Yes .. the Holy Spirit of the 'Trinity' is in Christian Scripture

This conversation came up elsewhere so I thought I'd start this ...
The Holy Spirit (also called The Paraclete) is God and is therefore part of the Trinity.
That's what Christian scripture says.


- The heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him. And behold a voice from heaven, saying: 'This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Matthew 3:16

- Going therefore, teach ye all nations: baptising them in the name of the father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost Matthew 28:19

- The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee. And therefore the HOly which shall be born of thee shall be called the son of God. Luke 1:35

- I will ask the Father, and he shall give you another Paraclete, that he may abide with you forever, the Spirit of truth. But the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things. John 14:16, 26.

- When the Paraclete cometh, whom I will send you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceedeth from the Father, He will give testimony of me. John 15:26

- Jesus being exalted therefore by the right hand of God, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath poured forth this which you see and hear. Acts 2:33

- The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the charity of God, and the communication of the Holy Ghost be with you all. 2 Corinthians 13:13

- Because you are sons, God hath sent the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying: Abba, Father. Gal 4:6

- By the Son we have access both in one Spirit to the Father. Eph 2:18

- I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, of whom all paternity in heaven and earth is named, that he would grant you, according to the riches of glory, to be strengthened by his Spirit with might unto the inward man. Eph 3:14

- To the elect, according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, unto the sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ, grace unto you and peace be multiplied. 1 Peter 1:2

- In this we know that we abide in him and he in us: because he hath given us his Spirit, and we have seen and do testify that the Father hath sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 1 John 4:13

- It is the Spirit which testifieth that Christ is the truth. For there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the WOrd, and the Holy Spirit. And these three are one. 1 John 5:7

- Praying in the HOly Ghost, keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ. Jude 20.

- They rested not day and night, saying: Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God Almighty, who was, and who is, and who is to come. Apocolypse 4:8 (the Trinity is thrice Holy )

THE HOLY GHOST - TRUE GOD

- Going therfore, teach ye all nations: baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Matthew 28:19

- Peter said: Ananias, why hath Satan tempted they heart, that thou shouldst lie to the Holy Ghost? Thou has not liked to men, but to God. Acts 5:3

- Know you not that your members are of God and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? But if any man violate the temple of God, him shall God destroy. For the temple of God is holy: which you are 1 Cor 3:16

- The holy men of God spoke, inspired by the Holy Ghost. 2 Peter 1:21

- At sundry times and in divers manners God spoke by the prophets. Heb 1:1

- Take heed to yourselves, and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops to rule the CHurch of God. Acts 20:28.

- When the Paraclete cometh, whom I will send you from the Father, who proceedth from teh Father, he will give testimony of me. John 25:26

- He (the Holy Spirit) shall glorify me: because he shall receive of mine and shall show it to you. John 16:14.

- He (Jesus) breathed on them, and said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. John 20:22.

EQUAL MISSIONS OF GOD THE FATHER, JESUS, HOLY SPIRIT

- WHat things soever the Father doth, these the SOn also doth in like manner. John 5:19

- When the fulness of time was come, God sent his Son. Gal 4:4

- Know you not that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you> 1 Cor 3:16

- My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. John 7:16

- When they shall deliver you up, take no thought how or what to speak, for it shall be given you that hour what to speak: for it is not you that speak, but the Spirit of your Father that speaketh in you. Matthew 10:19

- The Spirit himself giveth testimony to our spirit, that we are the sons of God. Roman 8:16

- Let the unction which you have received from him abide in you. And you have no need that any man teach you, but as his unction teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie. And as it hath taught you, abide in him. 1 John 2:27

reply to post by FlyersFan

An excellent catena, but how can you leave out that classic location 1 Corinthians ch2 vv9-11?
"No-one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.." etc.

If I can quote from my own thread on "the calling and the Spirit";

v11 We need to consider carefully how the Spirit acquires this knowledge.
It can be compared with the way that a man’s own spirit knows everything that a man knows.
For in just the same way (HOUTOS KAI) the Spirit knows everything that God knows.
Paul does not mean to say that the two relationships are identical; the Spirit of God is not to God exactly what a man’s spirit is to a man.
But the point is that the two relationships are as close. That is how the Spirit’s knowledge of God can be so complete.

This comparison makes it impossible for us to detach the Spirit from God, dismissing it as a “force” or an agent.
For your own spirit is not a force or an agent. Your spirit is you, and that is how your spirit knows what you know.
If the Spirit of God knows what God knows in the same way that your own spirit knows what you know, then the Spirit must be God.

DISRAELI
but how can you leave out that classic location 1 Corinthians ch2 vv9-11?
"No-one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.." etc.

I took from the 'Scripture by Topic' book. (ISBN 0-912141-51-4)
That quote is probably in a different section.
It's an excellent resource guide. I highly recommend it.

