Should Christians judge God?

Should Christians judge God?

Many have read the scriptures and come away at the end with a poor impression of God’s morals. This judgement stands apart of their belief or non-belief in God and the bible God is rejected purely on moral grounds.

Many Christians on the other hand seem give God a pass and exonerate their God’s more outrageous and immoral actions. I myself have noticed that Christians have a double set of morals. One for God and another for man. They praise and adore God for the same actions that they condemn man for. I see this as Christians judging God incorrectly.

www.youtube.com...

I have been told on a number of occasions, only by Christians, ---- that inferior mind like our human minds cannot judge God and that we should not even try to judge God as his ways are not our ways, which flies in the face of ----- as above, so below. This indicates that the morality of God is the same as the morality of man and scriptures seem to agree.

Gen 3;22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

Is it good advice to not judge God as Christians say, --- or should God be judged?

Regards
DL

reply to post by Greatest I am


of course - the mere fact that " because god said " , is not only used as justification for pretty much anything - it brooks no question - SHOULD be regarded with grave scepticism

but all religions have this flaw - not just Christianity

and once you drag it down to " because the great leader said " - as inerrant dogma - you are truly screwed

Greatest I am
Should Christians judge God?

No, because God gets the ultimate "get out of jail free" card.
Its the claim that humans cannot possibly be as all-knowing as God, and cannot judge him due to not having access to the same information or knowledge of higher plans.
God moves in mysterious ways, as they say.

Its a wonderful escape clause. One that would never work for any other field of human experience:
eg. No Officer, although it may look as if I was breaking the law, you simply dont realise the full extent of my lawful behaviour.
eg. Although it may appear as if I did not win the lottery, you simply cannot understand the mysterious ways of my actually winning it.
eg. Mr Bank Manager, although it may appear at first glance that I have no money in my account, you simply cannot judge my account balance because you are a flawed human and cannot see the bigger picture of my massive fortune.

Or to misquote Hitler:
Although it may seem to you that I am cruel to certain groups of humans, you really cannot grasp the whole universal scheme, and actually realise how loving I am to everyone.

reply to post by Greatest I am


You are welcome to give examples of things God should be judged on.

Short and simple...

If you find yourself judging god then you may be judging yourself....

The god I call lord is above reproach and is better than me, as yours should be.

It's simple really, the real god is perfect....I assign no name to my lord for my lord is nameless and has many names.

When you meet The Lord "Your" God, may he,she,they be perfect...

It's always been about perspective.

Cheers.

reply to post by Greatest I am


Should Christians judge God?
against what?
man?
how cute,

xploder

Lucifer got his freewill...

so it is your decision to judge... but why judge the fact of truth.

Greatest I am
Should Christians judge God?

Many have read the scriptures and come away at the end with a poor impression of God’s morals. This judgement stands apart of their belief or non-belief in God and the bible God is rejected purely on moral grounds.

ok can you give us some examples please? I am interested in hearing a Christian's opinion about the New Testament.

how can one come away with a poor impression of 1-John?

Judgement is just a lack of understanding.

Cheesy459
Judgement is just a lack of understanding.

Yes but if you do not ask questions you cannot receive the answers? Seek and you shall find.

Even if the bible sometimes claim god is a bully that is from my point of view humans lack of understanding. In some way the bible is probably the most blasphemous slander on god ever created.

If god was a ego proud bully like in the OT then would god not hate all the people who believe that god is ego proud. Seems wiser too leave faith based religion all together and only think happy thoughts about god does it not?

But then from my point of view revelation is about chakras. And that is where faith ends and knowledge and experience takes over.

LittleByLittle

Cheesy459
Judgement is just a lack of understanding.

Yes but if you do not ask questions you cannot receive the answers? Seek and you shall find.

Even if the bible sometimes claim god is a bully that is from my point of view humans lack of understanding. In some way the bible is probably the most blasphemous slander on god ever created.

