How Does Going to Hell Look Like?

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Show me one piece of scripture in the Bible indicating that Satan will be “in charge” of hell.

It's a myth.

reply to post by RevelationGeneration


I believe that he defeated death by never dying at all, not quite, and even later when he would have dropped his physical, earthly body, and then proceeded to confront Saul on the Road to Damascus from the abode of light proving the resurrection beyond any doubt.

What matters is what he did and what he accomplished, and his love and his obedience to that will of God which is the will to love.

He himself was none too pleased though with strict, doctrinal, religion or the letter of the law that kills and devours.

He was interested in the spirit that gives life, and the love between people and God and between one another which sustains it even into heaven.

There are some among us, who would forsake his love for strict doctrine, and the only reason for that is because they don't have his love in them to begin with. It's the same issue he had with the Scribes and Pharisees.

History often repeats itself and there are some things that never change.

Jesus is the (nondual) tree of life, not the knowledge of the duality of good and evil, and his is an all-inclusive open invitation to enjoy God's love.

By being stuck on your own narrow interpretation of scripture and of doctrine, which Paul needed to hold firm on to hold the early church together, you may have missed the love of God in Jesus Christ himself and oh what a terrible tragedy that would be.

For example, are Catholics, in your opinion, going to hell for not having the right doctrine?

Would you cry if you ever discovered that you've been terribly mistaken about the nature of our Lord and his mission and intent..?

How can a heart be broken which is convinced that it's right and grid round by righteousness, when in truth it lacks the most essential ingredient? What a terrible predicament, I pray that God helps you to see the truth of his love and light.

God Bless, (i mean it),

NAM aka BOb

reply to post by RevelationGeneration


You sound like Joyce Meyer who claims that Jesus reigns IN hell and went to hell.

But from what I can tell, it would appear that he fully accomplished this from the cross, on the surface.

Although according to C.S. Lewis, his message was preached to hell and there isn't a single person who will end up in hell unaware of the truth capable of saving them from it.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


How can someone be resurrected if they never really died?

You cannot have a burial and resurrection unless someone physically died.

Scripture says if you deny any part of those three things then you are antichrist and the truth is not in you.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Like I thought you cannot show any scripture indicating that Satan will be “in charge” of hell.

It would seem you are making up your theology as you go along.

reply to post by RevelationGeneration


He had the authority to lay down his life, and, the authority to take it back up again.

He did EVERYTHING that was required, and the ritual and prophecy holds together and is meaningful, and functional. Jesus even lives on in heaven even now.

Paul said those things to keep people in line and to hold the church together.

What difference does it make to you if I think that Jesus might have retained a very very light heartbeat.

It's just as great a triumph from this POV, as well as ours, and it allows for the unbeliever to see and recognize something that might never have occurred to them before, drawing them closer to Jesus.

You can't force people to hold to a very specific and narrow doctrine under threat of hell, there's no love in that at all.

Why can't you rejoice that I love the Lord?

Your need to be right places you in grave jeopardy, even as it relates to large swaths of the body of Christ of which I am a part, whether you believe it or like it or not.

RevelationGeneration
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

Like I thought you cannot show any scripture indicating that Satan will be “in charge” of hell.

It would seem you are making up your theology as you go along.

I dont recall seeing you provide scriptural evidence that Jesus does.

All I see is a pot calling a kettle black.

RevelationGeneration
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

Like I thought you cannot show any scripture indicating that Satan will be “in charge” of hell.

Nice try, but the burden is on your to provide scripture to show that he IS, that he reigns over it.

I already know that he has all power, even the power to open up hell and allow a saved soul to leave.

But I didn't know that he presides over it in some way, with no satan.

I was just asking for you to back up your assertion with the accompanying scripture.

reply to post by OneManArmy


It should be interesting to see what he provides to support his strange claim about Jesus' relationship to hell.

There's something "off" about this particular Christian. If I could break his heart to let in the Love of God, I would do it in a heartbeat.

reply to post by RevelationGeneration

Paul taught the concept of future wrath in Romans 1:18 Romans 2:4-5

I think that those verses are connected to a hell.
It seems to me that Paul felt that the natural sinful man was prone toward separating themselves from the righteous God and to creating fake gods who are OK with their lifestyles,
the problem with that being that the idols have no power to save them from hell, and so they are lost.

reply to post by OneManArmy

Lol I thought the accusations of heresy died with the Spanish Inquisition.
Obviously not.

In the Bible it was used to describe people causing social disorder in the church by creating dissension with opposing parties.
Athanasius the former Bishop of Alexandria made the term "heretic" what it is today by creating his own party and destroying anyone not in it (while classifying them as heretics), so really, according to the Biblical meaning, he was the ultimate heretic.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Which do you think is more important, more vital. Biblical doctrine, or the love of God in Jesus Christ? (who we would not be aware of if not for the Bible, I have to add that out of fairness).

reply to post by NewAgeMan

NewAgeMan
reply to post by RevelationGeneration

 

I believe that he defeated death by never dying at all, not quite,

Then you are not saved as you refuse to believe that he died on the cross for your Sins.

