The Mark Of A Christian

I will just get to the point and ask, what is the mark of a christian?

1. Belief
   
2. Behavior
   
3. Both
   
4. Other
   

It would be a safe to assume actions speak louder than words and thus would be a good indicator of ones beliefs. The problem is that there are many who claim to be christian without any actions so I get confused. If someone just professes faith in their deity of love and walks by those in need with a proud face, how strong is their belief?

It seems like the "good book" spoke of action, the message that provokes action. Today is seems like the mark of a christian is judgment and a list of what is wrong with everyone and everything. So anytime I hear someone say they are a christian I think of someone who just sits on their ass and does nothing but judge and condemn. Now I know not every christian is like that and for those who aren't I applaud you but unfortunately you are a rare breed.

So I ask your opinion, what is the mark of a christian?

Ralphy
I think of someone who just sits on their ass and does nothing but judge and condemn.

Awww. . .you said a bad word. . .you're going to get in trouble.

True, it seems most Christians are so quick to judge that their minds are so closed to any "new" ideas or ways of living.

I can't stand the judgmental attitudes that I have received from "Christians".

Somebody that is unwilling to judge others...

2nd.

Ralphy
I will just get to the point and ask, what is the mark of a christian?

1. Belief
   
2. Behavior
   
3. Both
   
4. Other
   

It would be a safe to assume actions speak louder than words and thus would be a good indicator of ones beliefs. The problem is that there are many who claim to be christian without any actions so I get confused. If someone just professes faith in their deity of love and walks by those in need with a proud face, how strong is their belief?

It seems like the "good book" spoke of action, the message that provokes action. Today is seems like the mark of a christian is judgment and a list of what is wrong with everyone and everything. So anytime I hear someone say they are a christian I think of someone who just sits on their ass and does nothing but judge and condemn. Now I know not every christian is like that and for those who aren't I applaud you but unfortunately you are a rare breed.

So I ask your opinion, what is the mark of a christian?

Galatians 5 gives a good version. Romans 12 as well. It's a progression. First, the Father prepares a person by their faith. Once faith is engaged, the Holy Spirit is then a comforter for the person along their journey in life. Faith removes the need for law if faith engages. How does it engage? Hope and love. Love manifests by thoughts, words and deeds. It's a process of refinement as a guardian would use to guide a child to adulthood. You find many immature children in the world, even children of God.

Galatians 5

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

Also, Romans 12

9 Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. 10 Be devoted to one another in love. Honor one another above yourselves. 11 Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. 12 Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. 13 Share with the Lord’s people who are in need. Practice hospitality.

14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. 15 Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. 16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited.

17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone. 18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19 Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[d] says the Lord. 20 On the contrary:

“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”[e]
21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

It is possible to take the name of the Christ in vain. The name is the character. As you say, there are many Christians who take the name in vain. Don't confuse this with standing for truth. Many people mistake the person holding the theological position with the subject they deliver. Always separate the two if the message is what I have outlined above. Truth is evident. It's also a sWord with a double edge. It not only cuts the hands of the person that holds it, but it cuts the heart of those who hear it.

reply to post by Ralphy

what is the mark of a christian?

Affect regulation.

2nd

whyamIhere
Somebody that is unwilling to judge others...

2nd.

I'm sorry, what?

I think and have observed over time that the "Mark" of a christian has to be an inability to take ownership of the life they live, to decide what is right and wrong for themselves. For example, from my world view, the "Born again" variety tend to come from places they were not in control and were headed for the wall at high speed! By placing god in the drivers seat, they swerve at the last minute and, in a cloud of glorious dust, emerge victorious. They now have a plan, a design for their lives that they lacked before. The other breed just inherited the dream and had they been born five thousand miles in any other direction, would have prayed to another variety of god. Somehow I view them as... well, sheep!
For me it would be just wonderful if they could just adopt the ten commandments and get on with life because even as a non believer, I recognize the wisdom contained in those ten ideals. My point being, drawn out I admit, I don't see anything in your choices in your list of potential mark identifiers that sticks to my ribs.

