A Heat Pump Is an Overunity Device?

Mary Rose

Mary Rose
I don't doubt that. But our devices we're using are limited to what can be engineered with mainstream science.

I may have confused the issue there.

The heat pump has been engineered with mainstream science, I presume.

So the question of interpretation or understanding thermodynamics is the real issue, I guess.

And, hey, if someone had a new theory of thermo that actually fit the data, and by theory I mean it in the physics sense, not the stoner sense, then it would be a best seller amongst the science types.

reply to post by Bedlam


It would? Why?

butcherguy

Mary Rose
reply to post by Bedlam

 

Okay.

Do we simply have an argument about math and procedures?

Let's get real.

Does the heat pump put out more usable power than it took to run the thing, or not?

Depending on the outdoor temperature, heat pumps can be fairly inefficient. If fuel costs are low, you might be better off without a heat pump.

Definitely. I've found that Heat Pumps are effective/efficient until the temp drops to around 32 degrees. If you live in an environment where it gets colder than that, I'd go with a conventional system.

Mary Rose
reply to post by Bedlam

 

It would? Why?

Are you kidding? We live for crap like that. I know these guys are selling you that "this is what science doesn't want you to know", it's a classic trope. They teach it in ad school.

The trouble is, it's not true. Science is like a gold mine. Every once in a while, someone has a Comstock or Sutter's Mill sort of discovery, and we all flock to it. It's the stuff funding is made of, and Nobels are given for. You get to do a Capt Kirk and go where no man has gone before. But eventually all the easy Rutherford string and sealing wax stuff is mined out and you get down to arcane boring slogging trying to find some anomaly that might be the Next Mother Lode.

Thermodynamics is about as dry as it gets. That's because it's so damned hard to disprove. It's SO bad that people discover new things by simply starting with the assumptions that they ARE true and adding that to other fields. No one's dug up any nuggets in thermo for a long, long, long time. If you were to undermine thermo, why, it's Willy Wonka time, and we've ALL got our own Oompa Loompas. It's endless funding and endless papers, with endless possibilities for The Big Discovery.

But it just never happens in thermo. You *might* find someone that dumps the applecart in particle physics eventually, but thermo isn't a promising new territory. If your guy's just discovered heat pumps, it's a lead pipe cinch he doesn't really understand how to calculate efficiency numbers in heat engines.

Mary Rose
reply to post by Bedlam

 

Thank you for your well-meaning advice but I'm very content and satisfied with my tutors, who are the movers and shakers of this world who think for themselves and don't accept the mainstream as an authority figure.

Really, we are calling grade 8 science "mainstream" now? I mean, a loo-oo-oong time ago people didn't know these things, so technically everyone is just trying to teach you "out of the box thinking" circa 1823.

Bedlam
Are you kidding? We live for crap like that.

How would Peter Lindemann's research make it through peer review?

Tucket
I've found that Heat Pumps are effective/efficient until the temp drops to around 32 degrees.

Hmmmm. I live in Virginia.

We've had our system for a couple of years.

Mary Rose

Bedlam
Are you kidding? We live for crap like that.

How would Peter Lindemann's research make it through peer review?

He could try doing some actual scientific work:

From 1975 -1980, he had a private health practice and taught classes in Colored Light Therapy, Shiatsu Energy Balancing, massage, diet, nutrition, and Radionic Analysis. During this period, Peter ran hundreds of experiments with a natural method of balancing the body's energy developed by the late L. E. Eeman. Much of his early research on this subject was published in the book Bio-Circuits, Amazing New Tools for Energy Heath by Leslie and Terry Patten in 1988.

But you know the game, one day you are slapping moisturizer on people's backs, easing their tension with shiatsu; the next you invent free energy. Sad the mainstream won't take him serious.




www.free-energy.ws...

reply to post by boncho


You didn't link to your source. What is it?

Mary Rose
You didn't link to your source. What is it?

Okay I see you've taken an excerpt from a lengthy bio. Interested parties can read the whole bio and judge for themselves.

Mary Rose

Tucket
I've found that Heat Pumps are effective/efficient until the temp drops to around 32 degrees.

Hmmmm. I live in Virginia.

We've had our system for a couple of years.

What does the temp drop to around there? I've seen heat pumps work till about 23 degrees but the air is barely warm. The unit would be running constantly (maybe not so much if your house has decent R value, minimal air leakage etc). What temp does your aux/emergency heat turn on?

Tucket
What does the temp drop to around there? I've seen heat pumps work till about 23 degrees but the air is barely warm. The unit would be running constantly (maybe not so much if your house has decent R value, minimal air leakage etc). What temp does your aux/emergency heat turn on?

Aux heat was automatic on mine by default, and it cost a fortune to run that. I kept the aux heat disabled as long as I could stand it but a few times when it got down to 50 degrees inside the house, I had to enable it and got huge electric bills. The heat pump was the most expensive form of heating I had, compared to my other heating systems which used oil or natural gas.

So it sounds totally ludicrous to hear this over-unity discussion about heat pumps to me. I've paid the electric bills, and heat pumps were the worst of all.

Mary Rose

Mary Rose
You didn't link to your source. What is it?

