A god of war 'versus' the Father of Love and Service

reply to post by arpgme


Or revelation was a creation of John of Patmos... and not the direct word of Jesus as it claims

Its pretty obvious when you compare the gospels with revelation

reply to post by arpgme


Nonsense, the book of revealtion is not older than the Gospels it was written 20 - 30 years afterwards by John who wrote the Gospel of John. Its the same Jesus all right and his love ins VERY conditional in Matthew.

“Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few." (Mt 7:13–14)

"Few" sounds pretty darn conditional to me.

Is this unconditional love?

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves." (Mt 23:15)


How about this?


“You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?" (Mt 23:33)

reply to post by Bigwhammy

If you do not believe the book of Revelation then you have no basis to believe the Gospels, you can't just pick and choose and be consistent.

'Picking and choosing' in determining the powers of good and evil in the Bible is exactly what this thread is about. Recognizing the elements of distortion applied is Key.

Actions of evil below to outline the tyranny of this 'god' that Jesus is linked to in 'supporting' Biblically (with His Good Spirited Light teachings perverted to do so).

Mass murder, rape and pillage of the Midianites (adding arson and kidnapping to the list of offences) Numbers 31:7-18 NLT
"They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.

Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves."

The Revelation, also known as the Apocalypse, names John as its author (1:2, 4, 4, 22:8). John was a prophet (22:9) and a servant of Jesus Christ (1:1). The early church generally accepted the apostle John as author. Among those who accepted him were Justin, Irenaeus, Tertullian, and Origen.

Thomas D. Lea and David Alan Black, The New Testament: Its Background and Message, 2nd ed. (Nashville, TN: Broadman & Holman Publishers, 2003), 577.

Justin was a friend of Polycarp who was discipled by John the apostle, so we have testimony in a direct chain to the author that John the apostle wrote it.

reply to post by Bigwhammy


That is highly debatable... And the author is not the problem with revelation...

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

The very first verse of the book makes the claim that it was given by Jesus... And if one compares the actual words of Jesus written down by the authors of the gospels... its blatantly obvious Jesus was not the person speaking in revelation...

Which makes revelation nothing more then a story... written by a man who was in the end stages of his life.... perhaps even suffering from some form of dementia...

reply to post by PrimeLight


You think you can pass moral judgment on God. God ordered the killing of the Midianites. You think you are better than God? ...good luck with that. “I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak," (Mt 12:36)

Jesus said, “For judgment I came into this world, that those who do not see may see, and those who see may become blind.”(Jn 9:39)

Jesus is coming back to make war and it will make the Midianite slaughter look like a tea party.

“I will tell of the decree: The LORD said to me, “You are my Son; today I have begotten you. Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage, and the ends of the earth your possession. You shall break them with a rod of iron and dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.”(Ps 2:7–9)

“From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty.(Re 19:15)

reply to post by Akragon

Revelation 22:18-19 (KJV)
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Two things stand out within these verses regarding the scribing of Revelation. One being that the serious threats it contains reads very much like the ways of operation of the same tyrant OT lord, ruling as per usual with fear via delivered plagues and curses (and many other violent unholy behaviors).

Secondly it shows that the need to make such a threat was due to all the tinkering of 'holy' texts by man.

All the more reason then why none should simply lap up all Bible content as 'infallible'.

I am leaning that the 'divine' inspirations of Revelation are from the sources of the same Sumerian 'Anunnaki council' gods that supernaturally inspired many of the prophets and scribes of those times and times previous. They are more than aware of the galactic cycles, they know the functioning of the star systems and they too bear the power in their unholy wraths to inflict the self-fulfilling 'plagues and destruction's' they desire as they did in the days of Noach also.

reply to post by PrimeLight


Don't you find it ironic that the gospels are right in the middle of the book...

Surrounded on all sides by books of little to no use... And that most churches actually avoid discussions about the gospels... at least from what I've found

the truth is always hidden between the pages

Akragon
reply to post by PrimeLight

 

Don't you find it ironic that the gospels are right in the middle of the book...

Surrounded on all sides by books of little to no use... And that most churches actually avoid discussions about the gospels... at least from what I've found

the truth is always hidden between the pages

No use? What cave are you living in? I use them every single day... so do all real churches.

reply to post by Bigwhammy


Well Good for you.... IF you use them every day as you claim, you would also see that Jesus had nothing to do with most of the books...

And absolutely nothing to do with revelation...

