Russia Preparing for Nuclear Attacks on U.S, Britain

I never knew this, and this is from 2003. Do the Math:

Russia preparing nuclear attacks on US and UK
Russia and China doing a joint military exercise
Russia condemning the US diplomatically
Russia supporting Syria and Iran

And yet there are still some people who want US to Invade Iran? Don't say I didn't warn you.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
I never knew this, and this is from 2003. Do the Math:

Russia preparing nuclear attacks on US and UK
Russia and China doing a joint military exercise
Russia condemning the US diplomatically
Russia supporting Syria and Iran

And yet there are still some people who want US to Invade Iran? Don't say I didn't warn you.

So, Russia and China are willing to bring this upon their homeland........

Dec. 5, 2003

For all the talk about rogue states acquiring nuclear weapons to threaten the United States, and all the heated debate about the United States developing mini-nukes and bunker busters to keep the rogues at bay, America’s nuclear weapons establishment does not pay much attention to the “axis of evil.” The real obsession of the U.S. nuclear enterprise at all levels – from Strategic Command in Omaha to the bomb custodians and designers in New Mexico – is keeping U.S. nuclear forces prepared to fight a large-scale nuclear war at a moment’s notice with …. Russia.

The dirty little secret of America’s current nuclear policy is that 99 percent of the nuclear weapons budget, planning, targeting, and operational activities still revolves around this one anachronistic scenario. The rationale is a throw-back to the Cold War, but however absurd, it still is the axis of current nuclear operations.

Scratch Russia from the list of enemies, as it should be, and all justification for maintaining a large U.S. nuclear arsenal evaporates.

There would be no planning to build a new factory – possibly in New Mexico – to produce plutonium triggers by the hundreds annually to support a U.S. arsenal of thousands of nuclear bombs. The drumbeat to resume nuclear testing to ensure the reliability of aging bombs would end. The drive to develop new bunker busters, reputedly to target rogue states but really meant to put at risk high-level nuclear command bunkers inside two mountains in Russia, would lose its impetus. The many tens of billions of dollars spent each year on operating and upgrading the thousands of U.S. bombs would be saved.

The United States and Russia currently possess 96 percent of the world’s total inventory of 30,000 nuclear weapons. Most of the rest belong to U.S. allies and friends – Britain, France and Israel. The combined arsenals of Pakistan and India, with whom the United States enjoys reasonable relations, represent a small fraction of 1 percent. That leaves China, hardly an enemy, whose 1 percent of the world total includes 20 long-range missiles that could hit the United States (compared to 6,000-plus U.S. nuclear weapons that could reach China today). Then there is North Korea, which maybe has a couple of weapons but no missiles or planes capable of dropping them on U.S. targets. The other proliferant states of concern – notably Iran – do not yet possess a single nuclear bomb.

A small fraction of the current U.S. arsenal of 10,650 bombs would amply cover all plausible nuclear threats to the American homeland, U.S. allies and interests overseas, if only the idea of fighting a large-scale nuclear war with Russia received the ridicule it deserves. Reasonable people not only scoff at the obsolete idea that the United States must be prepared for such a war in order to deter it, but also appreciate the many unnecessary risks incurred by clinging to this outdated world-view.

This anachronistic nuclear thinking has perpetuated the risky practice of keeping a hair-trigger on early warning and decision-making, as well as nuclear missile forces. Warning crews in Cheyenne Mountain, Colo., are allowed only three minutes to judge whether initial attack indications from satellite and ground sensors are valid or false. (Judgments of this sort are rendered daily, as a result of events as diverse as missiles being tested, or fired – for example, Russia’s firing of Scud missiles into Chechnya – peaceful satellites being lofted into space, or wildfires and solar reflections off oceans and clouds.) If an incoming missile strike is anticipated, the president and his top nuclear advisors would quickly convene an emergency telephone conference to hear urgent briefings – for example, the war room commander in Omaha would brief the president on his retaliatory options and their consequences, a briefing that is limited to 30 seconds. All of the large-scale responses comprising that briefing are designed for destroying Russian targets by the thousands, and the president would have only a few minutes to pick one if he wished to ensure its effective implementation. The order would then be sent immediately to the underground and undersea launch crews, whose own mindless firing drill would last only a few minutes. These tight timelines for decision-making at all levels are driven by only one scenario – a sudden, massive Russian attack.

www.cdi.org...

.....to protect Iran?

You do the math.

