Why God Exist!!!?

reply to post by OOOOOO


Thanks 00000 for the post.

you said:

Not even the Nothing could, not exist, without the Something, You are dealing with True Infinity,The Creator, Alpha & Omega. That which has always been and will always be. The One Creator stood in the Nothing and said " I'am ".

Thus my premise - "Something or Someone" Eternal MUST by necessity Exist for anything, even "nothing" to exist.

That is, without action there's no reaction - a CAUSE and EFFECT.

The "I am" IS the First Cause who put everything (including nothing) into motion.

Once in motion, life as we know began to exist.

Thus "Out of Someone Infinite/Eternal, comes something".

reply to post by edmc^2


The universe is not infinite, The Universe will end with the end of Space /Time.
Creator, Creation is Infinite.

There are more Dimension's than the four, I am not sure as to String Theory. The Astral is from what I understand the 5th dimension.

It's the Yin & Yang thing in a way, one guy explained it as 0 1, and Nothing equals 0 , I would equate to Nothing equals -1.

-1 0 1, so you could never have -1 alone or have 1 alone, but you could have 0, a point of balance, But as the Wise Men said all is a illusion, the Entire Universe is in perfect balance even now, how could it not be.

reply to post by edmc^2


In a relative way to say it though, it's not that anything ever really started.

You could say the Universe started, but you speak of something finite.

The "I'am" has always been, just as the Nothing has always not been.

We are part of this Creation, we or most are, held in the veil of ignorance. Even Satan, will lead you to the Truth.

There is a plan at work here. This is something that must be.

Cogito, Ergo Sum

edmc^2
This concept and reality is the same with God - He Always existed! That's all there is to it. Otherwise the other and ONLY alternative is to accept that nothing created everything.

That's pretty much what you are saying, either way. So we're not allowed to say "nothing created the universe", or it simply "always existed". But we can say nothing created god, who always existed (and who created everything else). No bias or or excess baggade there (where's the facepalm?). lol.

It might be good to define "god" also. Out of the thousands of versions available, we do at least know that the "idiot god " of the bible is mythical and he has definitely been discredited. Unlike musings about how our universe might have got here, the bible makes testable claims that are very applicable to this universe and that we know are laughably and ridiculously wrong. He either doesn't exist, or has been so horribly misrepresented that he might as well not exist. So it seems we will have to start from scratch there, if we overlook the other obvious fact that there is no evidence of such a thing to begin with.

So which one are you proposing? The Rainbow Serpent, Aganju, John Frum, Ahau Chamahez, Jupiter...? Can you also outline the falsifiable claims, experiments etc we can use to verify?

edit on 16-11-2013 by Cogito, Ergo Sum because: for the heck of it

Unfortunately, there's NOTHING to backup the view that "nothing created the universe" other than ones point of view.

On the other we already know that that the universe came forth from the materialization of matter from Energy.

So at this point in time, there's no other alternative but to accept the obvious - that something was already in existent before the birth of the universe. That something is spacetime. Yet spacetime alone is an incomplete explanation because of laws that are present in the universe. Such laws as the CAUSE and EFFECT law.

We know that a CAUSE was there from the very beginning because we can see and test the effects.

And the effects points to a very logical conclusion that laws were involve in bringing them about.

And any reasonable person know that for a law to exist there MUST be a lawmaker.

As for the God in the scriptures, yes, he's "been so horribly misrepresented that he might as well not exist".

reply to post by edmc^2


The problem seems to be, is that if can exist as a realized being, then you would see that this is something that in Zen terms simply Is. It can not, not be.

The thing that really needs to be done now is to perfect, this Earth and do as The Christ said, Peace on Earth for 1000 years.

Big Bang, A infinite number of bangs, the multiverse, String Theory Membranes it's all the same.

