I Suddenly Understood Something About Mary

As you all know, I am not Catholic and didn't grow up hearing about Marian traditions. So I am going to be a little undertooled in this area. So don't think I am saying anything negative about her, I would never do that. But last night I was watching a show about a priest describing several exorcisms he had seen. I know the Church has rules for these things and always investigate if it really is a possession or some other thing. They do investigate to rule out psychological or epileptic conditions that may really be the cause. But that's not what this thread is about fully, it is about what I saw in this episode that led me to what I understand.

I saw as the priest was telling the person to repeat the "Hail Mary" and it was cursing at that. Then I remembered that in the Bible, it talks about the woman clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet and that she went into the wilderness to give birth, and the dragon was very angry with her and wanted to kill the child. After seeing this possessed person curse Mary, I wondered why.

I also wondered why Holy Water burns. I don't understand that myself either, but apparently there must be something to it. I just don't know about that one.

But when I sat back and thought "She IS the mother of our Lord" then it only makes sense that those dark forces would not be happy that she gave birth to Jesus. I can see how this would be a war and she would be targetted. But the Catholic church seems to be the only one remembering her. So I think it is a shame this has happened to her. I think the most beautiful prayer is the Magnificat. So I want my Protestant brothers and sisters to read this and tell my why, if it is in your Bible, why don't we honor her as well?

My soul magnifies the Lord And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior; Because He has regarded the lowliness of His handmaid; For behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed; Because He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is His name; And His mercy is from generation to generation on those who fear Him. He has shown might with His arm, He has scattered the proud in the conceit of their heart. He has put down the mighty from their thrones, and has exalted the lowly. He has filled the hungry with good things, and the rich He has sent away empty. He has given help to Israel, his servant, mindful of His mercy Even as he spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to his posterity forever.

I know people will come on this thread and say she never existed, she isn't to be worshiped, you can't pray to her and all that...but even if we look at what the Bible says about her, where is the honor she is actually due? Why don't my Protestant brothers and sisters not call her blessed, even though our Bible says we should?

Let me point here to some things so important, first of all, she trusted God above all else and recognized God first. That's the humility she shows. And this verse she quotes is from Isaiah and we can see in this, how she taught Jesus. Let's not have a fight over whether she was a virgin or not, whether she had more children or not, that isn't important at this moment. What is important is whether or not we do honor her as the mother our our Lord. No, Protestants have made her a byword.

I am Protestant, so I can say this. I think it is a shame that we haven't called her blessed and don't really know much about her beyond the nativity story. Who cares her age? Does that matter in the big picture?

No, she is not salvation, but she was the means by which our salvation came into this world. I understand that now, and if I can recognize her, then maybe others will too. I would love to believe that when she died and went to heaven, her son hugged her again and said He loves her. Let's not diminish that relationship, thinking that He would be sooooo god-like that He could not hug His own mother. Let's make her human once again and see her for what she was, a good mother, chosen to bring salvation into this world. She taught Him in this earthly life to have compassion and mercy. Shouldn't she even be honored that little bit, even for that?

Well, it's not like she did anything; that is, any moreso than women generally do. It's not like she was supernatural in any way.

And that's disregarding that it's all borrowed mythology and fable anyway....

reply to post by WarminIndy


That was very well put and I am totally down with your OP. Thanks, Warminindy, I'm not catholic either but I love her too.

Yes ..Mary was truly blessed ...She wasn't all that pleased with our Lord when He stayed behind and she had to go back to look for Him ...Kids are kids and her's was a very special one to be sure ...The new testament does mention her a few times but the focus is always on her son Jesus ...I don't like how some religious denominations have put her on a pedestal seemingly above Jesus but I think the ones that do get the focus of the gospels away from Him to whoever and whatever they can ...sad but true ...peace

reply to post by WarminIndy

The problem, as so often, is that people feel the need to rush into one extreme in order to reject the opposite extreme.
The Protestant belief is that Roman Catholics have carried the honour to excess by giving her honour concerning things which are not true.
And therefore feel the need to disregard her altogether.
While Roman Catholics believe that Protestants are treating her with dishonour, and so they're unwilling to rein in anything that has been claimed on her behalf.
Nobody is interested in the middle ground, which would be that she should be entitled to a certain degree of honour, but that there is such a thing as the wrong kind of honour.

