Drones are BAD, TERRIBLE things!

reply to post by muzzleflash


You can jam the radios of police right now If you really wanted to.

Also drones aren't easily hacked, I assume your talking about what happened in Iran, they spoofed the GPS signal so at no point did they hack the actual UAV.

You can hack the video feeds quite easily, but then there's not a great deal you can do with that anyway.

reply to post by Asktheanimals


How much more bold can they be? Specifically what can they do that a police chopper can't?

Irrespective of whether you shoot down a police chopper with a human or a drone with no one in it your still going to jail for a long time at the very least.

Also they wouldn't be sitting there on their phones texting as the console would be considered a secret/top secret area ie. no phones allowed..

Stealthbomber
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

"It was autopilot"

Wow ok, I thought it was common knowledge that nearly all planes have an autopilot? Yes even ones with props can have an autopilot.

Do you know how I know it wasn't a drone though? Because drones flying over the US need a chase plane to be within visual range at all times so unless there was another plane up
There with it flying the same circles I'd say it was most likely a normal plane using up a bit of fuel before landing. You just chuck on the autopilot and it flys in a circle for you, you didn't think that pilots just kept turning the yoke when they're in holding patterns did you?

Why would it loiter for 4 hours over an air zone that was mostly empty ?

Google "Drones Austin", there are news stories on Drones being flown here often for countless reasons. It's totally commonplace now it would seem.

Also check out this story where students Hacked a Predator, story from Nov 1st.

But seriously Google around. The odds of it being a drone are exceptionally high considering how many are around here currently.

“Spoofing a GPS receiver on a UAV is just another way of hijacking a plane,” Humphreys told Fox.

“In five or ten years you have 30,000 drones in the airspace, each one of these could be a potential missile used against us.”

“What if you could take down one of these drones delivering FedEx packages and use that as your missile?” Humphreys asks. “That’s the same mentality the 9-11 attackers had.”

reply to post by Stealthbomber


Read the link I posted above, it's from this month, so very recent development.

About hacking the Predator here in Austin to win the 1000$ challenge.

I think this is a good read about what drone pilots actually do.

www.cracked.com...

They are service members like any other doing what they are instructed to do by their superiors.
And as far as killer drones go, I don't think there is a drone out there or in development that make an autonomous decision to kill. It is either being directed to a preset target by a human or a human is remotely piloting the craft and has been directed to pull the trigger.
If the drones weren't where the are then a actual service member would have to be there in harms way.

reply to post by muzzleflash

During the spoofing demonstration at White Sands, the research team took control of a hovering UAV from about a kilometer away. Next year, they plan to perform a similar demonstration on a moving UAV from 10 kilometers away.

It'll be a be different when they try and take over one that's moving.

Also the military is going to be launching their own GPS soon, let's see them try and hack that.

muzzleflash
You can Hack into a Drone and take over it's Controls.
How else does the Govt control the Drone? That's how you can gain control.
All wireless.

The only "hacking" of any UAV has been to spoof the GPS and cause it to think it was somewhere else. There has not been a total take over of one yet.

reply to post by Sammamishman


I read that a few weeks ago, it was one of the reasons I wrote this thread actually. That and because some people think drones are magical are can do all sorts of crazy stuff lol

muzzleflash

Stealthbomber
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

"It was autopilot"

Wow ok, I thought it was common knowledge that nearly all planes have an autopilot? Yes even ones with props can have an autopilot.

Do you know how I know it wasn't a drone though? Because drones flying over the US need a chase plane to be within visual range at all times so unless there was another plane up
There with it flying the same circles I'd say it was most likely a normal plane using up a bit of fuel before landing. You just chuck on the autopilot and it flys in a circle for you, you didn't think that pilots just kept turning the yoke when they're in holding patterns did you?

Why would it loiter for 4 hours over an air zone that was mostly empty ?

Google "Drones Austin", there are news stories on Drones being flown here often for countless reasons. It's totally commonplace now it would seem.

Also check out this story where students Hacked a Predator, story from Nov 1st.

But seriously Google around. The odds of it being a drone are exceptionally high considering how many are around here currently.

“Spoofing a GPS receiver on a UAV is just another way of hijacking a plane,” Humphreys told Fox.

“In five or ten years you have 30,000 drones in the airspace, each one of these could be a potential missile used against us.”

“What if you could take down one of these drones delivering FedEx packages and use that as your missile?” Humphreys asks. “That’s the same mentality the 9-11 attackers had.”

"Why would it loiter over an air zone that's mostly empty? "

Might be due to the fact that plane have a tendency to fall out of the sky when they hit other planes?

reply to post by Stealthbomber


I haven't got much to place in front of the firing squad here, other than to say that people in these threads seem to be overglamourizing what it is pilots do. The opposition seems to be against the relative ease with which a drone pilot can survey, target, and deploy munitions against whoever they want. The impersonality of this style of warfare also seems to come under fire. But why is this any different from manned aircraft?

