The Philosophy of Pattern: Learning the Language of the Universe

I have quite a few different sections of my personally-constructed ideology that i'm trying to get a general sampling of perspective on and this seems to be the next logical step from my previous thread:

are Astronomy, Physics, Biology, Chemistry, Philosophy, Film, Art, and Music all examples of humanity's collective attempt to learn "the language of the universe"..?

sound crazy?

maybe, maybe not..?

well, it turns out that "crazy" or "not-crazy" might be besides the point, just as the English language in America is not any more "correct" than the English language in England; certain things said by either can be interpreted as "crazy" by the other.

What seems to be the very basic goal of each of these paradigms..?
my recent definition: to understand and hence better manipulate/collaborate with the surroundings/experience of our internal and external worlds!

I have come to think of concepts such as the 2nd law of thermodynamics as being more similar to a law of language (syntax) which is flexible and only helps guide communication, instead of a law like in our judicial system (which is cryptic and implies there is a punishment for attempting to circumnavigate or even exploit the law)

Music is the realm that I am most familiar with, however, and it is through music that things started to appear this way to me..
everyone knows what music 'is' and (almost) everyone has a fascination with it that most of us take for granted, but could easily be considered "irrational" or at least not really based on anything we can explain with words (and when we do, we tend to make fools out ourselves and speak further and further from describing the original object of speculation..)

but music itself is not entirely irrational or intangible while somehow also never being entirely rational or unanimously agreed upon as "good" or "bad" or "rock" or "punk" or "metal" blah blah blah...
these words do *sometimes* indeed communicate *something*, but the group of artists and sounds described by these words is ever-changing and their versatility proves to be limited in doing justice to the content being described.

there are general "suggestions" in music which has become known as "music theory" after the lifetime of J.S. Bach (fairly recent in terms of the tradition of music) but after studying it for years, I don't think that those rules or "laws" are any more stable or universal than the laws in law-books of any given county when compared to another. Sure, there are some laws that have been around for centuries, but sometimes (seems often..) those are the laws that need changing the most urgently..

really what I am trying to say is that the nature of music is to be fleeting, evolving, changing, and ultimately created instead of studied.. I am coming to believe that the laws of the universe are of the same quality..

Not until the nature of electricity was understood, humanity had no concept of indoor lighting or cities as they exist now..
until the acceptance of the "tri-tone" (flat-5th) in the west, composers were condemned for its use and western music itself was limited by the limitation of that acceptance..

Meanwhile, the East-Indian culture had been utilizing that interval in music for possibly thousands of years and evolved their system of music far beyond what even modern music has yet to explore..

but there seems to always be a plateau that follows the incline of progress.. stagnancy is also something that is seen in every one of these paradigms I mentioned above and, while stagnancy does have a natural role in being the opposite dynamic of progress and inevitable, recent society seems to have more than its fair share of it..

The status and use of these tools in music is no different than the pursuit of science to manipulate matter, communicate more effectively, and explore further into "the unknown"; the reluctance of the masses to see the world as anything other than what they "want" it to be, being what keeps progress as a fickle and fleeting thing..

again, I apologize if lack-of-organization makes this a rough read, but I guess I could sum up my point (or my question) like this:

Do all of the seemingly-independent and various paradigms of human study have the common goal of learning to speak to the Universe in its own language/dialect? Could Physics be the Syntax of "God's" language, Biology be the Grammar, Psychology the Creative Writing.. etc?

just some thoughts ^-^

reply to post by HyphenSt1


are Astronomy, Physics, Biology, Chemistry, Philosophy, Film, Art, and Music all examples of humanity's collective attempt to learn "the language of the universe"?
Or create? I had to toss that in before I read any farther. Thanks.

reply to post by HyphenSt1

not really based on anything we can explain with words (and when we do, we tend to make fools out ourselves and speak further and further from describing the original object of speculation..)

Sounds like an ancient way of describing "He can not be described" and how it has morphed into the various world religions of today.

reply to post by HyphenSt1

really what I am trying to say is that the nature of music is to be fleeting, evolving, changing, and ultimately created instead of studied.. I am coming to believe that the laws of the universe are of the same quality..

I would have been back sooner but this spun me out a bit.

reply to post by TerryMcGuire


absolutely. and I think that the original intent behind the invention of language was to collaborate and hence create through communication with each other. Indeed I am attempting to point to the indescribable but instead of dwelling on it, or being overwhelmed by it, I suggest that humanity begins to remember why we have language in the first place: to create and customize our world to be what we think it ought to be.

