Rape: "Ladies, it's your fault."

Eidolon23

undo
of course it's not the woman's fault. using the word "fault" in those situations, is misleading. it should rather be stated that, if you don't want some unstable individual to steal your personal possessions, the first step would be not letting them know you have them. however, since this is impossible when it comes to gender, the next step would be to make sure they know you don't want them stealing from you. one way this is achieved is by behavior.

So, the vagina is something like a purse that can be snatched rather than an attribute of the person it's a part of?

no it's more like a personal possession that someone else thinks they are free to take, depending on their view of women. i view it like violent theft.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


I was raped in 1994. When I went through the phase of crying all the time and asking why did it happen to me, do you know what every single friend said to me?

"It's because you're beautiful."

Really screwed over my head for a bit.

P.S. And to be clear, that was the uniform response from both male and female friends. Both genders said it.

reply to post by WhiteAlice


I'm so sorry you had to go through that; both the insult and the injury.

As someone who's endured this crime against your person, how do you rate the video's effectiveness as a message for change? Do you think someone with the insecure mentality and poor impulse control of an attacker would even watch such a video? If so, what do you think the effect on them would be? An agent for change or would they be nodding their heads in agreement that rape is all the fault of the woman?

I don't doubt the reports of your beauty but don't think for a minute that you were assaulted for that reason. And shame on those who told you otherwise.

People who blame women for being victims of rape completely ignore the real and significant amount of men that are also raped. They ignore the significant amount of children of box sexes that are raped.

In other words, they're stupid.

Eidolon23
Okay, so I've been raped, and I've fended off rape by way off my self-defense skillz.

It wouldn't hurt to give girls the option of self-defense courses, but there's always going to be a size differential.

And besides. If this can be addressed on the perp end, why put the burden on the victim?

size doesn't need to be an issue...it's a matter of knowledge. I'm pretty average in size (5'7" and 120 lbs). I can drop a 250 lb gorilla, but I train regularly to do so.... Even against groups of attackers.

This past spring, I made my daughter take a rape defense class. This was her first year of college and I thought it was prudent. My daughter is very small & petite - about 5'2" and 90 lbs. The "attacker" was decked out in full, padded gear. He is one of my instructors and easily stands 6'2" and around 210 lbs. Using the skills she was taught, my daughter was able to fend him off of her and get away. Five months later, my daughter had to use those skills when she was physically attacked by a guy in her dorm. She wasn't raped....just knocked around a little, but those skills she learned became very critical in helping her defend herself.

Women can be taught and should be taught. The problem is lack of education. Even in the US, few women actually get trained to defend themselves against rape. That percentage is even lower or non-existant in places where "rape culture" is prevalent.

Eidolon23

UnifiedSerenity

I agree that this video will have zero effect in those countries, and the only real way to change it is to change the attitude about women,and since men run the show and approve of this attitude it's not going to change,

Another poster pointed out that this video was produced by "privileged" women, but do you picture those who have no access (i.e. the majority) throwing any light on the issue?

The women there are basically screwed and not even thanked.

"THANKED?"

Wut?

Like they're giving something by having sex that they gain nothing from?

It's sort of a backhanded statement that if someone is going to screw you they can at least thank you, but I guess you have not heard that statement before. Nevermind.

AthlonSavage
I think rape is a carry over ideology of the crusades of old, invade, plunder pillage, rape. Its one of the roots of the humans race (pardon the pun)

edit on 15-11-2013 by AthlonSavage because: (no reason given)

You know dolphins rape too? It's not just a human thing. Rape is about selfishness, power, anger, and control. It's the purest form of survival of the fittest, and women learned a long time ago to play the "game" in choosing mates who cold protect them, and as society has changed the game has changed.

The more society breaks down the more we will see violence against women. Look at how women are treated in war. Men take and they try to survive. When you have a society of misogynists is it any surprise the terrible abuse the women experience? What really amazes me is the lack of love for women. Each man has a mother, many have sisters and wives and would they want them raped? Most likely no, but other women they see as just items to use.