And I happen to like my cave... thank you

It keeps me away from all you self loathing, fear promoting Christians who are praying for the world to end

Akragon
reply to post by PrimeLight

 

Don't you find it ironic that the gospels are right in the middle of the book...

Surrounded on all sides by books of little to no use... And that most churches actually avoid discussions about the gospels... at least from what I've found

the truth is always hidden between the pages

I recall pastors sweating profusely with my questions once upon a time when I ventured in their domains. I recognized that people regardless of what blind faith they adhered to, were for the most part afraid and without answers to the larger questions which were the most revealing of all.

I liken it to baby soothers because people use faith and apologetic's to soothe any true inquiries which are most profoundly apparent in their hypocrisy and contradictions but in so doing cause fear and insecurities, perhaps even terror.

As for me I never received a single intelligent answer to any of my questions and in fact I was made to feel alienated and more along the lines of a heretic for even questioning the most obvious contradictions.

There is truth inside those pages and the silver lining of it is always the signature of Love and service. Not fear, worship, inadequacies due to the fear of sins, not the maligned fear to question and use reason and our natural gauges within. We are forced and programmed to fear questioning and in this way enslaved inside the most diabolical agenda known to mankind here in this planet.

The ancient principalities of the air including the archons, annunaki, various factions from all the lower dimensions and the multitude of warring factions that are fighting over our bodies, souls, planet and reality have hijacked the planet and covered every angle of religion, government, science, education, media, medicine, new age philosophy, theosophy, metaphysics and on and on, so much so that the question is what haven't they hijacked?

It is difficult for me to ascribe these negative 'evil' maligned forces with specific names even historically on account of the fact that the names given are nothing more than terms to describe malevolent forces. In actuality we do not know their true names but know only that they are 'forces' that work against our own emancipation and escape.

If we are amnesiac towards our own history and origins how much more can we possibly know about the actual names of these 'dark forces' that seem to be trapped along side us here in this world/dimension?

reply to post by Bigwhammy

Jesus is coming back to make war and it will make the Midianite slaughter look like a tea party.

Most will be deceived to lack discernment of basic rights from wrongs, nor comprehend the workings of the Good Spirit, as is the designated plan of antichrist (that is a devious, cunning imitation of that which is holy).

You think you can pass moral judgment on God. God ordered the killing of the Midianites. You think you are better than God? ...good luck with that. “I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak," (Mt 12:36)

1 John 3:8 (KJV)
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he MIGHT destroy the works of the devil (in Leading others unto repentance from the unholy ways of the fallen 'gods' that for so long plagued mankind with falsehoods).

So is murder, rape, pillaging, kidnapping and arson sinful in your eyes? Where does this also place the commandment to men of 'thou shalt not murder'?

Bigwhammy
reply to post by PrimeLight

 

You think you can pass moral judgment on God. God ordered the killing of the Midianites. You think you are better than God? ...good luck with that. “I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak," (Mt 12:36)

Jesus said, “For judgment I came into this world, that those who do not see may see, and those who see may become blind.”(Jn 9:39)

Jesus is coming back to make war and it will make the Midianite slaughter look like a tea party.

“I will tell of the decree: The LORD said to me, “You are my Son; today I have begotten you. Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage, and the ends of the earth your possession. You shall break them with a rod of iron and dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.”(Ps 2:7–9)

“From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty.(Re 19:15)

If you desire to research the Sumerian history and compare it to everything in the OT you will discover the signature of the beings that made themselves 'gods' of this world. You will find the gods of the Annunaki and or the principalities of the air, a legion who claimed dominion upon this world and our humanity placed their 'interest' squarely in the center inside the great War of Old within what is this world/Universe.

There is indeed a war of the heavens that is coming here and is at our doorstep at this very moment. In the most real way this war has been here all along and has been stealing 'life/souls' from the beginning. Soon we shall see this manifestation and know that these 'gods' are not the true Benevolent Creator that is Omniscient and the Light that is Truth and the entirety of All that IS.

There is a difference between the realization of the truth and the true Emissary of Light which IS the Christ whom 'they' tried to usurp and when that didn't work 'they' tried to hijack His message, His Truth and His identity.

There are two world's fighting in what is known as The Word of God - one is the Truth and the other is the lie. The Lies which are many are what they will have you believing, that 'they' are your 'God'/'gods'.

Fear, trembling, division, war, worship and submission are their signatures.