Ex_CT2
Well, it's not like she did anything; that is, any moreso than women generally do.

She watched her Son be cruelly murdered in front of her ... and she never lost faith in God while it was happening. She STOOD at the foot of the cross. I couldn't have done that ... I'd have lost my mind ...

It's not like she was supernatural in any way.

She is now. She's in Heaven and she's VERY active. I know ...

WarminIndy
Then I remembered that in the Bible, it talks about the woman clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet and that she went into the wilderness to give birth, and the dragon was very angry with her and wanted to kill the child. After seeing this possessed person curse Mary, I wondered why.

There you go. Mary is the Mother of God. She didn't generate his soul anymore than any other human mother generates the soul of her child. But Jesus, being God incarnate, means Mary is the Mother of Him ... God. (and Jesus being God Incarnate is the belief of the vast majority of Christians) She is the one person on Earth closest to Jesus. She was there from the moment of conception until he died on the cross and even afterwards. She never wavered. Of course the demons would hate her. This is why I have not abandoned my Rosary with the meditations on the life of Jesus and Mary ...

I've actually had people say to me .. 'how do I get to know Jesus better'.
I tell them ... ask His Mother to show you her Son. And she DOES.

Mary's words from scripture .... 'do whatever He tells you'.
Could there be any better advice, anywhere???

I always thought Mary was there with Him the entire way, from birth to death and when He rose. I know Magdalene was there, but I always thought the "other Mary" referenced was Mary, his mother.

Certainly, while we don't put Mary on a pedestal, I don't remember her being ignored in my protestant upbringing either. I knew she was there from beginning to end with her Son.

reply to post by WarminIndy

A beautiful belief and one I can whole heartedly second, weather protestant of catholic or orthodox or jewish or hindu or muslim she cares about us all and the hail Mary is to glorify god through his handmaiden and to ask her to pray for us to god her son and the father which she is in a unique position to do.

Most apparitions of the virgin Mary show her crying for the world and one of Jesus last words from the cross was to say to his beloved apostle whom was standing next to Mary (His BELOVED apostle as we should be or seek to emulate as he represented what christ wants his apostles - christians to be) and Jesus said to his apostle "BEHOLD YOUR MOTHER" thus making a last command to christians that we should honor his mother as ours as he took our mothers and fathers as his and took OUR PLACE ON THE CROSS to defeat our death and grant that we may be with him for ever, He then said to his mother MARY "WOMAN BEHOLD YOUR SON" and from that day the apostle took Jesus mother into his own home as his own mother.

The problem with most interpretations of protestantism is that they associate the virgin mary with what they see as idolaterous iconography and they reject more than just the pope, still the virgin mary undoubtedly still sees them as her children - WOMAN BEHOLD YOUR SON - without any distinction and there have been many faithful protestants whom have had visions of the virgin mary though you will not find them investigated or declared saint's, when she sees us she sees her sons suffering on the cross and remember his words and yes it does not matter if she lived a virgin or had more children as she was a virgin when she had christ and as our mother we should not argue that point but love her and honor her regardless as she is also the very epitome of what a christian woman should TRY to emulate, even being a virgin was neither here nor there though I truly believe she was when she bore christ into this world as it was a symbol of her purity and goodness and christs miraculous conception.

There are they whom claim asking her to pray for us is in error but they are hippocrits whom have not really read what they preach and as for the iconography it was allowed and there was even a war in the orthodox church that tore it apart over this issue called the iconoclasm, they icons were declared not idol but a form of writing for all that could not read and without there influence there would undoubtedly be less christians in the world today.

You know it makes us family as well.

God keep you safe and watch over yours.