I don't care what kind of trade agreement they have with Iran, it isn't worth that, once again, Russia and China will demand the US cease military operations against Iran's nuclear facilities, we won't, and that's it. Just as they do everytime.

Oh yeah, add this to the math equation

Dateline: 07/17/01

Even before Saturday's at-last successful test of their Missile Defense System's "kill vehicle," US defense officials and the Bush administration conceded that further development of the system would eventually violate terms of the 1972 Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty (ABM).

As Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz stated last week, "We have never made a secret of the fact that the president fully intends to deploy a defense of the United States and ... it should be no secret to anyone that Article One of the treaty explicitly prohibits such a defense of national territory."

The ABM treaty is intended to prevent either the US or Russia (then the Soviet Union) from developing anti-ballistic missile systems capable of completely protecting the nations' land areas from a nuclear attack. This arrangement helped enforced the Cold War peacekeeping concepts of "assured mutual destruction" and "deterrence" thought to dissuade either side from launching a "first strike" nuclear attack.

As amended in 1974 and currently in effect today, the ABM Treaty prohibits either the US or Russia from developing, testing, or deploying anti-ballistic missile defense systems capable of protecting the entire country. Both nations are allowed to construct only one land-based missile defense facility each, to be stocked with no more than 100 anti-missile missiles plus associated radar and testing equipment.

Mobile ground, as well as sea- and space-based launching stations, along with anti-missile systems based on "other physical principles" beyond the scope of missile technology common in 1974 are also banned.

Even the early phase of the US missile defense system calls for deployment of ship-launched missiles and airplane-mounted, missile-destroying lasers by as early as 2005. The US Department of Defense concedes that both systems violate the terms of the ABM treaty.

usgovinfo.about.com...

This article is from 2003 as well, hardly the Russia planning an imminent attack on the US:

February 2003


Russia considered the ABM Treaty as the cornerstone of strategic stability and one of the most important strategic documents between Moscow and Washington. U.S. withdrawal from the Treaty and the Bush administration's focus on the development of a nationwide missile defense system is seen by some Russian political and military elites as a resuscitation of the Reagan-era Strategic Defense Initiative. For several years, Russia tried to launch a diplomatic and public relations campaign in support of the Treaty and showed rigidity against any modification. Now that the ABM Treaty has been abandoned, however, there are those in Russia who favor entering into joint ventures in R&D and deployments with U.S. missile defense designers. The success of cooperation on missile defense will depend on the overall status of bilateral rapprochement.

www.nti.org...

]

Alot of people are sleeping on the russians.Dont be fooled they have alot of technology.

I have full respect for the Russians. I don't doubt they can burn my shadow into the ground, I'm sure our missile defense system is far from the nearly 100% effective it would need to be to avoid a nuclear wasteland. But the thing is, the same happens to them. My point was that they won't commit suicide for Iran, no way. We give Russia a little teenie bit more money than Iran anyways.

I have faith in our ABS system, even it it is not 100% ...its still a deterent, Russians are master Chess players and this ABS system is a Knight they can't ignore. Their not gonna take the chance of 1/2 their birds getting intercepted.

Anyhow, its prabably easier to put the MIRV in back of a truck with a camper shell and park it next to their target.


Maximu§

Hi,

very smart collection of articles on the US nuclear strategy. Great sources, sad they are not more widespread, that would avoid loads of cretinist comments on that subject.
Given the silence of the "hardliners": KrazyIvan, Inmydreams, etc. I suspect they decided to have a look on the factsheet before embarassing themselves any further, which is certainly a smart move...

Charles-Etienne Cauville
London

American blind faith vs Russian nuclear missiles?

Let's see who wins. If your children live to tell the tale, don't expect them to look back at you with pride.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
American blind faith vs Russian nuclear missiles?

Let's see who wins. If your children live to tell the tale, don't expect them to look back at you with pride.

American blind faith in what? That Russia won't sacrifice it's very existence for Iran? Is that what we have "blind faith" in? That's not blind faith, that's common sense, read the articles I posted again. Then answer the question I posed to you, do you think Russia and China are going to readily summon a shower of American nuclear missiles to protect Iran?

Hang on to your starry eyed hopes that Russia and China will rescue you from the terrible oppression and devastation America is currently wreaking on your country. Never give up your dream that America will burn in a nuclear fire that the rest of the world can roast marshmallows over, and live happily ever after. It would not be American blind faith vs Russian nuclear missiles, it would be American nuclear missiles vs Russian nuclear missiles. Why would Russia fight a war it CANNOT win?