FraternitasSaturni

whyamIhere
Somebody that is unwilling to judge others...

2nd.

I'm sorry, what?

You know....That whole Judge not, lest ye be judged.

I try to live my life by it.

reply to post by Ralphy


From my point of view it should be a level of patience that is bordering to insanity. That is what I think both Jesus and god represents for me and followers of Christ should have. One of the things I am lacking a lot of now days.

reply to post by Ralphy

Wait a second! If one carries the "mark"...it is of the BEAST and not a Christian. Right????? Christians carry no "mark" and Im sure would be hesitant to do so.

Wording is everything here. Agreed?

whyamIhere

FraternitasSaturni

whyamIhere
Somebody that is unwilling to judge others...

2nd.

I'm sorry, what?

You know....That whole Judge not, lest ye be judged.

I try to live my life by it.

My friend... religious people judge everything and everyone. Really. I know what you're talking about but... thats only words, not really whats reality.... well... like many other things.

reply to post by Ralphy


That's a good question, I was going to answer with belief and behavior here. Then I saw your point.

I was going to say you can tell a Christian by their behavior - they are hostile, judgmental, negative, destructive, hateful, hoard money, get angry at helping the poor with social programs, and the like.

Yet they believe in being kind, helping the poor, being a positive force on the world, being non-materialistic and the like.

I think it is safe to bet that if they believe in God, God doesn't exist. Ha - just kidding, maybe not... but they lost their way, and if God exists, he isn't happy with them

-----

See, the problem is this belief B.S., you can't believe you are acting some way, you have to simply act that way or not.

Believing you are acting a certain way doesn't make a difference if you don't act that way. Look, I just went to church last weekend for the first time in years, and the people there were singing songs and reading Bible passages that they had no understanding of the meaning behind.

No one wants that, God isn't pleased about that, they might as well not go. The feeling of being around people reading Bible passages that are basically condemning their actions and they don't even realize it or understand what they are reading is just profound.

Why they recited things they didn't even understand the meaning behind is beyond me! Maybe these people would be better off not being religious, and discovering these things through human interaction, I HONESTLY BELIEVE THIS.

Religion is not about rules, it is about reading something and saying "Oh, I get that, you know, that would have helped out this social interaction wow!" Obviously, the idea of having these rules doesn't work, so we might as well try the other option.

After some real life experience getting to know themselves and one another, maybe religious peeps can come back and read the stories and understand that it is just a story, but a story with meaning, meant to bring a community together, and understand the power the story really has - until then, I don't even know what the majority of the Christians in America are doing besides hiding behind a false faith to get away with bad behavior.

If you are asking who is going to get into Heaven if they signed the contract, it is the people who behave a certain way, even those who don't believe.

The Catholic faith and some others do allow for confession, which I think is helpful. But see, this is about humbling oneself. If you confess that you hate other people and judge them every day, I think that should be forgiven. But who is confessing that? Anyone? So it's really a moot point, that confession thing, if someone doesn't even know to confess what they did wrong.

That's just the way it is. If you steal a car and get arrested, even if you believe it's your car, it doesn't matter unless you plead insanity. So if you are saying Christians might be able to plead insanity to get into Heaven, you might be onto something.

Wow, I love your question. I'm not even sure if I answered it right.

FraternitasSaturni

whyamIhere

FraternitasSaturni

whyamIhere
Somebody that is unwilling to judge others...

2nd.

I'm sorry, what?

You know....That whole Judge not, lest ye be judged.

I try to live my life by it.

My friend... religious people judge everything and everyone. Really. I know what you're talking about but... thats only words, not really whats reality.... well... like many other things.

You just judged me?

Preconceived notions are often wrong.

FraternitasSaturni

whyamIhere

FraternitasSaturni

whyamIhere
Somebody that is unwilling to judge others...

2nd.

I'm sorry, what?

You know....That whole Judge not, lest ye be judged.

I try to live my life by it.

My friend... religious people judge everything and everyone. Really. I know what you're talking about but... thats only words, not really whats reality.... well... like many other things.