Oh and do not take the atheist the wrong way as most are good but so self obsessed they have a pleasure in trying to destroy others faith, some even think they are helping but guess what there is someone whom prays for them weather they want it or not.

reply to post by LABTECH767


Labtech,

You said the most important thing "Son, behold thy mother" and "mother, behold thy son". That goes back to Cain and Abel, "Am I my brother's keeper?" Yes, we are.

He called out to His Father after making sure His mother was taken care of. That's a good son. Then His last words were "It is finished". Maybe she knew that if no one else accepted it, then His sacrifice was hers. Let's not forget that, it was her sacrifice as well.

Why should her sacrifice not be acceptable? In a way, didn't she also give the ultimate sacrifice of knowing her child would one day be there, she didn't know how or when, but when she accepted it, she knew the road ahead. That's like the mother who says "Lord, you give and you take away, but to you God, be all the glory". Sarah didn't sacrifice Isaac, Leah didn't sacrifice Judah, but Hannah consecrated Samuel. And yet, none of them did what Mary did. It was her sacrifice as well.

You said it best, Labtech. Son, behold thy mother.

Star and Flag!

To my mother and father ... I love you!

Sincerely TL

P.S. IMHO the Blessed Virgin Mary was the 2nd Eve just as Jesus was the 2nd Adam. Both are Father and Mother to us ALL if we think about it in the right frame of mind ie one that is not temporally limited.

@WarminIndy...... ''I think it is a shame that we haven't called her blessed'' .......................................................................... Its a shame indeed, because the bible EXPLICITLY teaches that God had blessed Mary (Luke 1:28) .......................................................................... On one hand the catholics who venerat Mary are accused of Mary worship and all sorts of other things (see : Chick tracts), and on the other hand the protestants generally refrain from honoring Mary, even in the way she is honored in the Bible,.. perhaps out of some fear that it might amount to 'Mary worship'. .......................................................................... Why not stick to what the bible says? 1) Mary was greatly blessed. 2) Mary gave birth to a son, who as first-born, was dedicated to God in the temple according to the law of Moses.... Like any other Israelite boy during Jesus' time.

LABTECH767
The problem with most interpretations of protestantism is that they associate the virgin mary with what they see as idolaterous iconography and they reject more than just the pope,

my church when I was young was Presbyterian, the daycare if you will...

Mary has always been the mother of Jesus, and we have a few more instances of Mary in the reformed bible too.

John 19

:25
Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.

:26
When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!

wasn't the disciple referenced here Magdalene?


I am not too knowledgeable, but as a protestant I do not agree with the notion that the pope is Gods voice on earth...

"The Just shall live by Faith" and the bible is the sole authority, the pope can not take Jesus' place.

I like Mary, she's cool... and interpret her a little differently from what I have read from other so far.

I am a simple man...

Mary is the mother of the word made flesh.

Mary is considered the spouse of the holy spirit

Mary is considered the queen of heaven and is close to God the father because of the good deed she did for him by allowing him to send his son to us on earth via her precious womb.

All of which makes her the spiritual mother of humanity.

Demons curse her because of her son that defeated death and the fact that if it weren't for her Jesus would not have power over them.

Mary is a unique human because of her son. But, it must always be remembered that without her son Jesus she would be a nobody.

reply to post by SisyphusRide


You have your answer in you statement, woman behold your son, though jesus once pointed out that there is no difference between a man and a woman in the resurrection he would definetly have said woman behold your daughter so no it was the apostle John of whom it speaks though he represented all the apostles and therefore all christians including mary magdelaine, I actually think that Dan Brown as well as being theologically opposed to christianity due to his religion is also a blasphemer though he will likely be forgiven his book has harmed a lot of people whom believed it was fact though he has since admited he made it up the snow ball keeps growing.

sk0rpi0n
@WarminIndy...... ''I think it is a shame that we haven't called her blessed'' .......................................................................... Its a shame indeed, because the bible EXPLICITLY teaches that God had blessed Mary (Luke 1:28) .......................................................................... On one hand the catholics who venerat Mary are accused of Mary worship and all sorts of other things (see : Chick tracts), and on the other hand the protestants generally refrain from honoring Mary, even in the way she is honored in the Bible,.. perhaps out of some fear that it might amount to 'Mary worship'. .......................................................................... Why not stick to what the bible says? 1) Mary was greatly blessed. 2) Mary gave birth to a son, who as first-born, was dedicated to God in the temple according to the law of Moses.... Like any other Israelite boy during Jesus' time.