[edit on 27-1-2005 by 27jd]

American blind faith in what?

American blind faith, that it's meglomania, arrogance and rampage around the world is not going to have consequences for them and no one is going to stop them.

Why would Russia fight a war it CANNOT win?

Have you heard of something called MAD?

You are dreaming that Russia, the 2nd most powerful country in the world, and US's enemy, is going to sit back and watch US expand like a cancer in it's region.

[edit on 27-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by Indigo_Child

American blind faith, that it's meglomania, arrogance and rampage around the world is not going to have consequences for them and no one is going to stop them.

The only ones who can stop the "evil" US government, without bringing about the END OF THE WORLD, is us, the very American people you're bad mouthing so readily, and you, frankly, are not making me real eager to do so.

Have you heard of something called MAD?

Gee. No. What's that? Oh yeah, it's the very same reason I'm telling you Russia Isn't going to do anything unless THEY are *DIRECTLY* threatened by the US, just as we wouldn't do anything to them, unless we were *DIRECTLY* threatend by THEM.

You are dreaming that Russia, the 2nd most powerful country in the world, and US's enemy, is going to sit back and watch US expand like a cancer in it's region.

I'm not dreaming at all. I guarantee you 100% Russia is going to sit back and watch. And you, like always, didn't answer my question. Just like I can almost guarantee to you 100 % you won't this time. Thanks in advance for proving me right.

Do you believe Russia or China will commit national suicide, and that's what it would be, to protect Iran?


P.S. Russia is no longer the US's enemy, sorry to burst your bubble. Any opposition they voice is purely theatrical for the benefit of the hardliners there, but believe what you wish.





[edit on 27-1-2005 by 27jd]

The only ones who can stop the "evil" US government, without bringing about the END OF THE WORLD, is us

You, the American people? Now, that's a good one. Have you forgotten you are the ones who have re-elected Bush and are cheering him on? As for yourself, have you forgotten that you are the one who knows that the government lied about it's reasons for war with Iraq, yet are lobbying behind it for Iran? You are lobbying behind war criminals.

Gee, you are the kind of hypocrits we need to convince to stop the war? God save the world.

Gee. No. What's that? Oh yeah, it's the very same reason I'm telling you Russia Isn't going to do anything unless THEY are *DIRECTLY* threatened by the US, just as we wouldn't do anything to them, unless we were *DIRECTLY* threatend by THEM.

You said to me that Russia would not attack US, because it knows it cannot win. So, I told you about MAD - mutual assured destruction - where neither win.

Further, I am not sure which world you are living in, but it's not real. Just like US is attacking Iran as a pre-emptive measure. Russia, can attack US as a pre-emptive measure. Are you so ignorant and blind, that you have not noted that as early as 2003, Russia is simulating nuclear attacks against America and Europe. Geez, that is what this topic is about.

Have you also not noted that Russia is condemning US and siding with Iran and Syria, that it even considers Iran as an ally. Who do think Russia will be siding with in a world war, Einstein? Hopeless.

I'm not dreaming at all. I guarantee you 100% Russia is going to sit back and watch. And you, like always, didn't answer my question. Just like I can almost guarantee to you 100 % you won't this time. Thanks in advance for proving me right.

Well then, there is your blind faith. As I said it's your blind faith vs Russia nuclear missiles. You are certainly a patriot and a responsible citizen of this world, that for your own blind hate and an imagined threat, would be foolish enough to actually risk the real threat of the complete destruction of your country and allow a future of starvation, famine and disease for your children. Yes, you are a very responsible citizen.

To put this into perspective for you: Russia has thousands of nuclear missiles and an MIRV can carry 10-14 warheads. In a single attack with 10 MIRVS, each with 14 war heads with 400kt yield, 140 nukes would rain down on America. In the initial attack Russia would aim to destroy America nuclear capability by targetting it's stockpiles, thus reducing it's 2nd strike capability.

[edit on 27-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
American blind faith vs Russian nuclear missiles?
Let's see who wins. If your children live to tell the tale, don't expect them to look back at you with pride.

Im not worried bout my boys Indigo, their smart, they get good grades, they can shoot well and they go to church on Sundays. What more can I say....Maybe one day when you have kids, you'll look back at these comments and say: WTF was I thinking?

As far as faith in American hardware goes.......take from an old soldier Indigo, American weaponry is #1. The Russians figuered that out a long time ago and so did the Chinese...perhaps you know better than they do eh?


