The Crucifixion and Resurrection Allegory

FlyersFan

Dubz310
A crucifixion did take place, but not of who many believe it to be (Jesus). Rather, someone else was put in his place ....

Um .... no. the gospels say that it was indeed Jesus who died .. and He did DIE. There is nothing to even remotely suggest that Jesus was somehow let out of His sacrifice by God. Jesus prayed for the 'cup to pass' ... but while on the cross Jesus confirmed that the cup didn't pass when He cried out 'my God, my God why did You abandon me'. And we know it was Jesus because His mother stood at the foot of the cross and Jesus addressed her.

Ah but he was obedient even to the point of death

5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,[a] 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

What if, and it's ok to consider this, but what if in the end, the whole conspiracy was so great that his resurrection involved his survival, by a mere thread, so that he might pick up his life in heaven, where there's no differentiating his resurrected life as a man, enjoying the happy life, held in reserve where when the last are first and the first, last, the best of the best is always served last in the liberated life, beyond the box of fate and circumstance, but for all the right reasons and for the sake of "we" so as to generate the heavenly life and the new creation, to prepare a place for us all, which by it's very nature does not terminate in sorrow and suffering, but in triumphant joy and liberation, in resurrection.

What if they just couldn't kill him, and if he had certain friends in all the right places, like Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea maybe even a certain Roman soldier, it's possible, and entirely reasonable to assume that in spite this grand conspiracy, rippling around the event itself (the ritual and the prophecy) - Jesus himself went into the jaws of the beast, double-blind, meaning entirely obedient to the will of God, will of love, such that when he later awoke in the tomb, his first thought, after giving thanks and praise to God, might have been towards his friend, Nicodemus, and in running around the tomb in absolute joy, he might very well have said aloud his friend's name in realizing how he managed to pull through. The tomb then three days later, because they understood what he was doing, leveraged open, with the men in dazzling white suits saying "Why do you look for the living among the dead?" the stone, rolled away. What of the Roman soldiers stationed as guards at the tomb, you may ask? Maybe money talks.. or the soldiers was involved in the conspiracy.

He even employed the art of disguise in his initial meetings with his friends, like on the Road to Emmaus, yet as always doing everything perfectly and for all the right reasons when they were allowed to recognize him at the very moment he was breaking bread.

It's even better this notion that Jesus really did get to the other side, walking and breathing, legs still in tact. Much more compelling, and sympathetic to the person of Jesus himself as not only God, as God's love itself made present in our midst (made transparent through Jesus the son of God), but as a true friend and the type of person you can trust to do the right thing all the way down the line and to get the job done right.

Doesn't mean it wasn't an entirely miraculous healing, in three days, or that he didn't make it by the merest of threads. To the point of death itself, obedient.

He was accompanied by Nicodemus, the man who earlier had visited Jesus at night. Nicodemus brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about seventy-five pounds. (roughly 35 kilos)

John 19:39

John 19

19 Then Pilate took Jesus and had him flogged. 2 The soldiers twisted together a crown of thorns and put it on his head. They clothed him in a purple robe 3 and went up to him again and again, saying, “Hail, king of the Jews!” And they slapped him in the face.

4 Once more Pilate came out and said to the Jews gathered there, “Look, I am bringing him out to you to let you know that I find no basis for a charge against him.” 5 When Jesus came out wearing the crown of thorns and the purple robe, Pilate said to them, “Here is the man!”

6 As soon as the chief priests and their officials saw him, they shouted, “Crucify! Crucify!”

But Pilate answered, “You take him and crucify him. As for me, I find no basis for a charge against him.”

7 The Jewish leaders insisted, “We have a law, and according to that law he must die, because he claimed to be the Son of God.”

8 When Pilate heard this, he was even more afraid, 9 and he went back inside the palace. “Where do you come from?” he asked Jesus, but Jesus gave him no answer. 10 “Do you refuse to speak to me?” Pilate said. “Don’t you realize I have power either to free you or to crucify you?”

11 Jesus answered, “You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin.”

12 From then on, Pilate tried to set Jesus free, but the Jewish leaders kept shouting, “If you let this man go, you are no friend of Caesar. Anyone who claims to be a king opposes Caesar.”

13 When Pilate heard this, he brought Jesus out and sat down on the judge’s seat at a place known as the Stone Pavement (which in Aramaic is Gabbatha). 14 It was the day of Preparation of the Passover; it was about noon.

“Here is your king,” Pilate said to the Jews.

15 But they shouted, “Take him away! Take him away! Crucify him!”

“Shall I crucify your king?” Pilate asked.