Krazysh0t
reply to post by tsingtao

 

Your attempt to be cute and funny not withstanding, but yes I would need to witness God or some sort of miracle that is then taken credit by God directly. Not indirectly by some priest or religious official, but DIRECTLY from God. You obviously require no proof of his existence and while that may be fine for you, it doesn't hold up for me and others like myself. Again God should be aware of my wants in this regard, He should also be aware of what exactly I would need to see or experience to believe in Him as well as any other person like myself (keep in mind, what I would consider absolute proof would be vastly different then what someone else would consider absolute proof). So tell me why doesn't He just satisfy this simple request? It would clear up a BOATLOAD of confusion on this planet, but instead God in His infinite love decides to keep us in the dark and let us continue to bicker back and forth about if He exists and if He does what the correct way to worship him is.

first of all, God is not at your/our beck and call, what god ever was?

reminds me of a stones tune, "can't always get what you want....but if you try sometime, you get what you need..."

proof comes in the Holy Spirit and the works/wonders, of God Himself, look around, and through Jesus's time on earth.

when you are touched, you will know it.
how would you feel if you woke up one day, a full blown fundie? lol!
you wouldn't,
man's perversion of The Word, did that.

we have been given unlimited power to find our place and mysteries of this vast universe.
we are infants. the first thing a baby does is recognize it's parents.

then explore the world around itself.
we learn, more and more, all the time.
Dr. Spock and B.F. Skinner, not withstanding, there are really no handbooks, for raising children, that work for all,
across the board.

bastion

Itisnowagain

edmc^2
reply to post by Cogito, Ergo Sum

 

[qoute]Lol. You realize you just ruled out god? [/qoute]

Exactly!

0=1 rules out God. It also rules "out of something comes something" for how could an Always Existing God be present if there was NOTHING (0) to begin with?

God is nothingness - which is what is always present.
The present is always present but there maybe ideas arising presently that talk of 'someone' who lives in time - a separate person.
There is nothing apart from the present - which is always happening as this (whatever is actually happening).

But the fact is, I didn't rule out God from the equation. No for the simple reason that I always view that "something or someone eternal" was always present when energy materialized into matter.

The present is eternal - there is no 'something/someone'.
The present just continually appears different.

that nothing created something.

No 'thing' was ever created.
This is both nothing and everything - emptiness IS form.

edit on 16-11-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

The problem with this is your basing your explanations on the following boundary conditions
There is a god and it's nothingness - no proof either way
The present if always the present - not proof, with string theory/upper dimensional Phsysics strongly indicating your claim is false.

Then answer this question - have you ever seen any other time but the present?

There is nothing apart from the present - you can't prove a negative and 12th dimensional hypertime models show us there is no true singular present.

Have you experienced a start to now and an end to now? How long is now? Have you ever escaped the present or seen anything apart from what is appearing in the (as the ) present?

Unless you can prove your founding assumptions you're always going to come out with the wrong result, even if the right methods were used.

Can you show me anyone who has invented a machine that removes someone from the present (a time machine)?

reply to post by Itisnowagain


If I went in a time machine to 1970, it would be experienced as now.


Now matter where a time machine takes you, you would be experiencing it is now

I know that wasn't your point but it's just interesting for me to think about.

reply to post by edmc^2


This is how I see it. God is just a concept in a human-based belief system. Whether or not a god exists independent of human belief systems, well, I have no way of knowing. But I live my life as though any deity most likely does not exist.

My stance as an atheist is working pretty well, to say the least.

arpgme
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

If I went in a time machine to 1970, it would be experienced as now.


Now matter where a time machine takes you, you would be experiencing it is now

I know that wasn't your point but it's just interesting for me to think about.

That is the point.
Nothing can appear outside presence. Presence IS always.
Never not here.

Eternally here but the mind speaks of 'there' and 'then'.
God is eternally here and he projects out of presence. Is it not Satan who is cast out of presence?

Nacirema
reply to post by edmc^2

 

This is how I see it. God is just a concept in a human-based belief system. Whether or not a god exists independent of human belief systems, well, I have no way of knowing. But I live my life as though any deity most likely does not exist.

My stance as an atheist is working pretty well, to say the least.

wouldn't your atheist concept be viewed like that as well? you really believe what you are saying?

how do you know? you say it "works for you"

belief "works" for christians.

Does this moment have to be believed? Or is it just arising unconditionally?
The mind does not see this moment as it is working something else out but always as this moment.

God cannot be found because it is all that is happening.
Stories told of other times and places are projections. Who appears in the projections? Who is it that is 'cast out' of presence?

edmc^2

AfterInfinity
reply to post by edmc^2

 

So what you're saying is, as long as we're inventing irrational explanations, you might as well adhere to something that benefits you personally according to how you would like to be benefitted by such a system. Or in other words, if you're going to have an imaginary friend, it might as well be a genie who lives only to make you the happiest person on Earth.

Why am I not surprised?