Maximu§

i just want to add to all the "paranoid" people who are writing and yes i have found from my 27yrs of 33 in America that Americans are the most paranoid with fear...im a Russian-American living in ny, and i constantly despise you who talk of Russia as some dirty rogue country and here we the Americans are the perfect ones...If Russians were nutz and jerkz like some of you say , we wouldnt be here a long time ago, possibly right after the cuban missle crisis..Russians are not dumb asses who are looking to destroy everyone...You know in Russia people like Americans , even the military admires Americans, and here you people are so full of f**king hate it so sad..you are the ones spreading it and then become surprised why powers are coming up against you...it just shows who really plays the propoganda game....dont forget who first used the bomb...dont forget who pollutes the environment more than anyone ...it is us...so before accusing others take a good look at yourself...This whole topic is very offending to me personally because i love both countries and see beauty here and there...do you think our military doesnt exercise the same things they are doing? please understand that the reason these things are going on is to keep peace in the world...to keep those in the military occupied so they dont eat themselves alive, and to keep people like Osamu's satisfied...the bombs prevent war...and America and Russia fully understand this , atleast on the major scale between the intelligent ones...Russia is not a poor country...it possesses more land and more natural resources than North America combined...the fact that maybe some russians appear inferior is not because of their poor intelligence, in fact the high literacy rate would make Americans cry...aside the crime rate, so called bull# war on drugs and all the rest...it is becuase of poor political standards of living .where people were not as free as you to develop ...this does not make them stupid...Im pissed becuase i had to live thru all the stupid films like rambo and other garbage depicting russians as animals or some other stupid acting, looking villains while we the americans are the heros, this breaks me up...ask anyone in Russia and no one will ever tell you that Russia ever made films depicting dumb Americans......the point being to understand is that sometimes your enemy is your best friend, learn to "realize this and respect this" and youll live a happier life...because if the s**t hit the fan the Russians are capable of major destruction that America might never recover from even with all those fancy star wars toys and vice-versa ...have a nice day...learn to understand , and follow the rules of this forum...deny ignorance, rather spread knowledge and respect and decency... Dont use Russians as a scape code for wrong doings , like Hitler did with the Jews. over and out.

[edit on 27-1-2005 by stockbender]

[edit on 27-1-2005 by stockbender]

As far as faith in American hardware goes.......take from an old soldier Indigo, American weaponry is #1. Maximu§

And take it from someone who does not have his head stuck in the ground, the "nuclear weapon" is the #1 equalizer. Take on Russia, and you WILL be destroyed. If you take your head out of the ground, you will know that.

Unfortunately stockbender Russia acts like a rogue country and many times you've armed our enemies...like building a Nuclear Power Plant for Iran for instance. We have good reason not to trust the "Motherland"



Maximu§

have any of you idiots noticed the article is dated "NewsMax Wires
Sunday, May 18, 2003" A bit old. Its collecting dust with the Jihn Titor 2004 civil war theory.

Originally posted by LA_Maximus
Unfortunately stockbender Russia acts like a rogue country and many times you've armed our enemies...like building a Nuclear Power Plant for Iran for instance. We have good reason not to trust the "Motherland"



Maximu§

your just paranoid kid.......and like America doesnt do the same thing?? and who armed the "slaves" when America was being built?? or who taught Osamu's soldiers to blow up the freakin twin towers(which i experienced first hand)...who developed the bomb??? you see its this ignorance and digging into s**t that keeps the ball rolling... its not about who or them , its more about "you" stepping up above and educating yourself to understand that any fault never lies only on one end...just like a stick cannot exist without two ends. Im out of here ...this is too much..

Originally posted by LA_Maximus
Unfortunately stockbender Russia acts like a rogue country and many times you've armed our enemies...like building a Nuclear Power Plant for Iran for instance. We have good reason not to trust the "Motherland"



Maximu§

I don't know whether I should laugh at the irony or cry about the hypocrisy. I know. I'll do both. So, have you forgotten that America armed Afghanistan and Iraq by weaponzing them. I have good reasons to laugh and cry about your statement.

[edit on 27-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
You, the American people? Now, that's a good one. Have you forgotten you are the ones who have re-elected Bush and are cheering him on?