If god was a ego proud bully like in the OT then would god not hate all the people who believe that god is ego proud. Seems wiser too leave faith based religion all together and only think happy thoughts about god does it not?

But then from my point of view revelation is about chakras. And that is where faith ends and knowledge and experience takes over.

Much like the OP you make statements, yet give no examples. Perhaps you can give some.

reply to post by Greatest I am

It is not a question of judging God, but the questioning of an entity that claims to be one.

The 'god' of the old testament serves to reveal the very nature of the 'lying murdering father' that Jesus Christ informed the Pharisee/Sadducee clans of that worshiped his bloodletting ways in error, contrary to the Good Spirit that Sent Him. He was murdered by the 'chosen' of this god for His 'blasphemy'.

"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." John 8:44 KJV

Much has been maligned in the name of Truth, more than most faithful would be comfortable in acknowledging.

reply to post by Greatest I am


HAHA! That was an awesome video! Thanks for linking it. It deserves an embed!

reply to post by Treespeaker

The god I call lord is above reproach and is better than me, as yours should be.

I would hope your moral compass is not surpassed by a being that condones and even encourages rape, slavery, and murder. But hey! To each their own I suppose.

"The Bible may, indeed does, contain a warrant for trafficking in humans, for ethnic cleansing, for slavery, for bride-price, and for indiscriminate massacre, but we are not bound by any of it because it was put together by crude, uncultured human mammals." ~ Christopher Hitchens.

Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by Treespeaker

 

The god I call lord is above reproach and is better than me, as yours should be.

I would hope your moral compass is not surpassed by a being that condones and even encourages rape, slavery, and murder. But hey! To each their own I suppose.

"The Bible may, indeed does, contain a warrant for trafficking in humans, for ethnic cleansing, for slavery, for bride-price, and for indiscriminate massacre, but we are not bound by any of it because it was put together by crude, uncultured human mammals." ~ Christopher Hitchens.

edit on 21-11-2013 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)

List verses please so it can be discussed.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


I am wondering if you're working under the assumption I will be unable to provide them?? Meaning, is this truly the first you have heard of this moral objection towards the Biblical god and his bible? Are you not aware all of that is in the Bible and allegedly guided by the Creator's divine hand. Surely you've seen it numerous times. I'm inclined to believe you have but manage to forget or spin it.

Here are but a few examples from an ocean of them:

"If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through." ~Zechariah 13:3

^Murder on the grounds of simply religious disagreement. If a family ran their son through with a knife today on the grounds of nothing more than religious disagreement they would be in prison for manslaughter. Why? Because our sense of morality is more evolved now.

" If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her." ~Deuteronomy 22:28-29

^Rape. Condoned. Slavery. Condoned. The places in our modern world we deem civilized don't condone this.

" If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife." ~ Deuteronomy 22:23-24

^Not even being a married woman saved this rape victim from Biblical wrath! Death. Where you live would they put to death a rape victim because she didn't cry out loud enough? Or does the society you currently live in have a better ethical understanding?

reply to post by Greatest I am


Only after Christians acknowledge when the God in Genesis kept referring to Him as being a group of beings.

Also: The only thing, according to the same book, is our lack of taking of fruit from the tree of life that separates Him from Us?

We just need to do the right thing and love one another. Judgment will happen on its own with given Human interactions.

Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

I am wondering if you're working under the assumption I will be unable to provide them??

Meaning, is this truly the first you have heard of this moral objection towards the Biblical god and his bible? Are you not aware all of that is in the Bible and allegedly guided by the Creator's divine hand. Surely you've seen it numerous times. I'm inclined to believe you have but manage to forget or spin it.

Not at all. But simply saying things without providing discussion is pointless.

Here are but a few examples from an ocean of them:

"If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through." ~Zechariah 13:3

^Murder on the grounds of simply religious disagreement. If a family ran their son through with a knife today on the grounds of nothing more than religious disagreement they would be in prison for manslaughter. Why? Because our sense of morality is more evolved now.