I can't remember where I read it, but the idea that "to assume the Will of nature as your own is to assume the role of God at the center of your Universe.." makes me think that all thought and action can be considered and felt as creative and it is when we stop relying on language to justify reality, that we cease to preoccupy ourselves and begin to see the potential and impermanence of all things.

I think you have a good insight. As an artist and musician perhaps it's easier to understand your implication here.
All the things you mention are studies in organizing fields - of sounds, sight, planets, physical laws etc.
There was a entire movement based in Germany called Gestalt that was mostly applied to psychiatry but I believe might come close to what you are describing.

Without getting into the "spouting off" of my own experience. The overall composition of the musical language is the closest us humans have to a "universal" language. If ye haven't already experienced it, wait till you meet a north american "red neck", (quotations, for I don't really wanna disassociate myself from home.) But when you you hear a "red neck" picker, use their skills on a certain scale or melody; and you yerself recognize the similie to a range well known within: Well actually, it is universal, so you may hear a reckoning of a different number of "Eastern styles." Without getting into typecasting or stereotypes, (I hope i haven't.) I believe you recognize the universality of musical scales. "Screw the english language!) MODS, is that too strong of language? Sorry if it was. Too sum up before I'm too blotto to do so: The "language" of pure instrumental music is more powerful, and profound than... er lets say english.?

Wow, that was super rambling!! But I think i got the major points across. I also feel that I will distract whichever trolls from your post. Much like government parasites, the trolls are easily fended off, once you've earned yerself a ltttle bit of slack.

reply to post by ThickAsABrick


hahaha thank you for that. if you didn't notice above, I TOO speak the ramble

but I perfectly know what you mean, and that has been my access-point into accepting EVERY note inside the music of all artists, of all "genres" (and hence NO genres..) for what they are, and that IS a message..
but so few know how to "translate" any of the messages confidently because (especially the deep stuff) points to the ultimate natures of reality (very scary and threatening to "the game") and damn often seems to lead to things like Joy, Happiness, and a feeling of accomplishment IN THE DOING rather than the "accomplishing" (a.k.a. the death)

as alan watts says: "the point of music is to experience it.. not to arrive at the last note.."

just as language has positive, neutral, and negative realms of meaning.. so too does music, physics, biology, etc etc..

reply to post by HyphenSt1


Patterns. I recall years ago, one afternoon I was taking a shower. I had been listening to a study about patterns and how we are surrounded by them, most often unknowingly. As I took my shower thinking about patterns it suddenly dawned on me that I was rotating clockwise. And as I thought about it I found that I had no memory of ever turning counter-clockwise while in the shower.

So I began to rotate counter-clockwise. I felt very strange, which informed me that there was little body memory for this direction of movement. While dressing after the shower, I was sitting on the bed putting on my shoes when I had the very same lack of body familiarity as when I was rotating counter-clockwise. I stopped to pay more conscious attention to my performance of this almost unconscious process and realized that the lack of body familiarity was do to the fact that I was putting my shoes on left then right rather than my normal right to left.

There can be with our living here, a recognition of patterns and our conscious and unconscious fusion with them. When this recognition comes about there is opportunity to establish patterns that had not existed before. Case?

Dave Brubeck.

I agree because the dynamics of metaphysics and quantum mechanics in relation to the physical world means that people cannot say anything of contribution compared to the simple tone that they say it in. And even more actions, rather in that case the world 'action' is more of an 'act' when communicating a language, so the story of words put together will reveal something different than what the words say.

reply to post by HyphenSt1


The tune of life is being played. It does not have to be learned or found as it is eternally this - ever changing but always this.

The Latin word derives from the poetic contraction Unvorsum — first used by Lucretius in Book IV (line 262) of his De rerum natura (On the Nature of Things) — which connects un, uni (the combining form of unus, or "one") with vorsum, versum (a noun made from the perfect passive participle of vertere, meaning "something rotated, rolled, changed").

en.wikipedia.org...
The universe is one unfolding.

reply to post by TerryMcGuire


Brubeck and many jazz musicians are great examples of many people tapping into the rhythm of the universe through creative effort..

However! notice how following even the most radical departures from what was accepted as "normal", there is always a wake of imitators which dilute the pool of sincere and potent music. There is no formulae for "originality" besides the willingness to take risks and adopt the methods/perspective of nature itself.

that peculiar spinning sensation you spoke of seems like it could also be related to the idea of "spin" in quantum mechanics. I'm not versed in the details but the Spin of an energetic-body determines how it interacts with its environment. It could almost be compared to "charge" in classical physics but the "spin" is much more subtle and relies on the contrast of environment to show its nature. Also, in looking at the nature of quarks, it becomes more and more obvious that the universe is far from being a dualistic thing.
I almost feel like one could start an entire field of comparative studies in comparing modern quantum and string-theories to polytheist and animist mythologies..!? eh eh?

reply to post by greyer


if I read you right, you are outlining how it seems that "you can't teach anyone anything they don't already know" and I happen to agree, though it is still a struggle to embrace this..