No, I did not invent an "imaginary friend". It is what it is. Nothing comes nothing not "out of nothing, comes something".

Any rational mind can understand and see the logic in that! I don't know why you can't.

In fact it's an "imaginary" concept that "out of nothing, comes something".

Of course if you can prove that "out of nothing, comes something", then I'm with you.

In Our finite universe it is without doubt irrational to to think that nothingness could ever create anything. It dosent make sense. But you can not rantionaly compare Our finite universe With nothingness. You cant compare the two. They are two very different Dimensions.

If you support the idea that there is a inifnite. Than you have to Accept that there is only room for one such Dimension. Where there is only room for one infinite Dimension: You can ask Your self, where did all the other finites come from. All other Dimensions do exist within the infinite Space/Dimension. Again, where did they come from?

There is only one Clue.

Than you have to face what you deny. And start to solve the real issue.

reply to post by spy66

He is right though - nothing comes from nothing.

There is only ever nothing but words seem to make something out of this nothing.

Wait now..........................for the next thought to arise.....................where did it come from................where did it appear .......................and where did it go?

Thoughts are words. Say a word, hear a word...............now it is gone.


This moment is all there is - is it a thing? Or is it an appearance of moving light that is changing continually.

pheonix358
You have fallen into the religious zealot trap.

You want to prove that YOUR god exists.

I prefer thinking of the Mother of the Universe. It gets rid of all of those pesky illogical scriptures put in there by men to control people.

I am happy thinking of The Mother of the Universe or just Mummy for short.

ETA You also have a logical fallacy. Some one needed to create the universe = therefore god must exist

So who created God, well, obviously the Mother Of the Universe did that!

P

edit on 11/11/2013 by pheonix358 because: (no reason given)

The Universe is Eve, the infinite space and time Bride. Out of the "rib" of Adam (Omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent). All metaphorical junk, yes. Religious, to those that prefer that jargon.

arpgme
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

If I went in a time machine to 1970, it would be experienced as now.


Now matter where a time machine takes you, you would be experiencing it is now

I know that wasn't your point but it's just interesting for me to think about.

You so well demonstrate the reality which is our quantum multiverse. Time is the kinetic dimension of streams and threads. All that you were in your past is still there, just as real, just as content complete. The time currents do not permit you back as they have a stronger an impact upon your body that is housing your brain, which is the transceiver into your consciousness envelope.

tkwasny

arpgme
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

If I went in a time machine to 1970, it would be experienced as now.


Now matter where a time machine takes you, you would be experiencing it is now

I know that wasn't your point but it's just interesting for me to think about.

You so well demonstrate the reality which is our quantum multiverse. Time is the kinetic dimension of streams and threads. All that you were in your past is still there, just as real, just as content complete. The time currents do not permit you back as they have a stronger an impact upon your body that is housing your brain, which is the transceiver into your consciousness envelope.

Has anyone ever seen anything that is not present?
So why assume there is a solid past or future?

The perceiver and the perceived arise as one - presently.

The present is the only 'thing' that can be known.

Thoughts arise that speak of 'other times' but when does speaking or hearing happen? Always presently.

There is only the present and the present always appears different.
It is the presence of the lord.

What is cast out of presence? A projection of a person seems to live in time.

I do believe it is written that 'Satan is cast out of presence'.

Itisnowagain
reply to post by spy66

 

He is right though - nothing comes from nothing.

There is only ever nothing but words seem to make something out of this nothing.

Wait now..........................for the next thought to arise.....................where did it come from................where did it appear .......................and where did it go?

Thoughts are words. Say a word, hear a word...............now it is gone.


This moment is all there is - is it a thing? Or is it an appearance of moving light that is changing continually.

I see what you mean. But there is a difference in time here. A thought or a Word that we have, is such a short time, Comapred to Our finite universe which we exist in; time is much much longer for It, compared to a though or a Word.

Our finite universe comes from a different Source than Our thoughts and Our Words.

Nacirema
reply to post by edmc^2

 

This is how I see it. God is just a concept in a human-based belief system. Whether or not a god exists independent of human belief systems, well, I have no way of knowing. But I live my life as though any deity most likely does not exist.

My stance as an atheist is working pretty well, to say the least.

So how does an Atheist like you came to accept that nothing created everything without any single evidence that such concept is both logical and valid?

I mean how could you accept such concept if not based on facts?