Killing, not murder. Perhaps you should look up the two words and see the difference. The differences would take far more than a post to explain, and I 100% disagree it has anything to do with our morality being more evolved. It's manslaughter in our society because we have a different system. We allow people to create god to be whatever we want it to be. They did not. If you know the law and wilfully break it then you can not complain. Now let us assume that God is real, and He has given a certain message. Anyone teaching against that message leads people astray. Allowing it to continue is possibly the worst crime a person can committ.

"If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her." ~Deuteronomy 22:28-29

^Rape. Condoned. Slavery. Condoned. The places in our modern world we deem civilized don't condone this.

Not condoned. Apparently another word you need to look up the meaning. Their world was very different. Let's say the man was killed instead. Who will care for the woman? What about if there is a child? There's no federal government welfare and food stamps. What would be your solution? Which solution provides for the longterm needs of the woman? If we had our current society, the penalty would be very different I imagine, and it would include death for the man.

" If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife." ~ Deuteronomy 22:23-24

^Not even being a married woman saved this rape victim from Biblical wrath! Death. Where you live would they put to death a rape victim because she didn't cry out loud enough? Or is the society you currently live in have a better ethical understanding?

edit on 21-11-2013 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)

I don't see a rape victim here. I see a woman who had consentual sex while married. Much like others you love to quote part of the relevant information and not all of it.

Deu 22:25 But if out in the country a man happens to meet a young woman pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die.

Deu 22:26 Do nothing to the woman; she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders a neighbor,

It's quite clear that rape is not condoned. If it is, why is the man who rapes a married woman put to death?

Nowadays we let rapists go free to rape over and over again. Yet you say we have the better morals? There was a guy who raped a girl multiple times, starting when she was 14, and he got off on probation with NO jail time. Bible's solution sounds pretty good to me.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

It's manslaughter in our society because we have a different system.

Their world was very different.

Indeed. Quite different. Which was my point. Our 'system' is different. Its evolved. Our sense of compassion has grown. We have come far with our understanding of morality over the centuries. Thanks to great thinkers, and people willing to look beyond a book claiming to have authority on these matters.

Who will care for the woman? What about if there is a child? There's no federal government welfare and food stamps. What would be your solution? Which solution provides for the longterm needs of the woman?

Surely a being of infinite wisdom and infinite love could provide that so I don't need to!! Surely that being could have devised a strategy more ideal than killing the victim!! Surely that could have been included in that holy text then, during that time! Surely.

Allowing it to continue is possibly the worst crime a person can commit.

How does that make said god immune from moral scrutiny? Sure lets pretend god is real and god has a message and we need to follow it or we will be punished and or not rewarded. Not killing that 'false prophet' and so not following god's will could be the worst crime under that beings law. Why is that law immune from scrutiny? It seems the implication is morality is the sole domain of religion. That in of itself is morally reprehensible to me.

Yet you say we have the better morals?

We so obviously do. Perfect no. Of course not. Better now? Absolutely. To deny that is intellectual dishonesty on your part. Or cognitive dissonance created as a defense mechanism to justify your religious belief.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

It's quite clear that rape is not condoned. If it is, why is the man who rapes a married woman put to death?

You are right I misspoke on that particular passage. I have a pertinent question. Why did you sidestep the previous verse I used which quite clearly DOES condone it?

Here it is again.

" If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her." ~Deuteronomy 22:28-29

The man's only punishment for RAPE is fifty silver pieces. The rape victim's reward is forced marriage. Please elaborate on how that's morally okay because of the times. Realizing of course that the being behind this book is timeless Omnibenevolent and omniscient, yet during this time the most moral solution was to not punish the rapist and punish the victim. You can justify this with religious spin my friend, but I don't give any credence to these holy texts. I measure them with a yardstick that transcends the bounds of dogma.