Is religion a mental disorder?

reply to post by FlyersFan


good post...

can you expand on "behavior" a little more? where does how this is judged come from, one behavior some place may not be accepted behavior in another place.

such as beheading and mutilations ect...

Eryiedes
DRM-5 also says if you think the government is lying, you need to be medicated...

Straw man taken to an absurd level. No it doesn't. Stop deflecting.
Extreme paranoia needs medication. But not 'I think the government lies'.

so what's your point?

Simple ... that it's natural evolutionary psychology for humans to have religion or spirituality.
- Psychology says so. - Sociology says so.
- And it's been that way for 10s of thousands of years BEFORE organized religion screwed it up.

It's natural to believe. Most humans need a belief in purpose and afterlife.
It's also natural not to believe.
Belief or nonbelief in the spiritual/religious ... neither is a 'disorder'.

Eryiedes

BlueMule
Do you believe in psi?

I think 99% of it is hoax from what I've seen.

Even if that's true (it's not) all it takes is for 1% to be non-hoax to overturn the philosophical premises upon which mainstream science is based.

Rest assured someday that will happen. Future generations might look back on people who were unable to work psi into their philosophy / world-view/ ideology as having a mental disorder.

Have you worked psi into your philosophy? If not then your philosophy, whatever it is, is flawed. Maybe it's YOU that has the mental disorder... because you are unable to work every aspect of reality into your world-view. Wouldn't that be ironic?

reply to post by SisyphusRide

do I need credentials to speak?

If you are speaking on this subject? Yes.
You do.

You are (as of now) talking about something of which you have no knowledge.

FlyersFan
Straw man taken to an absurd level. No it doesn't. Stop deflecting.

Look up what it says on ideology.

Extreme paranoia needs medication. But not 'I think the government lies'.

You haven't read it all have you...

Simple ... that it's natural evolutionary psychology for humans to have religion or spirituality.
- Psychology says so. - Sociology says so.
- And it's been that way for 10s of thousands of years BEFORE organized religion screwed it up.

As I said, I am willing to concede primative humans had such need. Modern man has outgrown it like an old computer operating system. It causes more problems than it solves and something can not be both good and bad in a moral sence...it can only be good or bad and if it is at all bad in any part then philosophy tells us that it can only be described as bad.
If you have a brain tumor and you goto the doctor, he doesn't say your 95% healthy...he says you are sick and this is no different with respect to religion or anything else.
It's a moral absolute.

It's natural to believe. Most humans need a belief in purpose and afterlife.
It's also natural not to believe.
Belief or nonbelief in the spiritual/religious ... neither is a 'disorder'.

You are free to do what you will but you refuse to address the medical and psychological facts.
When you argue about god I can speak to that because I was religious and I read the bible. I get it.
But you refuse to address the fact (and even act like I haven't presented the same information to you in another thread) that you never even looked at the material before? So without even knowing what the other information is...you weigh in on it in two threads like you've seen it? A little dishonest if you ask me.

-Peace-

reply to post by SisyphusRide

research and educate yourself if you read something that goes against your train of thought.

Exactly, bro.

That.

It's apparent you haven't done much research, or striven to educate yourself.
Just looking at places that confirm one's bias is NOT research, NOR is it striving to educate oneself.
It is parroting back ideological/political/uninformed bias that you haven't investigated.

Yikes.

SisyphusRide
can you expand on "behavior" a little more? where does how this is judged come from, one behavior some place may not be accepted behavior in another place. such as beheading and mutilations ect...

Well ... the question is 'Is religion a disorder' ... and the answer is no, it's a natural function of the human condition.

The DSM is pretty clear about what behavior constitutes a disorder

"A mental disorder is a syndrome characterized by clinically significant disturbance in an individual's cognition, emotion regulation, or behavior that reflects a dysfunction in the psychological, biological, or developmental processes underlying mental functioning. Mental disorders are usually associated with significant distress in social, occupational, or other important activities. "

Distress in carrying out life functions .... can't go to work or school and function; stops eating or eats too much; that kind of thing.

Disturbance in mental functioning and keeping emotions under control ... breaks out crying for no apparent reason; laughs at inappropriate times; can't mentally process situations correctly ...

To keep with the theme of this thread .... religion/spirituality isn't 'disorder' .. however it can be DEVIANT when it runs counter to society's accepted norms. Deviant behavior is determined by the judger - the society norm. Your example of beheadings in the name of religion ... that is when 'deviant' can be brought into the conversation because it runs counter to accepted behavior in civilized society.

That's quick ... you'd have to break out the psychology books for something indepth ..

wildtimes
reply to post by SisyphusRide

 

do I need credentials to speak?

If you are speaking on this subject? Yes.
You do.

You are (as of now) talking about something of which you have no knowledge.

edit on 11/23/13 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

this is a public forum..

and there are many in this topic not certified on any subject and are speaking, like yourself...

