Tai Chi and evolution

This is like just my opinion but I'll go out on a limb and say that there is NO real CHI work in Tai Chi. If developing Chi is ones goal there are better martial arts such as what Tai Chi came from like Rou Chuan. Theres even an art called Chi Gong. Where one develops the ability to "manipulate" their energy. But from what I can see Tai Chi is just the study of proper anatomical alignment for energy transfer, and understanding the best lever or method to transfer said energy to a desired place. Usually the striking surface or surface of body part intended to be use as a fulcrum or lever.

Tai Chi in its orginal form Chen Village Style went between slow gentle flowing movements to sudden explosive tense strikes. It wasn't all whip like in developing power like the more modern Yang Styles and hybrids. Which is what most people see doing in the parks. Break down Tai Chi's movements and they are exactly the same as any other martial art. Even the strikes. Tai CHi is just focuses more so on the details to develop better muscle memory. Thats all. You are not feeling your "Chi" move around your body. You are developing an awareness and sensitivity to what the kinetic transfer of energy within your body is doing. Eventually you get good enough with that that you are sensitive and experienced enough to know cause and effect for this kinetic energy transfer. Ie. Move here like so energy goes that way, but potential energy builds in the opposite direction. Look at the movement single whip. ( Most people including the "Tai Chi Masters" do it wrong. because they don't understand the principal the movement is trying to demonstrate) but it's "chi" secret is as simple and as mysterious as a reciprocating engine or two pistons on a crank shaft. No "Chi" there.

Now I have experienced actual Chi Gong practice and meditation. The two experiences (Tai Chi Vs Chi Gong) aren't the same. Don't feel the same, don't do the same thing. Real Chi Gong feels like you are building up a charge in a capacitor. And it takes a long time of effort to get good or fast enough to build up a substancial charge for anything to happen of benefit. My theory to describe what seems to be going on is that the practicioner through intent is drawing more energy from the background. Sorta like zero point energy. There is a certain amount of energy in any space. Chi Gong masters just learn how to tune into it more and draw more of it in. Kinda like having a better antenna to get a better signal. The Chi Gong guys are really just working on that antenna. Learning through intent and developing sensitivity to access and utilize more of the same energy tat is around us in everything. No not the force. Maybe some sort of quantum zero point energy or something similar.

A lot of internal martial arts have different examples of what they believe proper chi is. They all try and mystify it. But when you break down what they are doing. Like say the various internal forces of say southern Kung Fu systems. Spit, Float, Sink, swallow. They all call it the Chi Gong internal aspect of their arts and how indispensible they are to truly understanding the system. Well no duh. They are the basic force vectors one can apply energy to in a given combative situation. Nothing mystical and CHi about it. But don't tell them that.

What some others consider Chi and internal martial arts also appears to be learning how to regulate ones sympathetic nervous system responses when in duress. The calmer one gets in a fight, usually developed through repetative experiences (ie sparring, drills, actual altercations) almost never from simple meditation, the easier and more masterful they will be in said fight. However they are not using Chi Gong any more than anyone else. But they will call it internal chi or something similar.