Yes, but that little Israelite Jewish boy was more than just any other kid.

Even you know this.

sk0rpi0n
Like any other Israelite boy during Jesus' time.

NOT EXACTLY. Attempting once again to downplay Jesus?
The 'finding in the temple' shows Jesus was theologically brilliant .. not 'like any other Israelite boy'.
The priests of the temple allowed Him to sit with them. They treated him on equal footing.
That's not something 'every other Israelite boy' did.

Discussion on Finding Jesus in the Temple

"And it came to pass, that after three days they found Him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, hearing them, and asking them questions. And all that heard Him were astonished at His wisdom and His answers" (Luke 2: 46-47).

So after three days Mary and Joseph find our Lord in the Temple among the Doctors who were astonished at His wisdom. Shew!!! What a relief!!! They finally found Him!!! The Doctors were astonished at His wisdom. This is interesting. I believe this is another "tidbit" recorded in Scripture to help affirm our faith that Jesus is the Christ. This is a reminder to His parents and to us that this is not just a normal boy. Perhaps it is an implicit way of showing that Jesus is Himself the true Temple.

"And seeing Him, they wondered. And His mother said to Him: 'Son, why hast Thou done so to us? behold, Thy father and I have sought thee, sorrowing. And He said to them: "How is it that you sought Me? did you not know, that I must be about the things that are My Father's?" And they understood not the word that He spoke unto them. And He went down with them, and came to Nazareth: and was subject to them. And His mother kept all these words in her heart. And Jesus increased in wisdom, and age, and grace with God and men" (Luke 2: 48-52).

Finding of Jesus in the Temple - 5th Joyful Mystery of the Rosary

The Scriptures say that Jesus sat "among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers." (Luke 2:46-47)

I often say that "theology is simply philosophy with answers", and here I see this in action. The very Word, the Son of God Himself sits among the wise men with the answer, which is Himself. They are astounded by His questions and His answers, and their own wisdom becomes minute, nothing in the face of Wisdom itself, "the Wisdom, in, by and through whom all are wise who are wise"1.

reply to post by LABTECH767


yeah that book lol... I was like 'come on' watching the movie at some points... it was an adventure though. My relationship with Jesus predates this work by Dan Brown though, even if those two passages can be misconstrued.

Jesus loved them all and loves all, but Brown would seem to be trying to get the audience who is knowledgeable enough anyway to doubt Jesus' divinity.

it didn't work... but it probably generated quite a bit of interest and media sensation mind you. Sometimes it's not a bad thing, for those with a mind for learning or researching mystery.

sadly these are the tactics which must be used sometime... if it was 'back in the day' this tactic would have been employed in Sodom and Gomorrah possibly.

@FlyersFan.... ''NOT EXACTLY. Attempting once again to downplay Jesus?
The 'finding in the temple' shows Jesus was theologically brilliant ..'' .......................................................................... Nobody is downplaying Jesus' theological brilliance. I am just reading from the bible. Jesus was, like any other Israelite firstborn boy, dedicated to God in the temple... according to the law of Moses. Yes... the same Moses you know from the Old Testament,

sk0rpi0n
@FlyersFan.... ''NOT EXACTLY. Attempting once again to downplay Jesus?
The 'finding in the temple' shows Jesus was theologically brilliant ..'' .......................................................................... Nobody is downplaying Jesus' theological brilliance. I am just reading from the bible. Jesus was, like any other Israelite firstborn boy, dedicated to God in the temple... according to the law of Moses. Yes... the same Moses you know from the Old Testament,

edit on 22-11-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

Really?

Then why did the priest Simeon not say He was just another ordinary kind of Israelite baby?

But Simeon says a lot about this not-so-ordinary baby. Simeon, priest in the temple, says "I may die now for my eyes have seen the salvation of Israel". Not an average baby at all.