That wasn't God. I am afraid that you have fallen for the deception of believing that the identity you speak of is not God but rather the entities whom have forced themselves upon us as our 'God's', (Enki, Enlil ei trapped forces of darkness etc). The true identity of our our Holy Father of All Creation that is Truly Divine is not in those pages but rather the warring 'gods' of old whom have taken over our planet and created our 'civilization' and dogmas.

The scripture that PL highlighted is one example of the Truth.....1 John 3:8....because the Bible is written in a form of 'code' as to it's true origins and we are to decipher the black and white squares, most of which has been subverted.

arpgme
reply to post by Bigwhammy

 

You say that if a person doesn't believe in The Book of Revelation then they can't believe in The Gospels. How did you come to this conclusion? The Book of Revelation is older than The Gospels and the Jesus there in Revelation who loves power and destruction and "opening the gates of hell" is NOT the same Jesus of The Gospels who was loving, turn-the-other-cheek, forgiving, perfectly loving (unconditionally loving).

Compare Matthew to The Book of Revelation, God seems to be of a complete different nature but we know that God is eternal and his Law lasts forever so he doesn't change.

So either Jesus lied saying God is life and eternal and the same and perfect raising people from the dead, or Jesus lied and The Book of Revelation is true where God wants revenge and the control and destruction of the entire planet.

If God the father in revelation is the same God throughout the old testament, then there is no "contradictions" for we see he clearly does not change. He's the creator of the universe, therefore as the owner he can wreck it if he wants. He spoke us into existence and gave us all clear commandments to follow so as the father he has the only right to cast harsh judgement for the time to come. His mercy, for the time being, continues, but only to see who will keep the faith, his commandments and does good deeds, and those who will choose otherwise, producing enough rope to hang themselves for the time of judgement as a result. You talk of God being a God of revenge, well the Bible does say that vengeance belongs to him in both the old & new testament, so yet again, no "contradictions". Sure, God is life and eternal and perfect, but the Bible does not say his mercy will endure forever, for everyone.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

8 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. - Matthew 24: 29 - 39

So here Jesus says that upon his return the sun and the moon shall be darkened and the stars will fall from heaven just like it says in Revelation before he pours out his wrath. In the bold text he states that the last days shall be as it was in the days of Noah. With everything that text may imply, we know that clearly God poured out his judgement on the earth after Noah entered the ark. Revelation says the same will happen in the last days, only his judgement will be far less forgiving. His judgment will come no matter how much you want to pick apart the Bible to convince yourself that it won't.

PSALM 89:5 The heavens proclaim your wonders, O Lord; the assembly of your holy ones proclaims your truth. 6 For who in the skies can compare with the Lord or who is like the Lord among the sons of God [beney 'elim]?

DEUTERONOMY 32:8 When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of men, he fixed the bounds of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God [beney 'elohim].

God, when He had made the whole world, and subjected things earthly to man, and arranged the heavenly elements for the increase of fruits and rotation of the seasons, and appointed this divine law – for these things also He evidently made for man – committed the care of men and of all things under heaven to angels whom He appointed over them. But the angels (rebel Annunaki factions) transgressed this appointment, and were captivated by love of women, and begat children who are those that are called demons; and besides, they afterwards subdued the human race to themselves, partly by magical writings, and partly by fears and punishments they occasioned, and partly by teaching them to offer sacrifices, and incense, and libations, of which things they stood in need after they enslaved by lustful passions; and among men they sowed murders, wars, adulteries, intemperate needs, and all wickedness. . . . (p. 363, vol. 1, The Ante-Nicene Fathers)

Corruptions to mankind via the fallen hosts of heaven
1 ENOCH 8:1 And Azazel taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals of the earth and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all 2 colouring tinctures. And there arose much godlessness, and they committed fornication, and they 3 were led astray, and became corrupt in all their ways. Semjaza taught enchantments, and root-cuttings, Armaros the resolving of enchantments, Baraqijal (taught) astrology, Kokabel the constellations, Ezeqeel the knowledge of the clouds, Araqiel the signs of the earth, Shamsiel the signs of the sun, and Sariel the course of the moon. And as men perished, they cried, and their cry went up to heaven . . .

JASHER 4:18 And their judges and rulers went to the daughters of men and took their wives by force from their husbands according to their choice, and the sons of men in those days took from the cattle of the earth, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and taught the mixture of animals of one species with the other, in order therewith to provoke the Lord; and God saw the whole earth and it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted its ways upon earth, all men and all animals. 19 And the Lord said, I will blot out man that I created from the face of the earth, yea from man to the birds of the air, together with cattle and beasts that are in the field . . .