“We have no king but Caesar,” the chief priests answered.

16 Finally Pilate handed him over to them to be crucified.

The Crucifixion of Jesus

So the soldiers took charge of Jesus. 17 Carrying his own cross, he went out to the place of the Skull (which in Aramaic is called Golgotha). 18 There they crucified him, and with him two others—one on each side and Jesus in the middle.

19 Pilate had a notice prepared and fastened to the cross. It read: jesus of nazareth, the king of the jews. 20 Many of the Jews read this sign, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city, and the sign was written in Aramaic, Latin and Greek. 21 The chief priests of the Jews protested to Pilate, “Do not write ‘The King of the Jews,’ but that this man claimed to be king of the Jews.”

22 Pilate answered, “What I have written, I have written.”

23 When the soldiers crucified Jesus, they took his clothes, dividing them into four shares, one for each of them, with the undergarment remaining. This garment was seamless, woven in one piece from top to bottom.

24 “Let’s not tear it,” they said to one another. “Let’s decide by lot who will get it.”

This happened that the scripture might be fulfilled that said,

“They divided my clothes among them
and cast lots for my garment.”[a]
So this is what the soldiers did.

25 Near the cross of Jesus stood his mother, his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. 26 When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to her, “Woman, here is your son,” 27 and to the disciple, “Here is your mother.” From that time on, this disciple took her into his home.

The Death of Jesus

28 Later, knowing that everything had now been finished, and so that Scripture would be fulfilled, Jesus said, “I am thirsty.” 29 A jar of wine vinegar was there, so they soaked a sponge in it, put the sponge on a stalk of the hyssop plant, and lifted it to Jesus’ lips. 30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

31 Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down. 32 The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other. 33 But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. 34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water. 35 The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe. 36 These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken,” 37 and, as another scripture says, “They will look on the one they have pierced.”

The Burial of Jesus

38 Later, Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus. Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he feared the Jewish leaders. With Pilate’s permission, he came and took the body away. 39 He was accompanied by Nicodemus, the man who earlier had visited Jesus at night. Nicodemus brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about seventy-five pounds. 40 Taking Jesus’ body, the two of them wrapped it, with the spices, in strips of linen. This was in accordance with Jewish burial customs. 41 At the place where Jesus was crucified, there was a garden, and in the garden a new tomb, in which no one had ever been laid. 42 Because it was the Jewish day of Preparation and since the tomb was nearby, they laid Jesus there.

reply to post by Ralphy


There is no "Allegory" concerning the Crucifixion and Resurrection Ralphy. All scholars and people in academia will confirm that there is no way it can be interpreted like this. Those are historical events recorded as part of the biography of Jesus' time on earth.


Every reply on this thread will be a complete fabrication of the facts where we can just make allegories of historical events and peoples lives. There's a word for that and its called delusion. We are only deluding ourselves when we attempt to create our own version of history.

And yes I expect someone now to come along hand write a wall of text making up some absurd claims but that is to be expected.

I know who and what I believe in, and why.

I know who Jesus is.

It's not like badge that you wear though, or an instrument, but a unconditionally loving open invitation to be forgiven, accepted, included, recognized, by God or known by God as he knows us but knowing him as he knows us, and that he knows we know he knows, if you know what I mean.

It's not a "thing" or a point of leverage in opposition to our fellow man, but the very love that draws us together and to Jesus himself.

I can't come at anyone wielding Jesus over my head like a sword for example, that kind of defeats the whole purpose.

Love one another as I have loved you, so they will know me by your love for one another..

Oh Jesus, he's just so beautiful and FUNNY let me tell you, oh sigh, giggle, sigh.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


You have just confirmed to the world that you really are no Christian at all as you outright reject The Gospel... Anyone denying the Crucifixion and Resurrection are liars and an antichrist according to the Bible. Those conspiracy's would be laughed at by any serious academic.

NewAgeMan
I know who Jesus is.

No you don't. Not one bit. You are a blasphemer and the wrath of God abides on you.

Repent

reply to post by RevelationGeneration


I will if you will?

And hey after all, we all have something to repent about..

I love you.

I will pray, for you too.

Thank you for your kind words, and encouragement.

With love,

NAM aka Bob
Your brother, in Christ.

reply to post by RevelationGeneration


Just for the record, I fully embrace the crucifixion and the resurrection of Jesus Christ, on the far side of the cross, and the tomb, where he forever lives and never dies and forever intercedes, for me, and for you also.

I believe in the bodily resurrection and immaculate healing of Jesus, the man, and the God and true friend and brother.

In his frame the brotherhood of man is magnified to the nth degree. The brotherhood of man under the true Fatherhood of God, in the son, and with the holy spirit.