What is the real purpose of the thread? To prove trinity is true since Holy ghost is true? Logically the holy ghost can be true and trinity be untrue. But maybe the trinity is true and many are just miss understanding it including me.

To me the holy ghost is a reference to the holy spirit that is the chi/light/spiritual energy flow that flows thru your body connecting you to all that exists. When you have faith in things you can manifest better health with it(the placebo effect). Some people can manifest meetings of people they need to see to learn more. Some people can push the energy into others where there is a lack of energy. Some activate their third eye and notice things they have never understood of felt before and maybe even play around with low grade telepathy and become empaths.

LittleByLittle
What is the real purpose of the thread?

Already stated the purpose. The Holy Spirit not being in the bible as part of the Holy Trinity came up on another thread. So instead of that thread getting off topic, I started the subject in a thread of it's own.

To prove trinity is true since Holy ghost is true? Logically the holy ghost can be true and trinity be untrue.

The Holy Ghost/Paraclete/Holy Spirit is part of the Trinity. Scripture says so. I quoted it.
Take special note of 1 John that is in bold letters.
One God. Three Aspects ... Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

Side note - The Holy Ghost/Paraclete/Holy Spirit is NOT a living human person.
Scripture is very clear about that. I figured I'd add that before anyone tried to
claim it.

S & F FF.

The heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him. And behold a voice from heaven, saying: 'This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Matthew 3:16

Anyone who doesn't see the Trinity in that passage is either brainwashed or utterly clueless.

While the Doctrine of the Trinity postdates the events in the Bible by quite a bit, what its detractors (who use that temporal span as "evidence" that it is invalid,) fail to understand is that it was theology that was intended to explain passages such as Matthew 3:16, and the behaviour of the earliest Christians, including the Apostles, who worshipped Jesus as God. There is evidence, from the time of Christ, that the Trinity existed, we just didn't formulate what that really meant until later.

The New Testament authors didn't come up with the doctrine of the Trinity. To say so shows that you haven't done your research and study. Prior to the coming of Jesus it was normal to believe in the two powers in heaven now they don't because it would mean that they have to jump ship.

"The idea of the 2nd power was not considered heretical until the 2nd century CE." -- Segal, Two Powers in Heaven, pp. x-xi (Introduction)

You can watch the presentation here. Fasten your seat belt because you'll be in for a shock.

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by FlyersFan

Take special note of 1 John that is in bold letters.
One God. Three Aspects ... Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

You should also note that 1 John 5:7 is not found in any original greek texts... it was added at a later time

Don't you find it odd that in all of those verses not one says the "holy spirit" is equal with God... Not to mention the same goes for Jesus... who said himself that he was less then his Father?

People have struggled to explain the trinity for centuries.. and unfortunately the bible just doesn't teach a triune God

reply to post by Akragon

You should also note that 1 John 5:7 is not found in any original greek texts... it was added at a later time

That is a debatable point, with the crux of the debate being whether Tertullian, in Against Praxeas is quoting the passage, or just writing something similar. I honestly don't know, though I lean toward him quoting 1 John.

reply to post by adjensen


Even if that is the case he still lived over 100 years after the fact...

He Might have quoted 1 john... but again since there is no evidence of that passage being in any of the original texts its unlikely... Plus that still doesn't resolve the issue and fact that NONE of the apostles, or Jesus taught a trinity...

There is just nothing except verses here an there alluding to a triune God which has no support from the actual scriptures... Jesus said specifically he was less then his Father... and there isn't a single passage that states the "holy spirit" is equal to God either.

The fact remains... the trinity was fabricated well after the original teachers lived...

Even after Nicea... what was established was the Father and son being equal... the trinity doctrine wasn't firmly established until the next council (Constantinople)

Akragon
Don't you find it odd that in all of those verses not one says the "holy spirit" is equal with God...

It is permissable to understand things that are not explicitly stated.
For example, when Ko-ko says "We were married in front of the registrar" and Pooh-Bah says "I am the registrar", anybody in the audience is capable of grasping the point that the couple were married in front of Pooh-Bah, even though nobody in that dialogue actually SAYS so.

On the question of equality; any statement that identifies A and B necessarily makes them equal to each other. For example, anyone who says "Obama is the President" is also saying that Obama is equal to the President.
We have statements in the New Testament which have the effect of identifying the Holy Spirit as God, and so equal with God.
I will just take two from 1 Corinthians, which happens to be in my mind in recent weeks.

1 Corinthians ch3 v16; "You [ie you the local church] are God's Temple, and the Holy Spirit dwells in you".
The two halves of that verse, taken together, identify the Spirit as God.
a) The Holy Spirit lives in you
b) That makes you a place where God lives.

