Helicopter Crashes into Glasgow Pub

reply to post by revolutionaryawareness


???

Why would there need to be any kind of agenda at play because of the word used to describe something in an article.

Picture the scene: A small pub packed out with over 100 people. A helicopter crashes through the roof at speed caving the roof in on top of people then taking up a huge amount of floor space inside the pub (remember it's a very small pub). While I believe that the death toll will rise further, it is a miracle that the casualty list wasn't far, far greater. So any artcile using the word 'miracle' in it's description or headline is very apt in my opinion.

As to all these clowns banging on about agendas & faking crashes. My family knows 2 people who were inside at the time, 1 of which didn't make it out alive. FFS, have a bit of common decency at a time like this where people have lost loved ones & others waiting to see if their family/friends will be found alive or indeed get out of one of the hospitals!

Revisiting just to join with everyone else and express my sadness and best wishes to all those involved and affected. In light of some of the of the sentiments expressed; this particular Englishman's compassion for those caught in so tragic an event is not affected by which part of the UK the event took place in. I would also like to add my own regards to those members of the public and the emergency services that displayed such courage and compassion in such horrible circumstances.

It's just beyond silly to suggest this didn't happen or there was some secret agenda to it. Not everything is a conspiracy! That said what people don't seem to be doing is questioning all the police activity in our UK skies.
I used to work a night shift in Bradford and there was often a police 'copter overhead.
We are paying for this surveillance - we the UK citizenry are paying for police joyrides and our own surveillance.
There is a place for this sort of operation of course - such as air ambulance, search and rescue or maybe catching a dangerous criminal. But how much of this is standard surveillance? Why are we so accepting of it? Like all surveillance there is a debate to be had about its use and the ethics of it. But air surveillance over densely populated areas is an accident waiting to happen. No longer waiting in fact.
Condolences to all affected. The only positive thing about this was the way brave people stepped up to the mark to help.

Absolute tragedy! mates dad was meant to be heading there for a night out but ended up in the merchant city instead..such an iconic pub,billy connoly played in it years ago apparently the westboro Baptist church have commented saying this is for fag marriage on facebook a friend has just told me but I don't have facebook so cant confirm!!!

brianporter
So what is the theory at the moment for the cause of the crash?
I always thought that if the engine fails on a helicopter in most circumstances they can still be landed safely but if the main rotor fails or is damaged they drop like a stone. From what the eye witness described on the news it sounds more like the helicopter just dropped out of the sky which would suggest some kind of damage or failure to the main rotor.

Cant find footage of a real main rotor failure but this video of an R/C helicopter shows what happens when a main rotor fails.
www.youtube.com...

My condolences to the families of those that lost loved ones.

The specific cause may not be known for a few months.
They will have to go over any flight data they have and inspect the helicopter.
The fact that there was no fire is interesting.
I heard somewhere the pilot dumped the fuel but that's unconfirmed as far as I know.
There are a few possibilities, Lack of fuel or engine problem, or a mechanical problem with rotors or linkage.

A helicopter pilots reactions are determined by how much airspeed and Altitude they have when a problem arises.
If it's an severe engine problem they can perform what is called an "Auto Rotation".
The main rotor is disengaged form the engine and the pilot is basically trying to use the stored up kinetic energy in the main rotor to perform a controlled crash.
The pilot still has some control over direction but in a nut shell the helicopter is falling out of the sky.
In an auto rotation the main rotor is still spinning, but's it's just spinning freely.

If there was a problem with the tail rotor then things get a bit more complicated since the tail rotor counteracts the forces caused by the main rotor. At that point you really don't have any control. Similar to what happened in the the Movie "Black Hawk Down".

If they are flying very low there really isn't much time to react.

I've been in "Controlled" auto rotations in Huey's, and Hughes OH-6 helicopters and it still felt like crashing.

I'd just like to thank the mods at this point, for their assistance with quickly removing offensive posts from the thread.
I feel that there are still some posts here that are IMHO slightly questionable, but everyone is entitled to their opinion (so long as it doesn't breach the T&C) so,fair enough.

Back On Topic:
I'd like to reply to a couple of earlier posters if I may? (Please excuse that I haven't used the "QUOTE" feature for each comment - There were so many quotes that I wanted to reply to, I have just put quote marks on them to save space)

Loopdaloop:

"I think its very convenient that this occured on St Andrew's Day..."
I can see what you're implying there, but I can assure you that no one here feels that this tragic event was in any way "convenient".

"You have to admit it is convenient that Alex Salmond turned up and made that speech linking it to St Andrew's day..."
Again, no. You could see the pain on his face.
What would have been said if Alex Salmond had not turned up? There is no win here. And, he didn't "link" it to St.Andrews day - It WAS St.Andrews day.