Dude, you're casting all kinds of dispersion and judgments.

All the treasure is in Jesus Christ and the treasure is his love.

That's all he asked of us, was to love one another as he loves us.

I hope you'll find it in your heart of hearts to forgive, and to bless, and to be and become evermore like Jesus himself in person, both in crucifixion and in the resurrected life eternal.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


You are praying to a wall. When you turn to Christ for forgiveness and trust in The Gospel then God will hear your prayers. You need to repent for being a liar and blasphemer of God.

I shall leave you with these scriptures and cease further communication with you until you have acknowledged your sin.

2 Peter 2:1 - But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

2 John 1:7-11 - For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

reply to post by RevelationGeneration


I believe, in the immaculate healing and the physical, bodily resurrection of the person of Jesus Christ who can never die, and who wasted no time, from the abode of light and love, about 35 years later, to confront Saul, on the Road to Damascus.

reply to post by RevelationGeneration


I too am bought by the blood of the lamb above the door, in more ways than one.

I am a believer in historical crucifixion and the physical bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ who never dies.

I believe that he is God in the flesh.

None of this however is a confession that was brought about by your particular style of proselytizing.

And I will forgive you as I am forgiven, and pray for you, so that there's no more wrath coming from anywhere but in particular, from you yourself, for misreading and misunderstanding me all the way along it would seem.

with love (tentatively extended),

NAM aka Bob
Your brother, in Christ.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

NewAgeMan
reply to post by RevelationGeneration

 

I am a believer in historical crucifixion and the physical bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ who never dies.

No you are not.

NewAgeMan
reply to post by RevelationGeneration

 

I am a believer in historical crucifixion and the physical bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ who never dies.

Your own mouth condemns you, not mine, your own lips testify against you.

RevelationGeneration
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

NewAgeMan
reply to post by RevelationGeneration

 

I am a believer in historical crucifixion and the physical bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ who never dies.

No you are not.

Um, yes, I am.

NewAgeMan

RevelationGeneration
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

NewAgeMan
reply to post by RevelationGeneration

 

I am a believer in historical crucifixion and the physical bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ who never dies.

No you are not.

Um, yes, I am.

Do you go to church? You should share with some real believers your alternative new age version of Christianity and see what they think.

reply to post by RevelationGeneration


What, that I think that Jesus was obedient to the point of death on the cross and then like a camel through the eye of a needle made it through both by a mere thread, and via an immaculate and miraculous healing, in three days, to exit the tomb, in his physical, bodily form? ie.: that he never died as dead as a doornail, and in fact never did die at all, ever. Is that it?

He lives on though, even today, in physical, bodily form, in heaven, and in spirit. He's the whole domain in fact of Reality and Existence itself but with the human being included not excluded if they so choose to receive the free gift of life.

You're a lion roaring at me for all the wrong reasons.

I'm not sure you represent the love of Jesus Christ, to be honest, but I'm not going to go there myself because that's between you and him.

You see, a person cannot take another person's spiritual inventory, nor condemn them. We are best not to judge, and to show mercy.

So that's what I'll do, as it relates to you my supposed Christian friend and brother.

NAM aka Bob

reply to post by RevelationGeneration


Did you really just use the words "new age" against me based solely on a presupposition on your part?

I wish to draw people to Christ, not repel them. And I don't need to alter the story one bit to achieve that, I'm being true to what's there.

He took it all upon himself and fulfilled the prophecy to a t, did it all, and then some.. to create a heaven for you and me.

You've got the wrong guy, I'm on your side.

It's ironic, actually.

reply to post by RevelationGeneration


Question for you:

The two in clothing that "gleamed like lightening", that the women encountered at the opened tomb - were they men, or angels?

RevelationGeneration
Do you go to church?.

You don't have to go to church to be a good Christian. In fact, the many of the most loving 'christ like' Christians I know are the ones who do not sit for hours and hours each week in those hate filled rhetoric fundamentalist churches .. they avoid it .. and they are better christians for it.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Angels... Why?

RevelationGeneration
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

Angels... Why?

I was just wondering if you were making any assumptions, because it states in the Bible, that they were men, dressed in clothes that gleamed like lightening.

You've me asked earlier whether the resurrected Jesus had the same physical body he had when his friends, Joseph and Nicodemus, placed him in the tomb, as a test, and I've answered that yes, he had the very same body, immaculately and miraculously healed, and that it wasn't some new type of body as many fundamentalists preach.

So I thought that I'd check back with you on these types of fine details, to check and see what you truly know, or might have just assumed.

That's why.