Okay I see you've taken an excerpt from a lengthy bio. Interested parties can read the whole bio and judge for themselves.

edit on 11/16/13 by Mary Rose because: Change format

Which part, where he gets his honorary degrees from diploma mills or where he was plugging colloidal silver for 9 years to make a buck?

I don't think one has to differentiate between mainstream science and 'alternative' science. I look at it as both are 99% incomplete. Einstein told us that relativity was incomplete, but I think that was because he had the wisdom to understand that our observations and inevitable conclusions would always be incomplete.

The laws of thermodynamics break down when an infinite universe theory is considered in conjunction with either the expanding or inflating universe theory. However, if the laws of thermodynamics are 80% correct, or complete, and the infinite/expanding/inflating universe theories are 80% incorrect or incomplete, then yay for thermodynamics. The truth is that we do not understand the nature of how our universe comes into being, at least into our range of observation, but laws of thermodynamics are very practical and useful on our scale of reality.

There are legends (possibly myths) of Cosmic Induction Generators by Farnsworth, Tesla, Dollard, and the like, which create conditions (as yet uncontrollable) that cause 'space' to expand or inflate at a much greater rate than normal. The by-product of these devices is purportedly electrons - by a ratio of about 500 out to 1 in, depending on where you're reading.

If these devices were to exist, they don't break laws of thermodynamics specifically, but they do completely knock the periodic table off the wall. Prior to the 1920s, a different form of the periodic table was proposed, but it was more of a 'graduated table of elements', where elements evolved into larger manifestations from smaller ones when certain conditions permit.

There is a reason why Tesla did nothing but feed pigeons for the rest of his life after the publishing of Einstein's Special Relativity. There is a reason why the FBI 'Office of Foreign Property' seized all of his possessions from his hotel room after his death. There is a reason why his lab was destroyed (and the most likely one was that he was an electrical scientist, and he burnt it down himself, just sayin'.)

The Farnsworth papers have been lost as well, presumed to have been snatched up by the government, but no one really knows.

I think that the real problem we have with our 'academic scientific method' is that scientists dedicate their entire lives to ideas, theories, hypotheses, which sometimes turn out to be incorrect, but they cling to them, as does the scientific community because they don't ever want to feel like they've wasted their lives on incorrect hypotheses. Scientific discovery is limited and hampered by the egos of the scientists who can't let go.

As far as the heat pump, I would just think that 'the space between' would account for the seeming math inconsistency. Cold anything, except for water, is denser, and therefore takes up less space than heated anything, and the problem is that while heat is the output, the heat is diffused and expanded in a relative way, so that the same amount of energy is spread over a larger volume. The energy input is the loss, and the diffusion simply creates a wash.

Arbitrageur

Tucket
What does the temp drop to around there? I've seen heat pumps work till about 23 degrees but the air is barely warm. The unit would be running constantly (maybe not so much if your house has decent R value, minimal air leakage etc). What temp does your aux/emergency heat turn on?

Aux heat was automatic on mine by default, and it cost a fortune to run that. I kept the aux heat disabled as long as I could stand it but a few times when it got down to 50 degrees inside the house, I had to enable it and got huge electric bills. The heat pump was the most expensive form of heating I had, compared to my other heating systems which used oil or natural gas.

So it sounds totally ludicrous to hear this over-unity discussion about heat pumps to me. I've paid the electric bills, and heat pumps were the worst of all.

Yeah the theory behind heat pumps is nice, but often is the case that the theory doesn't apply to real life.
And Wow! Your pump wouldn't even work to 50 degrees??

Tucket
Yeah the theory behind heat pumps is nice, but often is the case that the theory doesn't apply to real life.
And Wow! Your pump wouldn't even work to 50 degrees??

Without aux heat when the outdoor temperature was really cold, my indoor temperature got in the 50s. The heat coming out of the heat pump was warmer than that, but the walls were only a little more than 3" thick so it wasn't keeping up with the heat loss through the walls. Better insulation would have helped with 6" walls instead of 3.5".

reply to post by Tucket


I looked online and it said the average winter temperature in Virginia is 32. That sounds about right.

The unit does not run constantly at all and the temperature is very comfortable. I don't know about the aux/emergency heat. I'm in a condominium so I don't own the unit; the association does. We also have an energy-management system.

Like I said we've had the system for a couple of years. So far I'm very satisfied.

After this statement:

Mon1k3r
There is a reason why the FBI 'Office of Foreign Property' seized all of his possessions from his hotel room after his death.

I don't quite get this statement:

Mon1k3r
There is a reason why his lab was destroyed (and the most likely one was that he was an electrical scientist, and he burnt it down himself, just sayin'.)

Please elaborate.

Mary Rose
reply to post by Tucket

 

I looked online and it said the average winter temperature in Virginia is 32. That sounds about right.

The unit does not run constantly at all and the temperature is very comfortable. I don't know about the aux/emergency heat. I'm in a condominium so I don't own the unit; the association does. We also have an energy-management system.

Like I said we've had the system for a couple of years. So far I'm very satisfied.

Fair enough. HPs are definitely more applicable in multi unit dwellings, towers, etc, as there is less heat loss through the walls. If the outdoor temp hovers around zero than yeah..I can see why you're satisfied.

Tucket
If the outdoor temp hovers around zero than yeah..I can see why you're satisfied.

?? Around zero? 32?