Was World War 2 a necessary and ultimately just war?

Hitler was an aggressive commander of Germany's military force. He invaded several nearby countries, which began the war. Would he have stopped if England had accepted his newly won territory? Would that have been the end of his territorial ambitions? And would many millions of people not have died once things escalated? By the way, I don't know the answer to this question.

But I also have to ask the question as to whether WW2 was what it appeared to be, a European conflict connected to the first world war, or whether forces not described in the history books were pulling the strings, as they seem to have done with recent conflict. Once again, I don't know the answer.

But maybe you do. Was WW2 the last just war, or was it part of a long term pattern of manipulation by forces trying to stay out of the spotlight?

I guess I forgot to mention the Jewish genocide that Hitler sanctioned. That has to be considered when evaluating how necessary WW2 was. But stopping the genocide wasn't part of the motivation of the allies. The genocide only became clearly understood after the war was over.

The answer is quite simple: No. He would not have stopped. He kept saying, 'I just need a little more. Let me invade this country, let me take over that country.' He was a liar.

Actually if you took the time to read his manifesto, Mein Kampf he already outlined what he planned on doing while he was in prison many years before he came into office in the 30's. He planned on outright dominion of the world, and the elimination of the Jews, long before WWII started.

The fact that concentration camps were fully operational and Jews, Jehovah's Witnesses, Homosexuals, and others were already being sent to them by the thousands, tens of thousands, before the war started, shows you that he already had extermination, and world dominion in his mind.

Very rarely are their ever 'genuine wars'.
Most times both sides forces want the same things (freedom and safety for their families), however power hungry leaders don't want to loose face and want to maintain their egos.

The way Japan was forced into war through the US establishing embargo's and blocking Oil was disgusting, so was how they Japanese treated and perceived other races, mainly the unspeakable things they did to the Chinese which they still deny.

The millions that have died due to Sunni vs Shiite Muslims is disturbing. Not to sound ignorant, for the most part they are the same not kill each other and other religions over their tiny differences.

reply to post by droid56


Queen Victoria

would never have allowed ww1 it too happen.
at that time she WAS the LAW of Europe.
besides they were all her Grand Kids.

When King George? died,, their were 9?? Kings across Europe,,

first
History:
France,,,became a Republic,,killed the "Royals"
"royals" has included the Ottomans.
then Russia,,killed the Royals,,which changed world Politics
the the King of Germany, was,,killed?
and Germany became,, a Republic,,
which opened the door for,,

Hitler.
who thought he was God.,,not some unworthy king,,

then decided too act like any man god in History.

kill people.


,,so yes it was also a Hollacaust for "kings", and Royals.

Lest we forgot, them as well.

reply to post by phantom150


"Japan was forced into war" thats a lie ,Japan was given every opportunity, too not go too war by America.
even Japans own Emporer said "If we are all one Humanity,,why are the Waves and Winds so restless,violent?"

too which the Military Replied,,,piss off ya Hippy!

tojo hated Hippies.

reply to post by BobAthome

Bob, stop typing too when it is to. Except when you say, "Can I go too?"

phantom150
Very rarely are their ever 'genuine wars'.
Most times both sides forces want the same things (freedom and safety for their families), however power hungry leaders don't want to loose face and want to maintain their egos.

The way Japan was forced into war through the US establishing embargo's and blocking Oil was disgusting, so was how they Japanese treated and perceived other races, mainly the unspeakable things they did to the Chinese which they still deny.

The millions that have died due to Sunni vs Shiite Muslims is disturbing. Not to sound ignorant, for the most part they are the same not kill each other and other religions over their tiny differences.

In order to say the US was wrong in their embargo on Japan, you would have to believe Japan was right in it's wars it was waging at the time. Remember, at this time the US was not the power hungry, world police it is today. Leave that bias right at the door. The US was fully justified using it's power that it did have, peacefully, to hinder the Japanese war effort, which was a goal that was more than noble for anybody with a heart. It was also, peacefully, supporting the war effort against Hitler by supplying the Allies before actually entering into the war.

If we want to talk justifications, Germany had far more justification in it's launching of war on Europe, than Japan did on it's war against Asia.