I am certified to speak because I am a human being.

BlueMule
Even if that's true (it's not) all it takes is for 1% to be non-hoax to overturn the philosophical premises upon which mainstream science is based.

It would would only update certain parts of it...it wouldn't destroy it...you're exaggerating a bit.

Rest assured someday that will happen.

Or it might not.

Have you worked psi into your philosophy? If not then your philosophy, whatever it is, is flawed. Maybe it's YOU that has the mental disorder... because you are unable to work every aspect of reality into your world-view. Wouldn't that be ironic?

I took X-Factor & Paranormal studies all throughout my college years as electives.
It's the reason I became an atheist.

-Peace-

Eryiedes
Look up what it says on ideology.

It does NOT say that if you think the government lies then you need to be medicated.
Extreme paranoia .. yes. Government lies ... no.
Like I said .. you took it to the extreme.

You haven't read it all have you...

I had to learn the basics of the DSM-IV for my psychology degree.
(not the DSM - V)

As I said, I am willing to concede primative humans had such need. Modern man has outgrown it like an old computer operating system.

There is no separation. What was human evolutionary psychology back then is still hardwired into us now. It's a basic human need to believe in us having a purpose and an afterlife. It's not disordered NOT to believe .. but it's also not disordered TO believe.

It causes more problems than it solves

Sure. I agree. But religion/spirituality is not a 'disorder'. It's a natural part of the human condition. It has been for tens of thousands of years. It's hardwired and therefore it's not a 'disorder' to believe in a religion or a spirituality.

you refuse to address the medical and psychological facts.

That's ALL I AM posting. That and sociology.
What you are posting is a lot of insults and not much else.

When you argue about god

I'm not arguing about god. I"m talking about evolutionary psychology and what a 'disorder' is.

A little dishonest if you ask me.

- I didn't ask you.
- Deflection.

The word you are looking for is DEVIANT ... not disorder.
Religions can be DEVIANT.
Belief in spirituality or an afterlife isn't 'disorder'.

Eryiedes

BlueMule
Even if that's true (it's not) all it takes is for 1% to be non-hoax to overturn the philosophical premises upon which mainstream science is based.

It would would only update certain parts of it...it wouldn't destroy it...you're exaggerating a bit.

Rest assured someday that will happen.

Or it might not.

Have you worked psi into your philosophy? If not then your philosophy, whatever it is, is flawed. Maybe it's YOU that has the mental disorder... because you are unable to work every aspect of reality into your world-view. Wouldn't that be ironic?

I took X-Factor & Paranormal studies all throughout my college years as electives.
It's the reason I became an atheist.

-Peace-

edit on 23-11-2013 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)

I just think it's rather ironic for someone who doesn't accept the reality of psi to accuse religious people of having beliefs that don't jive with reality.

Someday psi will overturn the philosophical premises upon which science is based, but that won't destroy science. You're reading into what I said. Science will function just fine when materialism, physicalism, scientism, are historical oddities.

reply to post by SisyphusRide

and there are many in this topic not certified on any subject and are speaking,

Yes, I'm aware of that.

The trouble is that those who are not 'certified on any subject' make statements that are not backed up by modern science. Hence, the trouble with you spreading 'falsehoods' due to your lack of certification.

Sorry. It just is what it is.

You have no room to speak about "psychiatry or sociology" when you are debating people who ARE certified in those fields/disciplines - because you do NOT have the necessary background to do so convincingly....
and pointing to the two study fields (in your own defense) of psychiatry and sociology, when you have NOTHING to confirm your credibility to speak about such, is, well.....
not really an educated approach.

reply to post by FlyersFan


the DSM facts are subjective to culture and locality...

even in the United States as it's own microcosm.

our definitions of behavior "law" come from morality...

in the United States, there is freedom of religion... but when this is not accepted by a minority group and this group becomes aggressive toward another, then this is actually trampling on constitutional rights.

so there is a mental issue with not understanding law... specially when it leads to a destructive, or out side of the moral and social laws.

things like Church burning, church robbery, general street style aggression against a religious person, or mosque bombing and desecration.

in our microcosm people have a right not to be harassed...

SisyphusRide
the DSM facts are subjective to culture and locality...

Sort of. But the thing is ... evolutionary psychology and sociology back up the DSM in this instance. Archeology has shown us that for tens of thousands of years, before organized religion, humans felt the need to believe in a purpose and an afterlife. It's part of the human condition. It's a mental stabilizer for a large chunk of humanity to believe that their life force continues on and that there is a purpose. So to believe in something religious or spiritual is in fact not a disorder. It's just a part of humanity ... always has been.

reply to post by SisyphusRide

the DSM facts are subjective to culture and locality...

The DSM facts are based on statistics of the continuum of functioning from a SUBJECTIVE point of view.