"Word is that it could have been a 'drone' police helicopter. ..
...(twitter are saying it might have been a drone) ..."
It was not a drone, it was a Eurocopter EC135 T2 with a crew of 3 (2 police crew and 1 civilian pilot), it is the only police helicopter in Glasgow, and there are plenty of photos of it if you need more evidence.

"Alex Salmond has a lot to gain from this and is still getting repeated propaganda plays of his speech..."
Could you please explain what Alex Salmond has to gain from this? Do you mean publicity and the opportunity to make a speech?
He makes speeches every day, and is in the news up here every day, so there's no need for a tragedy to boost his profile.
I saw his speech on TV and it, in no way, promoted Salmonds Independence cause. It was compassionate and low key, thankful and full of praise for the emergency services and people of Glasgow.

"There is no need to degenerate to personal insults. ..."
Didn't you just personally insult Alex Salmond?

"I agree totally, Scotland does have that history (of faking crashes)..."
I'm sorry, but this statement needs immediate clarification.
You are saying that Scotland has a history of faking crashes, that is a terrible insult to throw at anyone, please prove it or retract the statement.
(And I don't mean prove that fake crashes happened in or over Scotland, I mean PROVE that SCOTLAND was RESPONSIBLE for faking crashes.)


revolutionaryawareness:
"Scotland does have a history of faking crashes - Pan Am Flight 103 and the '94 Royal Air Force helicopter crash..."
You are accusing SCOTLAND of faking these crashes? That statement could easily be interpreted as being racist.
Could you please provide proof that SCOTLAND did so, or retract those statements.

"Maybe the police went straight from the pub to the helicopter without a designated pilot?..."
I find it difficult to even begin to comprehend the crass, insensitive, and ill-informed thought processes that must have went into deciding that the on-duty police officers
and civilian pilot, of a police helicopter, may have been drinking in the pub before flying. Was this meant to be a joke? At least 8 people are dead here.
Please, please explain why you feel that it is appropriate to make a comment like this.

"CNN's current headline of the story is: At least 8 dead, but a 'miracle' more not killed.
What are they hinting at, by puting miracle in quotations?..."
I think someone already answered this point? It was a crowded Glasgow pub on a Friday night, and a helicopter crash caused the roof to cave in on the customers in the pub.
I would have expected many many more casualties, given the circumstances, and I find it quite appropriate that the word miracle was used in that context.

"If its due to crappy scottish helicopter parts or a drunk pilot then R.I.P to the victims..."
Another Ad-Hominem attack on Scotland?
Could you please provide a list of parts from the Eurocopter EC135 T2 which was involved in this crash, which were designed or manufactured in Scotland?
As far as I'm aware it is a German design which uses Canadian (Pratt & Whitney) engines?
And again, implying that the pilot was drunk??? Why? Because he's Scottish??
All of the information coming out in relation to the crash seems to point to a major mechanical failure, why would you imply that it was a drunken pilot?
It's such an insensitive, horrible and once again - potentially racist thing to say.
8 families have lost their loved ones, and many more lives are in the balance, can we please show at least a modicum of understanding and sensitivity.

Kinetik:
Thankfully all of their insensitive posts have been removed, so no comment required.

To one and all:
If you believe that there is a conspiracy here, then please investigate fully, and by all means share your findings.
The truth must come before all, and if you have FACTS or EVIDENCE relating to conspiracy then please do share.
But I would personally appreciate it if we could all refrain from prematurely throwing unsubstantiated accusations around at this very sensitive time for those directly involved.
This is a conspiracy focused website, but its motto is "Deny Ignorance" not "Promote Ignorance & Racism"

Many thanks to those of you, not directly affected, who have also taken the trouble to send besh wishes and condolences to the people of Glasgow.
We appreciate it so much.
There are already some Clutha benefit events being organised, to aid the bereaved families and those affected.
I will add the details here when I can.
regards
Gordi

Here's a link to the "Events For Charities" EFC events page on FB in support of the victims of the Air Crash at the Clutha Bar in Glasgow.

They are organising various concerts etc in the city in the New Year. (Have also heard that other towns/cities are wanting to do the same... THANK YOU Montrose!!! and others.)

LINK to EFC on FBook

regards,
GTD

reply to post by revolutionaryawareness

So is there no chance for conspiracy here?

Of course there's a chance, but at present there's nothing to suggest this is anything other than what it seems - a tragic accident.
Experts have been speculating over the cause of the crash, no-one has even remotely hinted at some sort of conspiracy and at this moment any such accusations are simply random hypotheses plucked out of thin air with absolutely no substance or supportive evidence whatsoever.