Rape is the worst thing that can be done to a woman on so many levels it is a brutal attack physically to her body that will take time to heal. Mentally brutal that will leave emotional scars that will take even longer to heal if they ever completely heal.
It is one of the most destructive acts that can be commited to a woman that I could ever imagine.
There is no excuse for it, if a woman says no then that is the end of it, even if she starts to be physical and changes her mind for whatever reason then it is time to stop. I have been on dates with women and we were drinking and it has gotten to the point that I thought it would be wrong to have sex with her even though she was consenting I felt it would have been wrong so I took her home or put her in my bed and slept on the sofa, and the next day explained what happened and gained alot od respect from them for not being a D-BAG. I had a friend who called me and told me he had went out with a girl and she got drunk and passed out in his room and he undressed her and took pics. But didnt touch her. I stopped talking. to him after that. I respect women, I adore women and I think anyony that rapes a woman ahould be put away for a long time and have the same thing happen to them every day until they are released. Rapist and child abusers are the scum of the earth and dont deserve to walk free. And as it has been said that you will do more time for a little pot or having a pill that was not perscribed to you then you do for committing rape is outrageous.
And Ladies.... there is nothing you can do or wear to make rape your fault. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to have their head examined with a lead pipe.

calstorm
Sadly I have even seen that attitude here on ATS. I have defiantly seen it by the police, when I called 911 when my neighbor was being raped. It was her fault for leaving the door unlocked while waiting for her kids to come home from school.

Yeah, the reason this attitude exists (the confusion anyhow) is because many times there are cases where no on gets the full story.

Kids lie to parents, parents lie to kids. You neighbour could easily lie to you the same.

I am not saying they are, so please do not take this the wrong way.

But the bottom line is, yes, to the casual observer, every rape is rape. Unfortunately, for the police and the people who actually have to deal with it, or try getting at the truth. They find out it's more than an "unlocked door" and in fact, it's someone the girl called over. Maybe she was drunk and considered it rape once her hangover kicked in. Maybe she decided midway through. All cases have context, and in many there is a backstory which suggests it's not so cut and dry, but to the casual observer, you feel guilty questioning their heartache don't you?

These cases are just as rampant as actual rape, so… Kind of a tough subject.

There does exist in many cultures "rape culture", like Africa, some Muslim places, some Asian countries, India. The latter two, where someone from a rural area, or a lower caste, cannot be raped so long as it's a higher-born person doing it. So yes, I agree something needs to be done about that.

Oh and you have the rape culture in the US prison system, god knows that isn't helping stateside.

Pretending that every victim is a victim just because they claim so, though, is just a way to create victims of falsely accused rape. There needs to be a cut and dry method of determining the act, someone hiding in the bushes is a good indicator.

Sadly there is too much of the "I found out my bf was cheating on me so I retract my months of consent. he's a rapist!"

reply to post by whitewave




Quote from your post:-


"I don't doubt the reports of your beauty, but don't think for a minute that you
were assaulted for that reason."


I totally agree with that statement as there have been many reports of elderly
women ( 60 to 90 years of age ) having been raped (can you imagine that trauma?)
Rape is more often a control issue rather than lust ... just because they can!!

eletheia
reply to post by whitewave

 

Quote from your post:-


"I don't doubt the reports of your beauty, but don't think for a minute that you
were assaulted for that reason."


I totally agree with that statement as there have been many reports of elderly
women ( 60 to 90 years of age ) having been raped (can you imagine that trauma?)
Rape is more often a control issue rather than lust ... just because they can!!

I agree, and I'll be ugly here and say something a true rapist would think if she were not pretty:

"She should feel lucky I raped her, nobody else wants her"


You know this idea of control is interesting. How many men think of attractive lesbians, "Well, she just hasn't been with the right man, if I were with her, she'd love sex with a guy." They have no clue that lesbians are not with women because they don't like sex with men (obviously some women detest it) but they are attracted to and connect emotionally with women.

I have known a lot of beautiful lesbians and they get hit on by men all the time and even though they tell them no thank you, I am with a woman, the men keep at them and even say, "You just haven't tried me." and "You can't be a lesbian, you're too beautiful." and then some get angry and think she just needs to be F***ed right, and rape them feeling justified because she is so screwed up and obviously God hates lesbians so he's just trying to help them get right with God.

You see, it's really all about ego, power, and control. "I'm horny, she took my money by going out with me to dinner and the movies so she owes me." Rape is a sin issue plain and simple, and it's really sad that so many men can justify it in their minds and still call themselves Christians (speaking about Americans). 75% of American men claim to be Christian and yet 1 in 3 girls is sexually abused.

This alone tells me they are not true Christians, but wolves in sheep's clothing following a tradition in their family. I can only imagine how bad things may get when the SHTF.