But... this judgmental nature is not reserved only for the religious... I see judgement and generalization by the OP. I see judgement and generalization from your post. I see judgement from almost all the posts. I am judging that you are guys are practicing judgement. And all these judgments are made from life experiences... But I wonder if anyone can see the big picture? Or do people only see the one dot in a pointillist painting?

Sometimes I feel like I should just stay silent about these observations I have, for fear of falling into the cycle... but sometimes I give in emotionally.

I don't know how to put it in words, but there's a different feeling around the truly faithful. Personally, I immediately recognized it, and it's like Light: you can't avoid it, it immediately captures your attention, and you recognize it for what it is. At least, this has been of my own experience.

whyamIhere

FraternitasSaturni

whyamIhere

FraternitasSaturni

whyamIhere
Somebody that is unwilling to judge others...

2nd.

I'm sorry, what?

You know....That whole Judge not, lest ye be judged.

I try to live my life by it.

My friend... religious people judge everything and everyone. Really. I know what you're talking about but... thats only words, not really whats reality.... well... like many other things.

You just judged me?

Preconceived notions are often wrong.

I think the wording should be "many religious people tend to judge everything and everyone." And I have seen that to be true with my own two eyes. They don't even know they are.

darkbake

whyamIhere

FraternitasSaturni

whyamIhere

FraternitasSaturni

whyamIhere
Somebody that is unwilling to judge others...

2nd.

I'm sorry, what?

You know....That whole Judge not, lest ye be judged.

I try to live my life by it.

My friend... religious people judge everything and everyone. Really. I know what you're talking about but... thats only words, not really whats reality.... well... like many other things.

You just judged me?

Preconceived notions are often wrong.

I think the wording should be "many religious people tend to judge everything and everyone." And I have seen that to be true with my own two eyes. They don't even know they are.

That I could agree with...

DelayedChristmas

FraternitasSaturni

whyamIhere

FraternitasSaturni

whyamIhere
Somebody that is unwilling to judge others...

2nd.

I'm sorry, what?

You know....That whole Judge not, lest ye be judged.

I try to live my life by it.

My friend... religious people judge everything and everyone. Really. I know what you're talking about but... thats only words, not really whats reality.... well... like many other things.

But... this judgmental nature is not reserved only for the religious... I see judgement and generalization by the OP. I see judgement and generalization from your post. I see judgement from almost all the posts. I am judging that you are guys are practicing judgement.

I was being pretty harsh, but that's because I see how much harm religious people have done to my community. And it makes it worse that they think they are making it a better place.

When I went to church, though, I was not judgmental. When they were reading those passages with no idea of their content, I was actually disappointed. It was like... a somewhat sinking feeling and acceptance of the futility of the church and a realization of why it has been failing.

I guess I dunno, at least the people keep the rituals in place for when the church gets back in the game as a positive force? There are also changing times with the internet age. It might be making a lot of religious people upset until their doctrine is updated.

There is an advantage for some people to have rules to follow if they are more rule-oriented than experience-oriented, but the problem is the rules are so outdated they don't function in a positive manner. Honestly, in real life, there are people who like rules so they know what to do.

darkbake

DelayedChristmas

FraternitasSaturni

whyamIhere

FraternitasSaturni

whyamIhere
Somebody that is unwilling to judge others...

2nd.

I'm sorry, what?

You know....That whole Judge not, lest ye be judged.

I try to live my life by it.

My friend... religious people judge everything and everyone. Really. I know what you're talking about but... thats only words, not really whats reality.... well... like many other things.

But... this judgmental nature is not reserved only for the religious... I see judgement and generalization by the OP. I see judgement and generalization from your post. I see judgement from almost all the posts. I am judging that you are guys are practicing judgement.

I was being pretty harsh, but that's because I see how much harm religious people have done to my community. And it makes it worse that they think they are making it a better place.