No one seems to be discussing it so I assume we all think its real.

At this moment in time that seems the most reasonable assumption.
I'm sure if after the official inquiry there are holes in the official story there will be people who will pick up on it and will no doubt make public their reasononing.

I think at present the priority is in providing care and support for the unfortunate victims of this tragic accident.

Scotland does have a history of faking crashes - Pan Am Flight 103 and the '94 Royal Air Force helicopter crash.

Do tell how these were 'fakes'.

And are you trying to say 'Scotland' is somehow complicit in these 'faked crashes'?

CNN chose to front page the story so we might as well bring it up as this is a conspiracy website.

Who gives a toss about CNN and I fail to follow your logic here.

If you have any evidence at all other than shear specualation please share it with us.

Maybe the police went straight from the pub to the helicopter without a designated pilot?

What on earth are you trying to imply here?

reply to post by revolutionaryawareness


Good grief, and there's more;

CNN's current headline of the story is: At least 8 dead, but a 'miracle' more not killed.

What are they hinting at, by puting miracle in quotations?

Probably that it wasn't a miracle in the literal sense - there was no divine intervention - but it's amazing that more people weren't killed given the circumstances surrounding the accident.

There is an agenda at play here. Its either an anti-religious campaign by turning a saints day into a day of mourning, or a political agenda stated by Loopdaloop.

Really?
And on what evidence or applied logic or reasoning do you make that claim?

Either way if anything fishy turns up about the helicopter crash, conspiracy theorists should be all over it.

I'm sure they will given time, if there's anything to suggest that there is a conspiracy angle.

If its due to crappy scottish helicopter parts or a drunk pilot then R.I.P to the victims.

That sentence just reeks of ignorance.

And if it isn't due to either of those ridiculous claims then what?

reply to post by revolutionaryawareness

CNN's current headline of the story is: At least 8 dead, but a 'miracle' more not killed
What are they hinting at, by puting miracle in quotations?

Because it was a quote from one of the witnesses , sometimes you need to read more than just the headline.

From a nearby parking deck, Smart watched the helicopter tumble into the bar and waited for an explosion and fireball. A blast might have killed hundreds in the busy area, Smart said. Instead, he said, there was an "eerie silence." "I think it's a miracle that more people didn't die," Smart told CNN
edition.cnn.com...

Anyway so.. at least five of the 'victims of conspiracy...'

Have been named.

Sorry to interrupt your little false flag party.

The Pilot was a veteran of Afghanistan and Iraq, he taught Englands Prince William how to fly a helicopter.

And the source for that (sorry) is this.

Another body was found last night.
That brings the total so far to 9 dead.
Police are still saying that there is a possibility of more victims being found when they raise the helicopter.

G

reply to post by Gordi The Drummer


I thought they raised the remains of the aircraft yesterday ? Still, I imagine they will have to sift the wreckage it's passage through the roof caused very carefully.

Fingers crossed for either no bodies or warm ones.

Helicopter was removed from the pub an hour or so ago, they are looking for more bodies inside. Total so far is 9.

More bodies may be trapped beneath the police helicopter that plunged into a busy pub, officials feared last night. Nine people are now known to have been killed – including the doomed aircraft’s civilian pilot and two police officers on board – while 32 pub-goers were injured. As the scale of Friday night’s disaster in Glasgow unfolded, investigators refused to rule out foul play as they examined possible causes of the crash, including whether the pilot was shot at or blinded by a ‘laser pen’.

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk...

Sky News..

The pilot of the police helicopter that plunged into Glasgow's Clutha pub killing nine people made no mayday call before the crash. Dave Miller, deputy chief inspector of the Air Accidents Investigation Branch, told reporters there was no explosion and no fire before the crash. There had also been no mayday call from the pilot, David Traill, a veteran of both Gulf wars. Nothing fell from the craft and the helicopter rotors were also intact, said Mr Miller. They were removed to help lift the shell from the pub roof. He said there was no 'black box' flight recorder on board but its does have a "significant number of modern electronic systems on board and it may be possible to recover details from those systems".

Just a quick question....does anybody know whether the blades were removed by the rescue services, or did they shear off on impact? Not being morbid, but in the initial photos I thought the blades were still attached, well those I could see.
Rainbows
Jane

reply to post by angelchemuel


I'm pretty sure the rescue services took them off last night, there seemed to be little scattered debris.

reply to post by beansidhe


The rotors were removed to make the lifting of the aircraft easier. They were intact when the helicopter crashed, and were still attached when rescuers showed up to deal with the situation.

reply to post by TrueBrit


Thanks Truebrit. I thought I'd heard that on the news, but when I put it in writing I started to doubt myself.
Thanks for clarifying x