The Atmos Clock: Perpetual Motion Machine

By doing a search and reading some posts already made on this topic, it seems there is agreement that the Atmos clock, which is powered by temperature and atmospheric pressure changes in the environment, is a perpetual motion machine.

I think it’s interesting that the Wikipedia article on the clock broaches the subject of perpetual motion by saying this:

. . . The first clock powered by changes in atmospheric pressure and temperature was invented by Cornelis Drebbel in the early seventeenth century. Drebbel built as many as 18 of these, the two most notable being for King James VI & I of Britain, and Rudolf II of Bohemia. The King James clock was known as the Eltham Perpetuum, and was famous throughout Europe. It is mentioned in two works of Ben Jonson.

There is a similar clock, the Beverly clock, that is on display at a university in New Zealand.

What I want to know is why has the establishment not admitted that perpetual motion machines do exist?

Mary Rose
What I want to know is why has the establishment not admitted that perpetual motion machines do exist?

Because they don't. These clocks are powered by changes in temperature and atmospheric pressure. If the temperature and pressure remain constant, the clocks will stop working.

Mary Rose
the Atmos clock, which is powered by temperature and atmospheric pressure changes in the environment, is a perpetual motion machine.

What I want to know is why has the establishment not admitted that perpetual motion machines do exist?

Its a definition thing.
If you expand the definition of "perpetual motion machine" to include anything powered by "the environment", then that would basically mean whole cities powered by hydroelectricity generators are also perpetual motion machines.

By expanding the definition to "anything goes", it loses any real meaning or significance.

Yea like other posters said, I think the idea of perpetual motion machine (the one denied possible) is that it is a closed system that can sustain doing more work then work needed to make it do work. In your case solar panels in sunny places and water wheels and wind farms etc. are in ways perpetual motion machines, or near perpetual motion machines, or at least machines that yield more energy then it takes energy to yield that energy. So yes perpetual motion machines or near free energy machines are possible when using continual massive energetic attributes of nature like sun,wind, water.

An interesting topic, however I don't find perpetual motion to fall under the same category as atmospheric and temperature changes.

reply to post by Hokie812


What would have to power it to qualify as perpetual motion? And what difference does it make as long as the clock does not have to be wound or run by electricity or batteries?

reply to post by Mary Rose

Perpetual motion describes motion that continues indefinitely without any external source of energy.[2] This is impossible in practice because of friction and other sources of energy loss.[3][4][5] Furthermore, the term is often used in a stronger sense to describe a perpetual motion machine of the first kind, a "hypothetical machine which, once activated, would continue to function and produce work"[6] indefinitely with no input of energy. There is a scientific consensus that perpetual motion is impossible, as it would violate the first or second law of thermodynamics.[4][5]

en.wikipedia.org...

The "atmos clock" is powered by atmospheric pressure, which in turn uses energy from the sun. That is the external power source.

reply to post by GetHyped


So, even if the clock were somehow to run on zero-point energy extracted from the environment, it would still not be a perpetual motion machine?

reply to post by Mary Rose


The clock in your OP is powered by atmospheric pressure, not zero point energy.

Mary Rose
reply to post by GetHyped

 

So, even if the clock were somehow to run on zero-point energy extracted from the environment, it would still not be a perpetual motion machine?

yup,
it's all about moving the goal posts and controlling definitions.

else the planet we're on would easily be understood to be a PMM.

reply to post by Metaphysique


The definition of perpetual motion is very clear. Neither OP's clock nor Earth qualify as perpetual motion machines.

reply to post by Metaphysique


As well as the atom, correct?

GetHyped
reply to post by Metaphysique

 

The definition of perpetual motion is very clear. Neither OP's clock nor Earth qualify as perpetual motion machines.

nope, the definition is very clearly controlled,

and acts just like those blinders they put on racehorses.

address that, instead of repeating dogma.

Mary Rose
reply to post by Metaphysique

 

As well as the atom, correct?

DING! DING! DING!

We have a winner!

see how clear things become when you take off the blinders of limiting/controlling definitions ?

reply to post by Metaphysique


You mean when you redefine clear and commonly understood definitions to be so vague as to apply to almost anything? How is that in any way useful to a discussion?

GetHyped
reply to post by Metaphysique

 

You mean when you redefine clear and commonly understood definitions to be so vague as to apply to almost anything? How is that in any way useful to a discussion?

not at all, that's just your spin on it

but keep on moving those goalposts ...

Hmm perpetual motion threads are perpetually appearing. Now if only I could stick magnets in the right configuration to these threads why I'd have unlimited power!

*rubs hands*

reply to post by Metaphysique


It's ironic you accuse me of moving the goalposts for sticking to the proper definition of the term "perpetual motion machine" when you are the one who's actually moving the goalposts by redefining the term to make it mean whatever happens to suite your agenda.

Here is the definition of perpetual-motion machine from Dictionary.com:

A machine that could run forever. A perpetual-motion machine would have to produce at least as much energy as was needed for its operation. . . .
The American Heritage® New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition

That sounds like what most people think of.

It seems that the design of the clock to make use of the environment is what makes it produce the needed energy.

winofiend
Hmm perpetual motion threads are perpetually appearing. Now if only I could stick magnets in the right configuration to these threads why I'd have unlimited power!

*rubs hands*

hook get hyped to it...