When I went to church, though, I was not judgmental. When they were reading those passages with no idea of their content, I was actually disappointed. It was like... a somewhat sinking feeling and acceptance of the futility of the church and a realization of why it has been failing.

edit on 12pmTue, 12 Nov 2013 22:05:00 -0600kbpmkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)

I completely understand... A lot of other people have shared similar experiences... As have I... It's sad... The light was supposed to shine and guide others... It does, but in a more indirect way now, which I think is better.

reply to post by DelayedChristmas


When I showed up to the church I felt like the people were receptive to my positive energy, I felt like they would be able to store it and learn from it and maintain it if it was done in the right way.

I also remember thinking there were some advantages to belonging to an organization around 2,000 years old, it can get awkward and hard to live in a society where the social rules change every 5-10 years, or your group bonds over Halo, and then Halo goes out of style, I can see advantages and disadvantages but the rules are outdated -

The rules are supposed to be helping people with trouble socially, as I said, function in a meaningful manner in society and when society changes too fast, they end up looking dumb - but the church hierarchy in the Vatican (assuming no conspiracy theories here) needs time to make what it thinks are the right changes,

We saw the last Pope step down and this new one step forward for that reason, I think. In any case, it is my opinion that rules that don't function are not as good as rules that function better.

reply to post by Ralphy


Given the reward you would think it would be joy and love, happiness and lovingkindness, or an overflowing of the bounty that is ours in Christ.

Laughing, dancing in the spirit, the Christian person would have a twinkle in their eye and a spirit of unbridled optimism and hope that would be contagious.

Their face would beam with brightness, and they would be the type of person you might like to confide in within the space of their understanding and sympathetic tenderness and compassion, forgiveness and almost motherly unconditional love.

They would be prepared to love you as much as they are loved for the sheer joy involved, and because anything less would be absurd and ridiculous in the light of the love of God in Christ.

They would not try to lecture about morality nor try to drag you kicking and screaming to the tree of the duality of the knowledge of good and evil and there demand your confession of Christ at the fear and threat of eternal hell-fire, they wouldn't DARE and ruin it for everyone, but some have tried, sadly. Pay them no heed because they cannot be a true and authentic Christian.

Bitter and angry-faced Christians who are quick to judge and who rarely laugh are about the last person in the world that anyone would want to hang out with. They are in dire need of YOUR mercy, not the other way around, because rest assured that God has a great sense of humor.

Forgive them and have mercy on them because they don't really know what they are up to, and in so doing you will be closer to Christ than they think they are.

No one has a monopoly on Jesus Christ, and as a corollary there is no amount of Christ capable of ruining a human personality.

Bear in mind that the devil most wants to get between people and the human potential to understand God in/through Jesus Christ, and that there may be no better way to accomplish such a thing than by leading Christians astray and using that to drive everyone else away, it's absurd.

Christianity isn't a set of rules to live by but the liberation to freely love as we are loved.

Thus the Christian would also be someone who is freely and fully self expressed. They would have done away with false modesty in exchange for mirth and fun-loving humor and play, but at the same time they would not be trivial or flippant as a parody of merriment, so they would also be as serious as they are given to good humor, and so while they would be very light-hearted, they are not to be taken lightly because what they are dealing in is the very stuff of life itself, which by its very nature is all or nothing, there are no half-measures about it.

In short you would encounter someone who is growing in the stature of Christ, which is someone who is becoming a more full and complete human being, no matter what their outward condition might be, whether physically or financially or whatever.

Christ can also be hidden in the very person who is most in need of our love, that's the hidden secret that these so-called Christians are unaware of, that Christ may even be lurking, as yet undiscovered, in the very atheist they are condemning to hell, and what will they (the Christian) tell Jesus when he asks them how they handled that situation, or when they are in need of that other person's forgiveness because Jesus Christ isn't a weapon or shield by proxy.

We so love to be right in order to make someone else wrong. Those "Christians" are especially adept in the use of the Bible to make other people feel bad.

LOL!

The mark then of a Christian is that at some fundamental level they will be a pearl in formation at the gate of heaven, as a point of attraction not repulsion.

There may of course be much much fewer "Christians" in the world than is stated by the latest census.

Therefore, there will be much weeping and wailing before the hand of God wipes away the tears from their eyes, even moreso on the part of many "Christians" than on the part of the unbelievers who might have held a place in their heart for the love of God.