The only way one could argue Japan was forced into war, is if you get into a really convoluted tale of blame, and go all the way back when the US basically forced Japan to modernize. One could argue forcing Japan to modernize led to it's rise in power, which led to it's war against Asia, which led to the US's involvement. But again, quite convoluted, and if that type of blame game is acceptable than nothing every done in the history of man is ever wrong because you can always find a justification if you go back far enough.

reply to post by droid56


There is no conspiracy here. Why is it in the conspiracy section?

Personally I think there were parts of the German war effort that were justified. Territories that were taken from them in the aftermath of WWI, quite literally impossible debt to other European countries that would cripple Germany for centuries to come, etc. There was, quite literally, no possible way for the German people to be anything but impoverished nothings without going to war, so I feel the start of the war was justified. I feel Hitler's actions and desires were unjustified, and Germany's actions quickly became unjustified in totality.

Many European countries were under direct attack from Germany. Of course they were justified in defending themselves, how could anyone say they are not?

The US, while not under direct threat from Germany, was directly attacked by Japan, justifying it's role in the Pacific. As Japan and Germany were strongly allied, and the US an many European nations were allied, the US was justified in the European theater as well.

So overall I think Germany was justified in the early stages, as they were trying to restore the prosperity and territory of the German people. It very quickly, and totally shifted into a cloud of evil, at which point it became unjustified.

And, as the allies were quite literally fighting for their own defense, they are totally and wholly justified (including Dresden, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki)

reply to post by MadMax9


Then moderators can move it. But I'm still not entirely sure that it isn't part of a long term conspiracy.

reply to post by James1982


"Territories that were taken from them in the aftermath of WWI, quite literally impossible debt to other European countries that would cripple Germany"

well maybe they should not have used Sarin Gas on Canadian/Australian/British troops ,,?????,,for the first time in History?
or declared the shipping of Supplies,,in the Atlantic,was Against German Policy,,so STOP,or else.!

well a lot of people choose "OR ELSE ,,WHAT?",,and the German Sub. Wolf Pack was born.
another Great German Tactic.

Yeah, It was a war that needed to happen.

Not only for Hitler, Japan, Italy, Russia but for science and humanity.
Imagine the bomb had of been created 10yrs down the track by a rampant Russia?

WW2 was destiny, one of the leaders of the armistice in WW1 even said
'' This isn't a peace, its a 30yr armistice. '' he nailed it by a few months!

BobAthome
reply to post by James1982

 

"Territories that were taken from them in the aftermath of WWI, quite literally impossible debt to other European countries that would cripple Germany"

well maybe they should not have used Sarin Gas on Canadian/Australian/British troops ,,?????,,for the first time in History?
or declared the shipping of Supplies,,in the Atlantic,was Against German Policy,,so STOP,or else.!

well a lot of people choose "OR ELSE ,,WHAT?",,and the German Sub. Wolf Pack was born.
another Great German Tactic.

I think the events of WWI are fairly well established...

However the point of war should be to remove a threat to your nation, not punish the entire citizenry of a country and their descendents for generations to come. That's North Korea stuff there, man, generational punishments and all that.

I hope the rest of the world thinks differently than you if/when the US ever falls, and doesn't punish American citizens for the following 300 years for the actions of the government in the past.

After re-reading this I think you misread my post. I was referring to initial WWII actions being justified due to actions against Germany after WWI (one)

The Wolfpack tactic wasn't used until WWII (two) and Sarin was never used either War.

reply to post by James1982


"However the point of war should be to remove a threat to your nation, not punish the entire citizenry of a country and their descendents for generations to come. "

well actually after ww2 that was kinda RUSSIA'S INTENTION!,,not America's,,or maybe the Berlin Airlift,,,and the Berlin Wall,,was AMERICA'S fault as well?

BobAthome
reply to post by James1982

 

"Territories that were taken from them in the aftermath of WWI, quite literally impossible debt to other European countries that would cripple Germany"

well maybe they should not have used Sarin Gas on Canadian/Australian/British troops ,,?????,,for the first time in History?
or declared the shipping of Supplies,,in the Atlantic,was Against German Policy,,so STOP,or else.!

well a lot of people choose "OR ELSE ,,WHAT?",,and the German Sub. Wolf Pack was born.
another Great German Tactic.

I don't think that Sarin was ever used on Allied troops. Hitler was too afraid of Allied retaliation.

Agit8dChop
Yeah, It was a war that needed to happen.

Not only for Hitler, Japan, Italy, Russia but for science and humanity.
Imagine the bomb had of been created 10yrs down the track by a rampant Russia?