Jesus says "But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 10:33

You deny Him.

NewAgeMan
What difference does it make to you if I think that Jesus might have retained a very very light heartbeat.

It makes the world of difference. You deny Him by denying his physical death, the muslims do the same. God the Father required a blood sacrifice to pay our sin debt. If Jesus never really died then we are still in our sins and are separated from God.

The roman soldier even pierced His side after He died to fully make sure. Nobody survives a roman crucifixion.

John 19:34 - But one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and at once there came out blood and water.

His body was physically destroyed even before that. I don't know which gospel your reading but it's not one of the 4 gospels in the new testament. Perhaps you have been reading the quran and believe mohammeds lies instead.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Satan rules over hell: False

In the BIble, Satan is tortured in hell. Hell was made for the fallen, which Satan is. He won't be ruling. He will be suffering alongside everyone else.

Currently He rules earth. John 12:31, 14:30, 2 Cor. 4:4. That includes human politics as the Bible says he choses the kings or rulers and gives power to whom he wills. Luke 4:5-8. He also rules over false religion. John 8:44, 2 Cor. 11: NIV 13 For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

RG: You deny what Christ taught himself. That is enough for me.
Laz: No, I deny what YOU think Christ taught Himself. That is not good enough.

RG: IF you really believe then you are a heretic, as you deny central biblical doctrines.
Laz: Having read some of Fox's Book of Martyrs, I know that the Heretics of any age are often ahead of the curve. I shall wear the label with gladness.


RG: We have doctrine for a reason, so damnable heresies don't enter the church.
Laz: Love trumps doctrine. The real reason for doctrine is for us to understand and draw nigh unto God, who leaves the ninety and nine to seek the lost one.


RG: Hell does not elevate satan in anyway. Hell is ruled by Jesus.
Laz: Why the hell would Jesus want to rule such a place? God is love.


RG: Paul taught the concept of future wrath in Romans 1:18 Romans 2:4-5
Laz: I went back and re-read them. It may just be the version I have at hand (FFV), but there is no mention of Hell. What is God's displeasure/punishment spoken of then? It is the burning away of the wood, hay, and stubble of the wicked in the Lake of Fire. Remember that the LoF is not Hell - it is the Second Death, even the KJV says so. The wicked will suffer loss, but will be saved as through fire (God is a consuming fire, a refining fire).


RG: That tells me you have created a false God to your liking in your mind which is idolatry. You deny Hell because you love your sin and don't want to repent from it.
Laz: Correct, to believe a false God is idolatry. Let's take a look at my God, Kinsman, and Savior:

God made a universe, and called it and all in it to be very good.
God made a Plan from the foundation of the world, to give His Own Son as a payment for sin (too simple, I know).
God revealed Himself to a certain people, and took them as His own.
God denounced the sins of this people, including their sin of sending sons & daughters through the fire to a pagan entity, whose very name God forbade us to speak. He told them that doing such a thing had NEVER ENTERED HIS MIND. Got that? Burning people in a fire had never occurred to our perfectly righteous God!
God later sent His Own Son into the world, as a matter of Justice, Mercy, and Love.
At the right time, God will come to set up His Stone Kingdom, at the last trump, the trumpet of the Great Jubilee, in which all who are in bondage will go free to their inheritance, and all debts/sins are forgiven. Most call it the Second Coming.
Later still, Death and the Grave (not Hell) are cast into the Lake of Fire. After that, NO ONE can still be dead and in the grave, much less in Hell.

As to my denying Hell because I love my sin and don't want to repent, dude, how do you know that? Is assigning bad things to me the best you can do in the way of argument? I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition!


RG: The doctrine of wrath and judgment against sin actually magnifies the grace of God. After all there is no need for salvation unless there is a real danger
Laz: Real danger? Yes, but what is that danger? If it is Hell, and Jesus rules over it, then Jesus is a real danger. Do you begin to see the can of worms the Hell theology opens up?

reply to post by RevelationGeneration


That's not true because the world savior took upon himself the whole weight of all the sins of the world and shed blood while entirely obedient to the point of death, I do not deny him. His blood is just as good for clensing my sins, and his great love, no less by any means.

It's what he held in reserve, for us all, on the other side of all the sorrow and suffering and madness, that's what matters most.

Some things can never die, they live again, and foreverafter.

All I'm saying is that he didn't get "beamed straight up" or lifted up until he was nothing but a small dot before disappearing in a cloud, but that he went on into the heavenly life both on earth and in heaven above, wherefrom he confronted Saul on the Road to Damascus about 35 years later.

It's an absolute TRIUMPH, you have no idea...

But as to paying the ransom I say that he paid it in FULL and then some.

He paid the price.

So if he was spared death at the last instant, like Isaac, or spit back out of the belly of the beast three days later, like Jonah, what's that to you, why would it matter.