1 Corinthians ch2 vv11-12
"For what person knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him?
SO ALSO [HOUTOS KAI] no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God".
The whole point is that God and his Spirit are as close together as a man and his own spirit.
Is your own spirit not equal to you? Is it not yourself?

reply to post by DISRAELI


Yes I realise its "permissible" In Christianity... this I the whole problem... what is "allowed"... and what Scripture actually says...

Using that same argument... one could also state that we are also equal with God

John 10
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

Im sorry, but its just not there brother... There is NO evidence of a triune God being taught in the NT...

reply to post by Akragon

In other words, you refuse to believe that Ko-ko was married in front of Pooh-Bah, because the opera does not explicitly say so.

reply to post by DISRAELI


No... I believe I said the trinity is a fabrication...

Just because two entities are mentioned in the same verse as the word "God" does not mean all entities are God

reply to post by Akragon

If two otherwise identical statements have "God" in the first version and "The Spirit" in the second version, that identifies the two.

reply to post by DISRAELI


So again as I've stated... according to Jesus' words

We are also equal with God because he said "Ye are Gods"

that is simply an irrational argument...

If the scripture says so, must be right. Yes, the holy spirit is there because Theodosius I (379-395)
The Christian monarch who introduced the world to religious totalitarianism says so.

“Theodosius set fanatical mobs to bash down the pagan temples of the east and required all his subjects to believe the no less remarkable doctrine of the Trinity.” – Hugh Trevor Roper (The Rise of Christian Europe, 1966)

380

From his military headquarters in Macedonia Theodosius issues the Edict of Thessalonica compelling all Christians to adhere to the Catholic faith:

"It is our pleasure that all nations which are governed by our clemency and moderation should steadfastly adhere to the religion that was taught by St Peter to the Romans, which faithful tradition has preserved, and which is now professed by the pontiff Damasus, and by Peter, bishop of Alexandria, a man of apostolic holiness."

All other Christian sects are declared heretical.

381

Now ensconced in an imperial capital filled with doubters, Theodosius convenes a Council of Constantinople to proclaim that not only is Christ god – but that the Holy Spirit is god too!

The Roman world gets a triune god – three versions of nonsense rather than one.

Theodosius adopted a cowardly policy of ceding four fifths of Roman Armenia to the Persians (387). Having thus secured his rear and ‘barbarianised’ his legions, Theodosius used them to intervene in the 'religious politics' of the west, where Gratian had been deposed by another Spanish Catholic, his general Magnus Maximus. Gratian was executed in August 383 in Gaul, leaving his hapless 12-year-old half-brother Valentinian II taking instruction from Milan's city boss Bishop Ambrose. The bishop, wary of the rival Arian Christianity, widespread in the east and among the Gothic tribesmen, wrote a tract clarifying the new doctrine of the Trinity for the guidance and edification of the young prince,

It was ostensibly on behalf of Valentinian II, Theodosius used his mercenaries to bring to an end the reign of Maximus (388) using an army mainly composed of Goths, Huns and Alans at the battle of Aquileia.

"Such was the persecuting spirit of the laws of Theodosius, which were repeatedly enforced by his sons and grandsons, with the loud and unanimous applause of the Christian world." –Edward Gibbon (Decline and Fall)

Just a bit of facts from a different source. This way, everyone doesn't, have to take the scripture/writers word for it. Just my two penny's. Good day to all.


Sources:
Chris Scarre, Chronicle of the Roman Emperors (Thames & Hudson, 1995)
Robert Graves, Count Belisarius (London, 1938)
Arthur Ferrill, The Fall of the Roman Empire (Thames & Hudson, 1986)
Helen Ellerbe, The Dark Side of Christian History (Morningstar & Lark, 1995)
Richard Fletcher, The Conversion of Europe (Harper Collins, 1999)
Edward Gibbon, The Decline & Fall of the Roman Empire (1799)
Michael Grant, The Climax of Rome (Weidenfeld& Nicolson, 1996)
Michael Grant, Fall of the Roman Empire (Weidenfeld& Nicolson, 1996)
Robert Wilken, The Christians As the Romans Saw Them (Yale UP, 1984)
Robin Fox lane, Pagans & Christians (Viking, 1986)

reply to post by Akragon

I quoted two Corinthians passages.
Do you distinguish between your spirit and yourself as two unequal things? (ch2 vv10-11).

DISRAELI
reply to post by Akragon

 

I quoted two Corinthians passages.
Do you distinguish between your spirit and yourself as two unequal things? (ch2 vv10-11).

Depends on the context I suppose... Is the spirit equal to the flesh?

Is the spirit within the same as the self? IF so what of the flesh?

regardless of this line of thought... Jesus said specifically he is NOT equal to God.

So the equality of the Father, Son, and holy Ghost is incorrect unless one willing to call "the truth, the life, and the way" a liar...

reply to post by Akragon

Now you're getting into the whole Trinity doctrine.
As I understand the title of this thread, it was specifically about the Holy Spirit, so I will confine myself to that topic.