The vast majority of the time it is not the woman's fault for being raped. This is common sense, as people have certain rights that should not be violated. But I do think that some woman have done quite a bit of harm to the issue in general, as there are many "fake" rape cases, where someone is accused despite no rape had taken place. My point is that some women use this rape card, proving that it is not just the "men" with the power.

I think the punishment for a rapist should be on par with the punishment for someone who falsely accuses someone of rape. Why? Because of the power issue, like I just stated. Some men use their physical power to overpower a woman and rape her. And some women will use the current beliefs regarding rape to accuse someone, thinking that she will get the sympathy or something, or that the man will automatically be thought guilty.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity




There is some truth in some of the points you made, However .......


I would leave the religious angle entirely out of it! There are people, and there

are 'evil' people, I bet rapist's come in all religious hues?

Religion isn't a pre requisite for good ..... dare I mention sex and the celibate

catholic priest in the same sentence??

JiggyPotamus
The vast majority of the time it is not the woman's fault for being raped. This is common sense, as people have certain rights that should not be violated. But I do think that some woman have done quite a bit of harm to the issue in general, as there are many "fake" rape cases, where someone is accused despite no rape had taken place. My point is that some women use this rape card, proving that it is not just the "men" with the power.

I think the punishment for a rapist should be on par with the punishment for someone who falsely accuses someone of rape. Why? Because of the power issue, like I just stated. Some men use their physical power to overpower a woman and rape her. And some women will use the current beliefs regarding rape to accuse someone, thinking that she will get the sympathy or something, or that the man will automatically be thought guilty.

A woman may falsely 'cry rape' but I doubt if a man has ever been convicted of the

crime without evidence of physical trauma or DNA proof.


A victim of rape more often than not ends up getting raped twice once when

the actual deed is done and for the second time when evidence is taken and

during the case!....... OOP's I think that would be three times

reply to post by whitewave


lol it took a few years of therapy with a specialist to not be afraid to go out of my house anymore so it definitely damaged me. I was also urged to not report it, which didn't help matters at all and only served to lock in PTSD. I developed agoraphobia to the extent where I'd stare at my door fearful that someone else would notice and attack me. The fear was absolutely irrational and I knew it logically. I just was a slave to fear.

I actually thought the video was great because it really showed the absurdity of many (if not all) of the responses to rape that are often given. The actresses within the video gain increasing physical injuries in the video which drives a nice undertone of the battery that often accompanies rape. I think it's good for most of the population but will a rapist watch it and be moved to stop? Absolutely not.

When I was assaulted, my attacker slammed my head against a wall repeatedly until one sharp blow knocked me out. When I woke back up, he was no longer on me but sitting beside me, crying, apologizing and saying that he didn't mean to kill me. He was so startled when my eyes opened and I sat up, that it allowed me a chance to run away to safety. That whole part of the episode confounded me for a long while until I realized what it possibly meant. Yes, a rapist does what he (or she) does for control and power but, like you said, it's because they have no control over themselves. They are deeply imbalanced and ruled by impulsiveness. They can cry and feel remorse over their own actions but that will not change what is wrong with them. This is why sex offenders cannot be rehabilitated. They do know what they do. They can hate themselves for it. They'll still do it again.

Also for those who think that learning self defense can prevent it, that's not always the case. I was trained and very talented in military hand to hand and judo. I still got raped. That was another source of frustration because so many women chimed in on what they would've done had they been in my shoes as if I was somehow too weak to defend myself. "I would have kneed him in the crotch and run"--not so easy when you're tackled to the ground and the dude is between your legs. I fought like hell. That's why he was bashing my head against the wall so bloody hard.

WhiteAlice
Yes, a rapist does what he (or she) does for control and power but, like you said, it's because they have no control over themselves. They are deeply imbalanced and ruled by impulsiveness. They can cry and feel remorse over their own actions but that will not change what is wrong with them. This is why sex offenders cannot be rehabilitated. They do know what they do. They can hate themselves for it. They'll still do it again.