Chi is a word that gets thrown around a lot in martial arts. Usually to mystify it, give it more meaning or substance than it really does. Also most martial arts have different opinions of what chi is, how it is developed and utilized. Compare Bagua and Xing Yi. Bagua says chi is created only through spiral motions when energy is developed, collected and then discharged at the striking point. Silk reeling energy and all that. Very similar to a tai chi player. Never mond things like kinetic linking and all the scientific jargen that perfectly expains whats going on. Nope it's mystical chi and they are getting their power through some mystical energy not basic physics. If the Baqua and Tai Chi folks have internal chi gong then so do and even more so the capoeira folks. They sure as hell have a better understanding of kinetic linking. Lets go back to Xing Yi. "intention fist" (more or less in translation) It says chi is developed and discharged like a snake getting ready to strike. Builds up the potential energy and then bam discharges it all at once in a single powerful blow. But break it down. What are they really doing? Xing Yi guys stay loose, then vault their bodies towards there opponent just like a decent boxer and then at the last moment they tense u the striking surface. Ie a loose hand that tenses up into a fist at the last second before impact while the body is transfering it's kinetic energy in the form of its total body mass towards the target. Watch what hits first in the xing yi guys and the a lot of the southern kung fu guys. The punch lands before the foot lands, so all of the body's mass and kinetic energy discharges via the striking surface and not via the foot landing onto the ground. Force vectors again. The Xing Yi guys call it internal martial arts and chi magic. The rest of the world calls it physics. A lot of martial arts in indonesia and india do the same thing. You'll notice they stomp their foot or drop from the balls of their feet to their heel right as they land a strike. Force vectors. But they don't call it chi, just proper form when punching. Watch mike tyson throw an tight upper cut from the inside and forget about his punch. Watch his feet. They will be doing the exact same thing I described.

Not sure why certain asian cultures went crazy on the Chi thing. ANd others saw it as basic physics and no mystery at all.

reply to post by BASSPLYR

Tai Chi in its orginal form Chen Village Style went between slow gentle flowing movements to sudden explosive tense strikes.

Like I said. Draw the arrow, nock it, aim, fire. Collecting potential energy and redirecting it as kinetic energy. Manipulating the body's natural reservoirs.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


100% correct. It's just basic physics. Not sure why a lot of martial arts chose to make proper body alignment a mystical secret while others were more practical and felt it was just physics.

My post was sorta hard to read and rambled a lot. But you are correct.

All said I am not big into the Chi aspects of martial arts. Most of it is just physics, mumbo jumbo, and BS. But there is that tinsy bit thats hard to explain. I've seen what I would call a guy who was adept at real chi gong do some pretty paranormal stuff (above the ability of normal, not referring to ghosts) but even what I saw him be able to do, and he spent 15 years or more at the actual Shaolin Temple on Song Shan ( no not the touristy part) studying just Chi GOng and it's derivatives was not spectacular. Yes I saw him blow out candles that were 6 feet away by pointing a them. Even held one while he blew it out with his chi and I swear I felt like a slight slap of energy. Kind of like when you stand too close to your buddy when he's firing a pistol indoors at the range and you get that almost electrical zap from the vibrations of the overpressure from the gun shot. But it wasn't disabling or even that impressive other than the fact that he seemed to project his intent or energy beyond his physical body in very limited ways and in very limited amount of force. Heck the guys has such control over his nervous system that he can (and I've seen him do this) dialate his pupils at will. from pinpoint to children of the corn sized. Dabbled in the Chi GOng for a while. felt its good and negative effects but discarded it in the end for practicality and the fact that it doesn't amount to much in the end. Still enjoy doing Xi Sui jing from time to time in the park though. Oxiginates the blood pretty well.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by borntowatch

 

In modern commentaries, Kundalini has been called an unconscious, instinctive or libidinal force.
It is reported that Kundalini awakening results in deep meditation, enlightenment and bliss. Many systems of yoga focus on the awakening of Kundalini through meditation, pranayama breathing, the practice of asana and chanting of mantras. In physical terms, one commonly reported Kundalini experience is a feeling like electric current running along the spine.

That's what Wikipedia has to say on the subject. Google can point the way if you want more. Make of it what you will. Sounds like something in the base of the spine affects the electrostatic channels of the human body. The Merkabah is one benefit of fully awakening and harnessing the Kundalini energies.

edit on 14-11-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

You are talking about the root flame burning are you not when you describe electrostatic flow? Not sure I agree with the short description since the people experiencing it is not always bliss full all the time. Even if they feel bodily bliss the can be mentally disconnected from what is around them and feel lonely.

You can from my experiance feel ki/chi/light physically if you go to any healer/manifestor that knows how to manifest energy from intent or if you increase your sensitivity. .

