The First Thanksgiving As Genocide

@Iroyalty

Ahh, I see. Yea I try not to be rude, sometimes it just comes out and other times; folks don't leave you much of a choice. Its common place on line; you know the deal.

I'm curious, you say you're a British man, and you're bringing this up. You know, British history and British treatment of the world. I don't know what to make of that. I'm digging for your point. You just want us to include this view of history in our books? Is that all? British "brutality or Imperialism" of sorts...

As the current generation of Britain, do you feel responsible at all for this "imperialism" or.. I mean. Because its curious to see someone demonize basically, themselves. I cant put my finger on that one. Are you emotionally attached to this subject?

reply to post by tsingtao


It's extremely relevant, we're basically saying that the British settlers didn't come to America and sit down with the Native Americans and smile and pass plates of corn on the cob to each other. It was just told that way to make the Pilgrims look like good guys. To be fair, there perhaps was a group of settlers who did make peace with a tribe of Indians and had thanksgiving with them (also thanksgiving actually originating in England, so that was not technically the first), however, the rest of America had a much more bloody story to tell in regards to the meeting of Natives and settlers.

reply to post by Nephalim


I'm emotionally attached to history and information, information should not be suppressed no matter the source. You say I am demonising myself, but my ancestors are not me. How would I know that forced Imperialism was a bad thing unless I had studied the brutal results of past attempts? Without the history to study, I could (perhaps) think that Imperialism could be successful at bringing peace, maybe a bad example but I feel like it makes my point. When you start picking the bits of history that makes your people look like saints and all others like thugs, then discard all information to the contrary... Do you not see the potential for corruption and abuse in that?

"He who controls the past, controls the future. He who controls the present, controls the past."

iRoyalty
reply to post by tsingtao

 

It's extremely relevant, we're basically saying that the British settlers didn't come to America and sit down with the Native Americans and smile and pass plates of corn on the cob to each other. It was just told that way to make the Pilgrims look like good guys. To be fair, there perhaps was a group of settlers who did make peace with a tribe of Indians and had thanksgiving with them (also thanksgiving actually originating in England, so that was not technically the first), however, the rest of America had a much more bloody story to tell in regards to the meeting of Natives and settlers.

ya, 120 yayhoo's come to take over?

lol, we are talking about the first thanksgiving, right? what year was that again? before or after the alamo?

ya, link to the engalish thanksgiving, relevent to what lincolon made a holiday, 150yrs ago.

you need to read some history. did you read what i wrote? about why they almost died?

iRoyalty
reply to post by Nephalim

 

I'm emotionally attached to history and information, information should not be suppressed no matter the source. You say I am demonising myself, but my ancestors are not me. How would I know that forced Imperialism was a bad thing unless I had studied the brutal results of past attempts? Without the history to study, I could (perhaps) think that Imperialism could be successful at bringing peace, maybe a bad example but I feel like it makes my point. When you start picking the bits of history that makes your people look like saints and all others like thugs, then discard all information to the contrary... Do you not see the potential for corruption and abuse in that?

"He who controls the past, controls the future. He who controls the present, controls the past."

So you're just after what you consider factual information in other words and want others to have the same information you have. I've read some of the information put up in that video.

You want me and my people to know the truth about how your people... came here and slaughtered my people. Just making sure I got that right.

Thanks for your time.

Nephalim
@Iroyalty

Ahh, I see. Yea I try not to be rude, sometimes it just comes out and other times; folks don't leave you much of a choice. Its common place on line; you know the deal.

I'm curious, you say you're a British man, and you're bringing this up. You know, British history and British treatment of the world. I don't know what to make of that. I'm digging for your point. You just want us to include this view of history in our books? Is that all? British "brutality or Imperialism" of sorts...

As the current generation of Britain, do you feel responsible at all for this "imperialism" or.. I mean. Because its curious to see someone demonize basically, themselves. I cant put my finger on that one. Are you emotionally attached to this subject?

edit on 30-11-2013 by Nephalim because: (no reason given)

Oh look, sly attempts to malign the "British". And when I say "British", I mean "English", since nobody in the recorded history of mankind has ever connected the Celts to the actions they both sanctioned and actioned as part of the UK.

So let's have at it. You, an American, are criticising English (under the guise of "British") history, whilst your country operates concentration camps, government sponsored kidnapping, uses drones to indiscriminately murder innocent bystanders in your "war on terror", destroyed the global economy, destroyed democracy in any state that elected leaders not hospitable to the US...

I really wouldn't go down that route.

reply to post by Nephalim


Are you Native Indian then? because if you're a white american then my people are your people, white Americans are the British settlers. I'm not saying we should be shouting from every rooftop that our ancestors made brutal humanitarian violations, but to completely remove it from the history classes in the states just seems wrong. All I'm getting at is we shouldn't shy away from learning about the dark side of our own history, we learn about Ghandi in Britain and he was famous for standing up to British brutality in India.

reply to post by Kinetik


Fine what would you rather me say? White man? Whats PC?

reply to post by tsingtao


Perhaps my knowledge on thanksgiving is a bit shot.. but wasn't the first thanksgiving when the pilgrims (British settlers) and the Native Indians sat down and shared food together??

Also are you referring to the battle of Alamo? That was against Mexicans? That 100% has zero relevance, why are you bringing that up?

reply to post by Nephalim


Screw PC man, neither of us are racist people. Still if I say British settlers then they are your ancestors too, don't forget your motherland you got emancipated but we're still related haha

reply to post by iRoyalty


No it wasn't and I'm not black.

Good luck with history folks.

Our family tradition has been to watch the movie 'Squanto' nearly every thanksgiving. It keeps us humble.

Screw white guilt bullcrap! If you want to commit self genocide, then by all means go on. But we shouldn't spend all our time trying to pander to everyone because of things our ancestors did.

Yes we did commit genocide it was called "Manifest Destiny" but we were buddies with the Indians in most cases at first.

reply to post by cavtrooper7


As above, so below. Humans are a conquered race.

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


No you're in error in 2010 Obama signed the UN Declaration for the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.

reply to post by awakehuman


A better set of films to watch is the 'We Shall Remain" PBS series.
it gives a better understand as to why the Natives first accepted and took under their wing, said pilgrims,


in my Native American circles, this event is commonly known as the beginning of King Phillips War and not Thanksgiving


Edit to add..

the whole First Thanksgiving story...
Yeah, it was made up. It was Abraham Lincoln who used the theme of Pilgrims and Indians eating happily together. He was trying to calm things down during the Civil War when people were divided. It was like a nice unity story.
kind of genius, in a way, to get people to sit down and eat dinner together. Families were divided during the Civil War.

As long as you don't look to closely at the historical facts right

Lingweenie
Well, Most native Indians didn't die due to genocide.

They died mostly by a pandemic.

Did the settlers mean to pass on diseases such as small pox? No they didn't.

Yeah, because those blankets had absolutely nothing to do with it, right?