I do stand by the notion that words and symbols are basically attempting to point to archetypes and seem universal, yes? I can type the word "tree" and you and I both have a picture that appears in our head, though definitely NOT the same tree, or perhaps even the same species. No matter the degree of diversity in any one "group" (plants, animals, minerals, phenomena) our minds are able to reduce them to a basic "essence" that is useful for contemplation and problem-solving, but limiting when it "projects" interpretations onto things which are not as they appear.

I have come to feel that until one finds a "blank" spot in themselves that is outside of interpretation, language, and contemplation, I think it is very difficult to ACTUALLY "see" the world, as-it-is. I know this seems odd to say, or perhaps exaggerated, but I honestly don't think so. I don't believe "absolute extremes" are attainable so of course no one is entirely "asleep" but they sure as hell aren't too "awake" either.
Though the common tendency is too compare these people to sleep-walkers, I think it is a more appropriate comparison to say they are more similar to a person who just woke up, but is perpetually in that groggy state where everything is blurry and overwhelming that isn't warm, fuzzy, and non-threatening haha.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


most definitely. I believe it was Buckminster Fuller who said that his "deity of worship" was Universe. when asked why not THE Universe, he said "the word 'The' is redundant because it too was an original name of God" (which I believe he is referencing the name El of Judaism, which is also "the" in Spanish, but don't quote me on that connection)

I will probably eventually start a thread on this specifically, but I think this is related to how "learning" is actually more a matter of FORGETTING how to over-think things so actions can come naturally. just as you don't have to think to grow your hair or digest your food, so too does your consciousness know what is right, wrong, and irrelevant without needing to be told or justify it intellectually.

HyphenSt1
if I read you right, you are outlining how it seems that "you can't teach anyone anything they don't already know" and I happen to agree, though it is still a struggle to embrace this..

I do stand by the notion that words and symbols are basically attempting to point to archetypes and seem universal, yes? I can type the word "tree" and you and I both have a picture that appears in our head, though definitely NOT the same tree, or perhaps even the same species. No matter the degree of diversity in any one "group" (plants, animals, minerals, phenomena) our minds are able to reduce them to a basic "essence" that is useful for contemplation and problem-solving, but limiting when it "projects" interpretations onto things which are not as they appear.

I have come to feel that until one finds a "blank" spot in themselves that is outside of interpretation, language, and contemplation, I think it is very difficult to ACTUALLY "see" the world, as-it-is. I know this seems odd to say, or perhaps exaggerated, but I honestly don't think so. I don't believe "absolute extremes" are attainable so of course no one is entirely "asleep" but they sure as hell aren't too "awake" either.
Though the common tendency is too compare these people to sleep-walkers, I think it is a more appropriate comparison to say they are more similar to a person who just woke up, but is perpetually in that groggy state where everything is blurry and overwhelming that isn't warm, fuzzy, and non-threatening haha.

I can see how you gathered that but know, I strongly disagree with what most people say, unless it's a saying from 30 years ago, it seems that ever sense the internet came in people slowly started moving in the opposite direction from evolving in most place in the world, now we are at a point that a lot of people are completely caught in the delusion of ego without even realizing it, I mean everything they say and thing will be wrong, incorrect, and they won't even know it, they will have a hard time grasping what is truly right and wrong. The amount that any animal can learn is astounding.

Since earth is so unique it supports having what appears to be an infinite amount of personalities, more personalities than even bodies because it is often to see people who look alike. But it is the personality which makes one see a purple tree, or a different kind of tree, glass half empty or half full type of thing. The question of a universal language would have to have an answer like Uri Geller, it would have to be possible to do the things that some claim he did, and be psychic, ESP, etc. To develop a picture from the though of another person's mind, or the supposed aliens who can come down at the thought of someone. I believe because even though earth is physical, that is the trick, the physical aspect of reality has proven to be magical to me, which means it proved to be an illusion like a hallucination.