If Jesus couldn't be killed entirely back then, why the need to make sure he was dead as a doornail, now. His absolute triumph is no less, not one iota, and neither is the believability that Jesus portrayed something of the most extraordinary significance and implication, right across the board and the entire full body spectrum of all being and becoming, then now and forevermore. I amounts to the same thing, the same act of love by the one who bore the sins of the world, the REAL lamb of God. One everyone can believe in and follow, even into the resurrected life by having the same courage that Jesus had, which included, on the other side of the cross and tomb, the courage to be truly happy and to generate the domain of heaven BOTH on earth AND in heaven above. It's the whole measure, the whole joy, the whole of the liberation for the sake of truth and righteousness.

You may not understand, but others surely do.

Best Regards,

Your friend.

NAM aka Bob

He had the authority both to lay down his life, which he did, and, take it back up again which he also did.

He laid down his life no less, obedient to the will of God to the point of death, one can ask for no more or need not.

He took the full weight, and carried it, until no weight at all remained upon his back and then for the sake of everything that's worthwhile and good in this life, after an immaculate and miraculous healing, in three days (rebuilt the temple), he walked on.

It's incredible! Awesome, the kind of thing you can almost celebrate and can do so, right along with him, in mutual joy and celebration, thus completing his circle of joy, in us, with us in him, happy, complete, satisfied.

The magnitude of what was accomplished is no less great, but it's even better this story, when we KNOW that indeed the camel really did pass through the eye of a needle!

Plus, if he died as dead as a doornail as in dead and gone, then he wouldn't still be with us now, today, would he?

Therefore he did conquer death, by never dying, ever.

And his body now, is a body of light. There are no more bones, and no one need make any bones about it.

We came here to ATS to learn something new, something top secret, about a conspiracy of some kind well this one is the holy grail, quite literally, and that grail now is you whoever receives the joy and love and wisdom that he offers, now in spirit, and soon in person, as a being of light and love the likes of which we could never have imagined for the life of us and not in a million years.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


This is the language of an unbeliever. To reject His death at the Crucifixion is also to reject the Resurrection and to deny Him.

Jesus went to the cross and died willingly, his body was physically dead. Jesus was killed entirely and His body was covered in seventy-five pounds of herbs in accordance with Jewish burial customs and the tomb was closed, after 3 days He rose again and defeated death. It was on the cross when Jesus died, that the wrath of God was fully satisfied and our sin was paid.

Nothing I say will convince you, as you have not yet believed in the one who has died for our sins.

I will pray for you but I am not going to respond to you anymore as I have not come here to have debates with the unsaved as the Bible say's to not cast pearls before swine.

You think you have something but all you have is a spirit of antichrist and pride. You have been spreading falsehoods on ATS for some time now but you have finally been rebuked. You don't like this but you know you are guilty in your conscience. Just one last thing, the santa hat isn't fooling anyone, the plain mockery is obvious to all.

Plus, if he died as dead as a doornail as in dead and gone, then he wouldn't still be with us now, today, would he?

It was not called a miracle for nothing.

It makes no difference to me at all whether he died as dead as a doornail or made it through by a mere thread

That's because you are a lost man. If Jesus didn't die then He deceived the world by pretending to be dead and we are still in our sins.


Job 15:6 Your own mouth condemns you, not mine; your own lips testify against you

RevelationGeneration
reply to post by NewAgeMan

Jesus was killed entirely for 3 days until His Resurrection. On the cross when Jesus died, the wrath of God was satisfied.

Unless the temple was being rebuilt, during those three days.

Same body, legs intact. Three days, rebuilt. Out of the tomb, a new man, and a new day, beyond the box yet not without remaining entirely obedient all the way down the line even to the point of death, the work completed, the liberated life stretching as far as the eye can see and them some..

This is not a denial or the talk of the unbeliever.

He conquered over death itself by never really dying, and for creating a place for us all both on earth and in heaven above, it's the whole thing, not just the half of him, but the whole of it all including the triumph, the celebration and the joy.

It makes no difference to me at all whether he died as dead as a doornail or made it through by a mere thread, and maybe the wrath of God might have been satisfied in another way not by your expectation, and perhaps it might have stopped just short of where you would want it to be.. or expect it to be.


Thanks for the invitation, and the prayers (likewise) all the very best,

NAM

reply to post by NewAgeMan

Which do you think is more important, more vital. Biblical doctrine, or the love of God in Jesus Christ? (who we would not be aware of if not for the Bible, I have to add that out of fairness).

I don't know what you mean.
I was talking about the meaning of the word heretic as used in the Bible.
Athanasius was the one who turned that word into meaning something else to use as a tool to further his political ambitions.
I think we should use it the way the Bible did (creating hostile schisms in the church) and not as Athanasius used it (someone who held an "unorthodox" view).
Then the word wouldn't have that much opportunity to be used on this forum.
Just having a difference of opinion may have been the origin of the word but through usage over so many hundreds of years it has taken another connotation of damnable blasphemy.
What Athanasius did was to take his position as Bishop in order to make his own decisions on controversial questions on theology, and then to outlaw any other opinion than his own.
His doing that didn't solve any problems in the church but instead forced these otherwise trivial matters into life and death situations where it was imperative to create parties to join the fray to save your soul from excommunication, once it was established as am accepted fact that the head of the church had that power over individuals or entire groups.