WW2 was destiny, one of the leaders of the armistice in WW1 even said
'' This isn't a peace, its a 30yr armistice. '' he nailed it by a few months!

Just curious, what do you mean, "Not only for.... Russia" The US wasn't at war with Russia during the 40s..?

You say a war that needed to happen, party because of future Soviet-US relations and how the soviets might have had the upper hand if not for WWII? Have you ever thought without WWII the stage would never have been set for the meteoric rise of the US and the Soviet Union and tensions that came along with it?

That without WWII, the world would have had a far more evenly distributed power structure which would have killed the cold war and the danger of the Soviets before it ever got off the ground? Considering the destruction in Europe was a good spring board for communism to take over in the East securing the Soviet's power, and the spoils of WWII bloated both the US and the Soviets with a new found superpower status? The cold war was simply fallout from WWII, just as WWII was fallout from WWI, and today's landscape is fallout from the cold war, as all our running around the world causing mayhem in an attempt to thwart the soviets for a few decades lit of the fuse of many of today's explosive situations. Curious what all of today's "anti-terrorism" BS will cause a few decades down the line, I have my suspicions but they are fairly dark and I'd prefer they not be accurate.

My point is, you think because America had a slight edge during the cold war due to the events of WWII, we are able to live as freely and well as we are. But without WWII it's very possible, if not likely, that those very threats you are glad we overcame would have never existed in the first place.

Say Germany took over a small part of Europe, and eventually fell from within, went through major reform, and emerged as a modern and free society. The rest of Europe is prosperous and successful without the major damage from the war, and avoids totalitarian takeover. America, the whole of America is prosperous, free, and successful. South America being better off because the cold war government meddling never took place. Russia still becomes powerful, but without the communist takeover of parts of Asia and Eastern Europe. China still becomes powerful, but with a less soviet inspired form of true communism.

The whole world is more balanced and you don't get the effect of the cold war, where two superpower basically tear up the rest of the world playing their proxy war games.

Is this fantasy? Maybe. But you never know. I know the cold war era had a HUGE negative impact on the entire planet today, and it's effects are still being felt and will be for some time. It's like a cancer on our history that has spread throughout the whole world and sickened and destroyed governments as it went, leaving burnt out hell holes in its wake. Far more insidious and damaging than a straight up ground war. This never would have taken place if it weren't for the events of WWII and America and the Soviet's subsequent rise to global dominance. Whether something better or worse would have taken place in it's place is anyone's guess, but I think it's fairly reasonable to believe the world would be far better off today if WWII never took place, depending on how exactly the "never taking place" part happened.

BobAthome
reply to post by James1982

 

"However the point of war should be to remove a threat to your nation, not punish the entire citizenry of a country and their descendents for generations to come. "

well actually after ww2 that was kinda RUSSIA'S INTENTION!,,not America's,,or maybe the Berlin Airlift,,,and the Berlin Wall,,was AMERICA'S fault as well?

I was referring to the events after WW one, such as impossible debt and seized land, which caused the events of WWII, which I maintain where initially somewhat justified, as Germany's only option if it was ever going to remove itself from basic slavery was to fight for it's prosperity.

The Berlin wall was a construction of the Soviets, not America, and was after WWII not WWI, but I'm not sure what that has to do with what I was saying.

AngryCymraeg

BobAthome
reply to post by James1982

 

"Territories that were taken from them in the aftermath of WWI, quite literally impossible debt to other European countries that would cripple Germany"

well maybe they should not have used Sarin Gas on Canadian/Australian/British troops ,,?????,,for the first time in History?
or declared the shipping of Supplies,,in the Atlantic,was Against German Policy,,so STOP,or else.!

well a lot of people choose "OR ELSE ,,WHAT?",,and the German Sub. Wolf Pack was born.
another Great German Tactic.

I don't think that Sarin was ever used on Allied troops. Hitler was too afraid of Allied retaliation.

Yeah, really the only chemical weapons used in WWII were by the Japanese, and even that was rather small scale.

I believe he was talking about WWI (which I was in the post he replied to) but Sarin wasn't even invented until AFTER WWI (maybe into WWII actually) so he's wrong either way.

reply to post by droid56


In order to find whether ww2 was needed, would require this thread to be shut down under the guise of hate speech.
Remember, this is ATS's board and truth is not always welcome here.
In order to find truth, you will have to post / look elsewhere.