What is your definition of Merkabah? An ability? 7 chakras that are activated and bodily feelt?

reply to post by borntowatch


Chi/ki/light is the energy that exists around us and thru us that we can use manifest what we want either symbiotic or not. Some become very good at flowing it thru them to manifest healing in other people both mental and physical. According to scripture Jesus was very good at it.

reply to post by borntowatch


Star and flag for you, my friend.

Where did the first life form obtain its energy from and how did it sustain its energy, how did this life form increase its energy source to a point where it could replicate itself?

If more people asked questions like this, genuine understanding of evolution would be much more widespread than it is.

The answer is chemical energy. Don't know if you studied chemistry in school, but if you did you probably remember being told that energy is stored in the chemical bonds that hold the component atoms of molecules together. Breaking these bonds releases the energy, which can then be used to power other chemical reactions that build new molecules, or be converted into kinetic energy to move things around.

The first 'life-form' was probably just a single complex organic molecule that self-assembled from simpler molecules through a series of such reactions. Viruses are barely more complicated than this; some of them are made of just two molecules, a twist of RNA and a protein coat. The first replicator probably couldn't move under its own power or do anything much but float inertly in the chemical soup in which it formed, but it could use other molecules in the soup to assemble a copy of itself. This is still pretty much what DNA and RNA do today.

The energy for all this fitting-together might come from the molecules themselves. Or it might come from molecules in the surrounding soup, sunlight, a geothermal vent in the ocean floor, lightning, cosmic rays, etc.

reply to post by borntowatch

I was under the impression that energy dispelled. Entropy

Not dispelled, dispersed. There's a difference. It simply means that the energy isn't readily available to do work, and in this context we're talking about the thermodynamic definition of work. The energy is still there. I think one of the earlier posters was correct -- when you're using "energy" to describe something, it helps if you define what you mean by "energy". The term gets thrown around in so many contexts and so misused that it's almost meaningless in any given conversation without some kind of explicit definition.

reply to post by LittleByLittle

What is your definition of Merkabah? An ability? 7 chakras that are activated and bodily feelt?

It has several meanings that are reflections and translations of one another. One such meaning is the art by which one makes use of the Kundalini. Another meaning is the electrostatic vehicle by which our consciousness may traverse time-space.

No idea why I can't get the video to be uploaded, but the video talks about or gives some introduction to the Buddhist belly breathing meditation "Tummo", where it rumored to increase body temperature.


Chi is said to be much like steam in some eastern philosophies

Well look at that. The link did work.

reply to post by borntowatch


To answer your question about what energy you use in Tai chi and where does it come from; here is a description of the energies that you use, nurture and cultivate in Tai Chi.


In its most basic form you call it Chi (Chin: Energy), not to be confused with the Chi (ultimate) in the word Tai Chi (Chin: Grand Ultimate).

Chi is simply the aggregate energy of all energies in a living system.

This includes the energy gained through food in the metabolic cycles, the chemical energy that is created through combining carbon based foods with oxygen.

As well as more internal and "occult" energies, such as libidinal energies, WILL power (or spirit), motivation and concentration.

It also includes "physical" energies, such as correct alignment, muscle power and power generation through body dynamics.

In the ancient Chinese way of thinking, these forces are the 5 elements (fire, earth, water, wood, metal) combined with Shen (spirit). Scientific semantics have better ways of describing these forces, as I have tried to do.

Tai Chi, as well as other martial and health arts, have a focus on controlling, guiding, cultivating and using these forces to perfection.


I would be happy to answer any more questions, as I teach Martial Arts for a living, and I really love this subject.

I wonder if DNA/RNA is like a program of the Universe.

What I mean is, it is becoming obvious DNA is a coding language for Electrical, Data, and mechanical Biological systems.

What level does the coding exist.

Did it take someone to drop seeds on our planet to introduce it or does it blossom naturally in the Universe like it is a built in Application for the Universe as the Universe is the Operating System.

