A Heat Pump Is an Overunity Device?

I have the video of a presentation by Peter Lindemann at the 2013 Bedini-Lindemann Science and Technology Conference entitled Open System Thermodynamics.

Among many other things, he talks about heat pumps. Here are four screen shots that capture what I hear him saying about them:









The association for my condominium neighborhood replaced our old HVAC system with a heat pump system about two years ago, and it does seem to be very efficient.

In the "heat" mode, it has a COP > 1.

That's because the energy required to run the thing is added to the energy extracted from the outside environment. It's one of those results that comes from the way COP is calculated.

reply to post by Mary Rose


No, for the exact same reasons explained to you in your "Atmos Clock" thread.

reply to post by Bedlam


Okay.

Do we simply have an argument about math and procedures?

Let's get real.

Does the heat pump put out more usable power than it took to run the thing, or not?

reply to post by Mary Rose


It does not.

Mary Rose
reply to post by Bedlam

 

Okay.

Do we simply have an argument about math and procedures?

Let's get real.

Does the heat pump put out more usable power than it took to run the thing, or not?

No. A COP>1 does not imply an efficiency > 100%. It's not an argument about math or procedures, you can't interpret COP > 1 as overunity, because that's not what it's telling you.

If you had a perfect heat pump and a perfect heat engine, you would extract exactly the amount of energy out that you put in. Carnot figured that one out in the early 1800's.

Hey OP, you might get a kick out of this, and learn some useful facts



BTW, it can run on ice as well!

Mary Rose
reply to post by Bedlam

 

Okay.

Do we simply have an argument about math and procedures?

Let's get real.

Does the heat pump put out more usable power than it took to run the thing, or not?

Get a heat pump installed.
Use it to heat your house for a month.
Check your electric power bill.

If the heat pump is an overunity device, and you did not use electricity to heat your house previously, your bill should go down. If the heat pump was the only electrical device you are using, the power company should owe you money.

Don't worry, your bill will go up. Heat pumps are not overunity devices. It takes quite a bit of power to run a compressor.

Depending on the outdoor temperature, heat pumps can be fairly inefficient. If fuel costs are low, you might be better off without a heat pump.

Bedlam
Carnot figured that one out in the early 1800's.

Thank you.

I remember the name from the video so now I know I need to go back and watch the video again to put pieces of the puzzle together.

Mary Rose

Bedlam
Carnot figured that one out in the early 1800's.

Thank you.

I remember the name from the video so now I know I need to go back and watch the video again to put pieces of the puzzle together.

Or, you could pick up some algebra, Calculus I, and take Thermodynamics, you learn Carnot cycles, heat pumps and how to calculate efficiency in Thermo 1.

reply to post by Bedlam


Thank you for your well-meaning advice but I'm very content and satisfied with my tutors, who are the movers and shakers of this world who think for themselves and don't accept the mainstream as an authority figure.

Mary Rose
I remember the name from the video so now I know I need to go back and watch the video again to put pieces of the puzzle together.

Here is another screenshot:



Now I will see what I can do to paraphrase the video in a nutshell.

Mary Rose
reply to post by Bedlam

 

Thank you for your well-meaning advice but I'm very content and satisfied with my tutors, who are the movers and shakers of this world who think for themselves and don't accept the mainstream as an authority figure.

Still, have you ever seen even one of them produce anything that worked?

Look around you - thermodynamics is one of the most provable of the sciences. Every steam engine you see is proof. Plus any nozzle, refrigerator, heat pump etc.

You can do these things yourself. Pretty much every physics or engineering student has. And guess what? Every time you do it, Carnot was right. And stuff you design from that? That works.

Show me anything your "movers and shakers" has built that wasn't a scam. I'll wait.

Every last "perpetual motion machine" that you've seen from Bearden, Bedini, et al end up as scams, or 'the dog eats their homework' or somehow that Yakuza keeps them from revealing their secrets. Because it's all bull cookies.

reply to post by Bedlam


If I'm able to do a good job of paraphrasing the video, I hope that you will use your own reasoning instead of what you've learned in school and accepted as true because it's mainstream, and we'll go from there.

Mary Rose
reply to post by Bedlam

 

If I'm able to do a good job of paraphrasing the video, I hope that you will use your own reasoning instead of what you've learned in school and accepted as true because it's mainstream, and we'll go from there.

Heck, Mary, I don't believe it because it's mainstream, I believe it because i've proven it to myself in the lab, and because I see it work all around me, every day.

reply to post by Bedlam


I don't doubt that. But our devices we're using are limited to what can be engineered with mainstream science. You know that, don't you?

Mary Rose
But our devices we're using are limited to what can be engineered with mainstream science. You know that, don't you?

Whilst the devices claimed to be invented or engineered by the scammers you support have never worked as claimed.

So we have mainstream science producing devices that do what they claim, and we have devices "invented" by the scammers doing nothing but making peoples wallets lighter!

Mary Rose
I don't doubt that. But our devices we're using are limited to what can be engineered with mainstream science.

I may have confused the issue there.

The heat pump has been engineered with mainstream science, I presume.

So the question of interpretation or understanding thermodynamics is the real issue, I guess.

Mary Rose
reply to post by Bedlam

 

I don't doubt that. But our devices we're using are limited to what can be engineered with mainstream science. You know that, don't you?

They work really well, though, and exactly as you'd calculate. That tells me that there is a lot to it. If they didn't do anything, it would be just like a Bearden device.

I'd happily await something functional engineered NOT with mainstream science...either mainstream you pick.

I just never see them. And the 'theories' they put out generally have so many holes in them they're not even really entertaining any more.

It may be that this is an issue of equilibrium vs. non-equilibrium thermodynamics.