Forgive me, I don't want to speak out of turn, but 99.9% of the time they can control it, otherwise they would be locked up long before they actually commit a rape. Yes, they have abnormal compulsions, abnormal thought processes, but they can and do control that most of the time, and only strike when the right set of circumstances present themselves when they are least likely to be caught doing what they know is socially and criminally wrong. He cried because he felt sorry for himself, that wasn't remorse, it was self-pity. He may make excuses for his behaviour, but please don't you go doing it for him too, there is no excuse. He must have encountered women every day, in the street, at work, if he was impulsive, not in control of his actions, then he wouldn't wait for the opportunity to present itself, he would be grabbing each and every woman that he encountered. Most men do not rape, even the most mentally imbalanced, legally insane men, those from the worst possible upbringing, they just wouldn't ever think it, or dream of it. A rapist doesn't rape because he can, he rapes because he is inadequate, and because he fantasizes about rape, after that, it is merely a matter of opportunity, unless he seeks help breaking that fantasy pattern. You were in the wrong place, at the wrong time with the wrong person. No fault of yours whatsoever, if it hadn't been you, it would eventually have been someone else. One way or another, he chose to be a rapist.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


Really very good points. They are definitely like predators, or as another poster stated, "wolves in sheep's clothing" and I absolutely agree that they are opportunistic. One kind of interesting thing that my therapist said (she was, btw, a rape victim specialist) was that they will frequently target those who have already been victimized in one way or another and the fact that I had been raped actually increased the chances of it happening again. They are incredibly predatory and it's really not unlike a lion snagging the faltering young water buffalo who strays from the herd. So absolutely agreed that they do have some control and in terms of remorse, I do also agree that it is more self driven than anything else. They may hate the monsters within but at the end of the day, they are still monsters despite that momentary self loathing after the fact. I sometimes wonder how many sex offenders are actually sociopaths.

Awesome points.

I had earlier made a thread on how Hentai and manga was unconsciously promoting rapes on children and women , but the mods deleted it .. Does the things we see or watch have an influence on our subconscious minds , which gives them compulsions unknowingly ?


and no... this is not just a problem with Middle Easters or Indians or anyone else... stop getting so deluded by the media coverage

reply to post by calstorm


Well I can tell you as a prior cop...about 75% of all rape reports are complete bull#...sadly I think the ones that really do happen go unreported. And we always responded to every call and took it seriously. If you know a cop ask them...how many rape cases they handled..then ask them how many they felt really happened.

Rape is probably the 2nd worst crime I can think of and it has become a tool for women to get attention or out of trouble. I bet the majority of the cases I handled involved a woman who cheated on her bf...bf found out..she cries rape. Guy is investigated/arrested sometimes even...only to go to jury trial after years more of investigation to find out it was all made up. Then they do nothing to the "victim" because well we cant arrest someone like that for filing a false police report because it may prevent other victims from coming forward. Its pretty easy to tell the real ones from the fake ones. And the fake ones ruin lives.

*edit I speak only for the American system

reply to post by cosmicexplorer


For those who are horrified by the post above, here's an article that offers an explanation, and a possible solution.

When Tom Tremblay started working for the police department of Burlington, Vt., 30 years ago, he discovered that many of his fellow cops rarely believed a rape victim. This was true time after time, in dozens of cases. Tremblay could see why they were doubtful once he started interviewing the victims himself. The victims, most of them women, often had trouble recalling an attack or couldn’t give a chronological account of it. Some expressed no emotion. Others smiled or laughed as they described being assaulted. “Unlike any other crime I responded to in my career, there was always this thought that a rape report was a false report,” says Tremblay, who was an investigator in Burlington’s sex crimes unit. “I was always bothered by the fact there was this shroud of doubt.”

Tremblay felt sex assault victims were telling the truth, and data supports his instincts: Only an estimated 2 to 8 percent of rape accusations are false, according to a survey of the literature published by the National Center for the Prosecution of Violence Against Women...

In the past decade, neurobiology has evolved to explain why victims respond in ways that make it seem like they could be lying, even when they’re not. Using imaging technology, scientists can identify which parts of the brain are activated when a person contemplates a traumatic memory such as sexual assault. The brain’s prefrontal cortex—which is key to decision-making and memory—often becomes temporarily impaired. The amygdala, known to encode emotional experiences, begins to dominate, triggering the release of stress hormones and helping to record particular fragments of sensory information. Victims can also experience tonic immobility—a sensation of being frozen in place—or a dissociative state. These types of withdrawal result from extreme fear yet often make it appear as if the victim did not resist the assault.

This is why, experts say, sexual assault victims often can’t give a linear account of an attack and instead focus on visceral sensory details like the smell of cologne or the sound of voices in the hallway. “That’s simply because their brain has encoded it in this fragmented way,” says David Lisak, a clinical psychologist and forensic consultant who trains civilian and military law enforcement to understand victim and offender behavior.

www.slate.com...[/ex ]