Either way the Universe is the Operating System for the DNA Application.

Does it need to be seeded or does it naturally sprout from the fabric of space. Maybe another Dimension....

The planet may have been seeded if we are basing it on our ancient stories.

If so, What made the seeder. Then what or who made what made the seeder and so on...

reply to post by fedeykin


I agree with this post right here. Also your mention of the Taoist 5 elements. Very cool. I too agree that science has better semantics to describe whats going on with the inter-relationships of those "elements' I like to look at Taoist 5 elements as a ancient way of describing thermodynamic interaction and energy flow. TO me that also the lesson in the martial arts like Xing YI about the 5 elements. Look at Splitting fist and compare it to drilling fist or pounding fist or crossing fist. To me the concept is. OK a incoming force of energy (punch) is manifesting it's self using these characteristics (straight punch), Splitting fist best redirects this type of energy into something I can counter with. The opponent might then go, hey he just countered my beng chuen with pi chuen. Better use drilling fist or heng chaun since they both do well in redirecting this sort of energy and converting it into this type of force. etc.. TO me that is the real study behind 5 elements and martial arts. Just a way of charting thermodynamics but old school.

Astyanax
reply to post by borntowatch

 

Star and flag for you, my friend.

Where did the first life form obtain its energy from and how did it sustain its energy, how did this life form increase its energy source to a point where it could replicate itself?

If more people asked questions like this, genuine understanding of evolution would be much more widespread than it is.

The answer is chemical energy. Don't know if you studied chemistry in school, but if you did you probably remember being told that energy is stored in the chemical bonds that hold the component atoms of molecules together. Breaking these bonds releases the energy, which can then be used to power other chemical reactions that build new molecules, or be converted into kinetic energy to move things around.

The first 'life-form' was probably just a single complex organic molecule that self-assembled from simpler molecules through a series of such reactions. Viruses are barely more complicated than this; some of them are made of just two molecules, a twist of RNA and a protein coat. The first replicator probably couldn't move under its own power or do anything much but float inertly in the chemical soup in which it formed, but it could use other molecules in the soup to assemble a copy of itself. This is still pretty much what DNA and RNA do today.

The energy for all this fitting-together might come from the molecules themselves. Or it might come from molecules in the surrounding soup, sunlight, a geothermal vent in the ocean floor, lightning, cosmic rays, etc.

`

Astyanax
reply to post by borntowatch

 

Star and flag for you, my friend.

Where did the first life form obtain its energy from and how did it sustain its energy, how did this life form increase its energy source to a point where it could replicate itself?

If more people asked questions like this, genuine understanding of evolution would be much more widespread than it is.

The answer is chemical energy. Don't know if you studied chemistry in school, but if you did you probably remember being told that energy is stored in the chemical bonds that hold the component atoms of molecules together. Breaking these bonds releases the energy, which can then be used to power other chemical reactions that build new molecules, or be converted into kinetic energy to move things around.

The first 'life-form' was probably just a single complex organic molecule that self-assembled from simpler molecules through a series of such reactions. Viruses are barely more complicated than this; some of them are made of just two molecules, a twist of RNA and a protein coat. The first replicator probably couldn't move under its own power or do anything much but float inertly in the chemical soup in which it formed, but it could use other molecules in the soup to assemble a copy of itself. This is still pretty much what DNA and RNA do today.

The energy for all this fitting-together might come from the molecules themselves. Or it might come from molecules in the surrounding soup, sunlight, a geothermal vent in the ocean floor, lightning, cosmic rays, etc.

`

I cant see how a chemical reaction can create or spark life.
, then assuming that energy is there, how is it increased.
Where does the stored energy in chemical bonds come from

reply to post by borntowatch

I cant see how a chemical reaction can create or spark life.

Life is all chemical reactions.

then assuming that energy is there, how is it increased.

Why do you think it has to be increased?

Where does the stored energy in chemical bonds come from

Electromagnetism.