The 'subject's' worldview is shaped by their early indoctrination and upbringing.
OF COURSE it is 'relative' to culture and locality.

The DSM is based on "CLIENT-REPORTED DISCOMFORT/DYSFUNCTION", and diagnoses are measured by the 'subjective effect' people's ability to function within the 'society' of their locality/culture is troubling for them - in whatever world they are immersed.

Mental illness is the inability to 'adapt' to the wider culture without significant disturbance and inability to cope with one's circumstances effectively; the failure of 'coping mechanisms' already ingrained that contrast (as far as behavior and functionality go) with what is "real" in one's worldview and environment.

Wow.
You oughta zip it, man. Until you do your homework. At least on this subject. You don't know anything about psychology/sociology, obviously.

Please. Stop embarrassing yourself. Or, not.

FlyersFan
It does NOT say that if you think the government lies then you need to be medicated.
Extreme paranoia .. yes. Government lies ... no.
Like I said .. you took it to the extreme.

I KNEW you didn't read it! Give someone enough rope and they hang themselves...
Oppositional Defiance Disorder IS in DRM-5 and their standard method of treatment IS medication*.
Guess what they accuse people who don't trust the government of being?
(Personally, I am still reading it.)

There is no separation. What was human evolutionary psychology back then is still hardwired into us now. It's a basic human need to believe in us having a purpose and an afterlife.

Yes there is. Just like you can't run Windows 8 on a Mac. Different animals now...even physically. Viruses with no effect us would kill them. Their way of handling things (religion and the concept of god) was done at a time when man was as ignorant and as stupid as dirt. As a species we've just outgrown it just like children outgrow the nightlight. You'll protest this but it's just opinion vs opinion.

That's ALL I AM posting. That and sociology.

Sociology can not refute medical evidence. As for being an answer to Psychology? I'll let it slide for now and see where you are taking it.

I"m talking about evolutionary psychology and what a 'disorder' is.

Then watch the clips already and THEN we'll talk. at least then we'll EACH know what the other is talking about instead of the one-sided exchanges.

I didn't ask you.
- Deflection.

Incorrect...it's a pertinent observation.

The word you are looking for is DEVIANT ... not disorder.

No.
I do mean mental disorder but I didn't choose the wording...the OP did.

-Peace-

FlyersFan

SisyphusRide
the DSM facts are subjective to culture and locality...

Sort of. But the thing is ... evolutionary psychology and sociology back up the DSM in this instance. Archeology has shown us that for tens of thousands of years, before organized religion, humans felt the need to believe in a purpose and an afterlife. It's part of the human condition. It's a mental stabilizer for a large chunk of humanity to believe that their life force continues on and that there is a purpose. So to believe in something religious or spiritual is in fact not a disorder. It's just a part of humanity ... always has been.

this is where our moral codes are derived...



if you look closely above the 4 Greek pillars of life, you will see the word God with his 12 super rockstar disciples flanking God 6 to either side. You may notice the Greek/Christian Cross above the doors to either side also?

it doesn't say "Allah" or "no God" or "Science"



ps; ignore who is at the pulpit please... while she was speaker she was actually on anti-psychotic medication.

wildtimes

Mental illness is the inability to 'adapt' to the wider culture without significant disturbance and inability to cope with one's circumstances effectively; the failure of 'coping mechanisms' already ingrained that contrast (as far as behavior and functionality go) with what is "real" in one's worldview and environment.

This kinda reminds me of an episode of ST:TNG. Remember the ones with the Borg named Hugh? He had a great deal of difficulty adapting to the hive after tasting individuality. Didn't he start a resistance movement as a result?

From the perspective of the Borg, he was defective, insane, dangerous.

From the perspective of the Enterprise crew, he was perhaps the only sane Borg.

Eryiedes
I KNEW you didn't read it! Give someone enough rope and they hang themselves...

Oh knock it off. I DID READ IT. DSM-IV. I've got my copy right here.
The DSM-V is the next issue. And it hasn't changed in the area we are discussing.

Oppositional Defiance Disorder IS in DRM-5 and their standard method of treatment IS medication*.

No genius ... Believing that the government lies and 'oppositional defiance disorder' are NOT the same thing. Again you've taken it to the extreme in a deflection attempt. Seriously .... until you get the degree in psychology you should stop talking. You have no idea what you are talking about.

I do mean mental disorder but I didn't choose the wording...the OP did.

And 'mental disorder' for the belief in religion/spirituality is the wrong word. The only word that could possibly be appropriate in certain situations is deviant. That's established and proven.

FlyersFan

And 'mental disorder' for the belief in religion/spirituality is the wrong word. The only word that could possibly be appropriate in certain situations is deviant. That's established and proven.

Have you watched the 2 hours of video yet as Wildtimes advised?
Or are you dismissing it?

-Peace-