I agree that it is very difficult to see the world, when I think I have an aspect of part of the world down, I see that it is still a generalization because of the diversity and uniqueness of souls, but when we talk about world we can categorize the group of people who look at themselves and try to please their ego based on a reflection of each other. This would be why trends appear, why I love the 70's trends but I do not like them today. In that sense of the world you can generalize and talk about the world as if it is one group of consciousness, and I think that is true because you have people moving away to rural places one earth attempting to get away from that. The absolute most thing that I have learned today is to not wonder anywhere in the world (in my mind). Stay very close to myself, and don't attempt to put myself out there as just my experience. I can talk to people, but I have learned that the ego is despicable, the ego is stubborn and to be stubborn is a direct effect of not having a perception of spiritual faith. Unfortunately it is like all the paths are trap lines, the world is a net that wants to catch you and bring you down to their level, abusing peace by taking advantage of neurology and chemical reactions that make us want to act which is something we can control, but to a point you cannot control the neurological chemical reaction.

reply to post by HyphenSt1


You forgot about math, the ultimate universal language. Without it nothing else would exist, including music.

reply to post by kushness


actually I consider math as being a part of all of these things in SOME aspect, and hence an ATTEMPT at a universal language, but I don't believe it is complete.

Math can be applied to music, but you do not need math to hear or play.

It's applied to physics, but isn't required for gravity to exist.

Math is a means of demonstrating raw logic based in quantity and measurement, but both of these things require quite a few assumptions and neglect the ever-changing and malleable nature of things. This is why I ask in the OP whether all of these paradigms could be considered to be a collective effort to learn a COMPLETE language of the universe and speak it fluently, rather than being satisfied with just a "conversational" ability to communicate.

are we moving on from being limited to "baby-talk" and learning to speak "as an adult" with God..?

kushness
reply to post by HyphenSt1

 

Without it nothing else would exist, including music.

this is what is called "confusing the map, with the territory" and goes along with the idea that you have to "try" to grow your hair..

Music (and "existence") is where you hear/see it, just as beauty/ugliness is in the eye of the beholder..

reply to post by HyphenSt1


I know about film. So let me explain from what I know about.

Film is a manipulation of light, nothing more. What you see on the screen is nothing more than light and not even what you really see. Film is 70 fps of still pictures, that you believe is movement because of persistence of vision. That manipulation of light and persistence of vision has suspended your disbelief.

It works because your brain has convinced you that you are seeing action, when in reality, you are seeing stillness. If you have ever edited a film, you know that any wrong action in a particular frame, can destroy suspension of disbelief. That's why people spot bloopers all the time.

But if the editor knows action, they pay attention to every location of a hand, an arm, the eyes, whatever the viewer might focus on. All this is to manipulate light that is shown on a screen.

If you walk up to a screen and place your hand on it, the light will be on your hand, still replaying action.

In the first film released by the Black Maria Studio was Edwin S. Porter's The Great Train Robbery, women screamed and fainted at the end when he shot his gun. There was no sound, just the image.

When Roman Polanski changed camera angles that was unique in Rosemary's Baby, he filmed Mia Farrow blocked by the door frame, people actually tried to lean around to look past the door frame, their brains had convinced them they were really in a room looking at Mia Farrow. That's what film does.

And film not only show this, but the music in film is so supportive of suspension of disbelief. One knows the type of film simply because of the music. I could film the exterior of a house, and simply by playing music, you know what the tone is of the film. If I show the exterior and play happy and upbeat music, you associate that with comedy, but if the same image had Rom Zombie playing over it, then it will be a disturbing horror film.

So film and music go hand-in-hand, because our brains are conditioned to certain actions by what we see or hear.

HyphenSt1

kushness
reply to post by HyphenSt1

 

Without it nothing else would exist, including music.

this is what is called "confusing the map, with the territory" and goes along with the idea that you have to "try" to grow your hair..

Music (and "existence") is where you hear/see it, just as beauty/ugliness is in the eye of the beholder..

It doesn't matter whether we like or dislike certain music, it is what we associate the music with. Each genre carries a different worldview.

And the association with images is how we determine whether or not our world is safe or unsafe.

Watch this and you will know exactly why it works. Because the music associated with it causes you to believe


I wanted to point out Rocky also. But this is why movies work, and why people make music videos, that's why the greatest modern composers make film soundtracks, they know how the human brain works and that this is one the things you must learn in making films. Music sets the tone and no one has to say dialogue, you know what is happening just by the music.

Music and film are more than just a philosophy, it is the driving force in psychology and no one can tell me differently. Every psychological expression is in just five minutes of an effective film trailer with music that grabs you so much, that it makes you want to see the whole thing. Hollywood learned this with The Jazz Singer, you might not like Jazz, but by golly, a new thing was born that has tugged the psychological strings and why we have a 100 year-old industry. Without music, the industry would not be what it is today.