We have had standoff munitions for over a century now. Look up any of the videos of AH-65s, F16s, or your favorite manned aircraft in Afghanistan as they deploy weapons. These are not men in Sopwith Camels risking life and limb on strafing runs deep behind enemy lines, and coming back a victorious hero. They are soldiers identifying targets on a screen using any optical filter they like, selecting their munitions, pressing the button, and watching the Time-to-Intercept tick down to zero. Does anyone remember the news footage during the first week of the Iraq War? Those B-2 bombers you saw were operated by men looking at screens, and pressing the button to drop as many of the bombs on board as necessary. This is the way warfare is done in the Information Age. The only difference between a drone and a manned aircraft is that if something goes wrong, your operator doesn't die, become a POW, or require CSAR.

reply to post by Darkpr0


Exactly right, it's not like a b-2 pilot would feel less compassion then a UAV pilot just because the UAV pilot is in creech or Nellis not over the battlefield.

reply to post by Stealthbomber

UAV operator will not be shot down when he is on the way to deliver ordinance on the target.

The point being that using a UAV is to avoid risking the life of a human pilot..... While the goal is to kill humans.

Zaphod58

muzzleflash
You can Hack into a Drone and take over it's Controls.
How else does the Govt control the Drone? That's how you can gain control.
All wireless.

The only "hacking" of any UAV has been to spoof the GPS and cause it to think it was somewhere else. There has not been a total take over of one yet.

That's all a terrorist needs though.
ECCM must be priority.
I presume it is and has been.


Here's a cool article I was reading, from InfoSec

Here's a little snip from down in the article a bit:

The principle behind the GPS spoofing attack is that sending to control system of the drone fake geographic coordinates it is possible to deceive the on board system hijacking the vehicle in a different place for which it is commanded.

A similar attack is possible due the leak of use of encrypted GPS signal, common occurrence for civilian aviation according Noel Sharkey, co-founder of the International Committee for Robot Arms Control.

“It’s easy to spoof an unencrypted drone. Anybody technically skilled could do this – it would cost them some £700 for the equipment and that’s it,” Last year he declared to the BBC News.

An UAV could be directed somewhere using its GPS, a spoofer can make drone think it’s somewhere else and make it crash into a specific target, contrary to what we can thing it wouldn’t be too hard for a very skilled attacker to manipulate an unencrypted signal sent to a drone and spoof them.

Also read down to the part on Malware attacks, it seems the Mil got a key logger on their systems randomly (if I am reading it correctly). It seems pretty random so I think they got really lucky that it wasn't anything serious. But it does kinda show the potentials of what the future holds.

reply to post by muzzleflash


GPS is being encrypted, and the first micro ECM emitters are being tested.

reply to post by Stealthbomber


Years ago I had a boss who liked to do what you're doing: Minimize and trivialize every problem until there was no problem. I seethed with hatred for him until I eventually had to quit to keep from throttling him to death where he stood.

In any event, your arguments are all beside the point. We The People to do not like being spied-upon, surveilled, tracked, and catalogued. We do not like the easy open-air prison mentallity of our controllers. We are sick and tired of being rolled over by government and corporations and then asked why we object to it.

It doesn't matter why we object to it. I think the members of this society have made it perfectly clear that we don't give a damn why the government thinks our airways have to be saturated with drones. It's now government's obligation to stand down. We're not interested in being reasoned with, talked down, or out-logicked. We want it to stop.

So there's your answer....

First of all, words like "drone" or "unmanned" are misleading. With these types of aircraft there is always a human-in-the-loop regardless of the amount of autonomy (i.e., the difference between Predator and Global Hawk control). It would be better to call them remotely piloted aircraft (RPAs).

Second, not all RPAs are created equal. They come in all shapes and sizes (from those that fit in the palm of your hand to the ones with a wingspan comparable to a Boeing 747) depending on their mission. Not all RPAs are used for military or law enforcement missions. Some are used for science, agriculture, firefighting and other missions.

www.nasa.gov...

www.nasa.gov...

www.nasa.gov...

In any event, increasing use of RPAs is inevitable. There is a big push to integrate these aircraft into the national airspace.

www.faa.gov...

Stealthbomber
reply to post by solidshot

 

LARS(lethal autonomous robots) are not possible with current technology and are still a long way off.

Of course they are - it might not be trivial, but we already have fully autonomous aircraft, and automatic target recognition (see also this 2.6mb PDF) - "all" that has to be done is combine the 2

They couldn't put these into use unless they were certain they could only kill enemies, it would be a publicity nightmare if one of these went rouge and started killing a bunch of civilians.

Yeah - history tells us that cuasing civilian casulaties leads to an outcry sufficient to stop them...(not!)

Shadowhawk
First of all, words like "drone" or "unmanned" are misleading. With these types of aircraft there is always a human-in-the-loop regardless of the amount of autonomy (i.e., the difference between Predator and Global Hawk control). It would be better to call them remotely piloted aircraft (RPAs).

That is part of the drone technology - however autonomous flight is practical now too - with no human intervention - flying a preset course from takeoff-landing and carrying out some preset tasks along the way - power line inspection is a situation I have seen "experimented with" personally.

Stealthbomber
Now that I have your attention,


So id like to know what exactly your scared of when it comes to drones??

Where are the the electronic components (chips,cpu,mem,drives,etc) that are used in these drones created or manufactured?