Sorry, I voted for Kerry, and it's my belief Bush stole the election, so assume again, mate. As for cheering him on, I'd much prefer a different president be at the helm, and I'd even more prefer it to be a world effort. But somebody has to force Iran to give up it's weapons program, or at least make a real effort to assure the world they don't. If Saddam Hussein had done that, come out on national televison and say, "We don't have $hit, come and see for yourselves, whatever that dog Bush says we have, whatever secret weapons facilities they say they've found, come in and see for yourself. Our nuclear program is peaceful." And that would pretty much be it, the American people would not let Bush start another war if Iran would just do that. As for Iran needing nukes to protect itself from Israel, well Indigo, if you look at what you've just posted, you say "that it even considers Iran as an ally", so no problem, got your counter balance, your stability.

As for yourself, have you forgotten that you are the one who knows that the government lied about it's reasons for war with Iraq, yet are lobbying behind it for Iran? You are lobbying behind war criminals.

I'm not lobbying behind them, I'm lobbying behind everybody in the world, even if they don't think so. I'm voiceing my personal concern that the very faction that is the driving force of R-A-D-I-C-A-L Islam, not Islam itself, is working to obtain nuclear weapons. If Russia isn't good enough, and you simply must have another nuclear muslim state besides Pakistan, give Egypt the bomb.

Gee, you are the kind of hypocrits we need to convince to stop the war? God save the world.

You don't need to convince me, the Iranians do, and it would be easy for them, like I said before. But instead they're going to continue to delay here, restrict there, and make veiled threats about making nuclear weapons. Which is a shame, because I would love to see them prove me wrong. Really.

You said to me that Russia would not attack US, because it knows it cannot win. So, I told you about MAD - mutual assured destruction - where neither win.

Dude, read my above posts, I feel the brain starting to bleed again.

Further, I am not sure which world you are living in, but it's not real.

Maybe I live in your world, you know, the one that's obviously no where near the real one, you know what one I'm talking about, the one that will be destroyed when this doomsday scenario you seem to be so almost elated by the thought of. You remind me of Dr. Evil or somebody like that, "you Americans will all feel the wrath of Russia's "nuclear missiles", mark my words, you will all die!" It's amusing, I can actually picture you cackling madly at your computer.

Just like US is attacking Iran as a pre-emptive measure. Russia, can attack US as a pre-emptive measure.

Pre-empting what? Did I miss Russia becoming a member of the "axis of evil"?

Are you so ignorant and blind, that you have not noted that as early as 2003, Russia is simulating nuclear attacks against America and Europe. Geez, that is what this topic is about.

And I posted an article from December 2003, outlining what would happen to Russia if they tried to carry out real attacks like the ones they were simulating. And then I posted an article with a little information about our missile defense system that the article said would be partially implemented as early as this year. How, would you say, is that off topic?

Are you so tired of my arguments being vastly stronger that you resort to saying I'm off topic, when I was exactly on the topic on your first post on this thread? Read your first post and tell me what you turned this topic into.

Have you also not noted that Russia is condemning US and siding with Iran and Syria, that it even considers Iran as an ally. Who do think Russia will be siding with in a world war, Einstein? Hopeless.

Yes, hopeless indeed. And I don't think Russia would side with Einstein, first off he's dead, second he would be smarter than to initiate the destruction of Earth, he was a genius, afterall. And I think Russia would be smarter than that as well.

Well then, there is your blind faith. As I said it's your blind faith vs Russia nuclear missiles.

You're acting as if you've added something new to your argument, "there's your blind faith", F-ing hillarious. Once again there's my common sense.

You are certainly a patriot and a responsible citizen of this world, that for your own blind hate and an imagined threat, would be foolish enough to actually risk the real threat of the complete destruction of your country and allow a future of starvation, famine and disease for your children. Yes, you are a very responsible citizen.

Blind hate? I don't hate the Iranians. In fact I hope any military action we take, is air support for an internal uprising with minimal ground assistance. There's quite a large populace in Iran who really want to see Iran be a constructive member of the free world. My hopes are that we support them, while taking out the nuclear facilities. Not an occupation.

To put this into perspective for you: Russia has thousands of nuclear missiles and an MIRV can carry 10-14 warheads. In a single attack with 10 MIRVS, each with 14 war heads with 400kt yield, 140 nukes would rain down on America. In the initial attack Russia would aim to destroy America nuclear capability by targetting it's stockpiles, thus reducing it's 2nd strike capability.

Now, once again, read the article I posted. At least as many would rain down on Russia, and they would aim to, but would not take destroy our nuclear capability, especially, since you know their plan, our military does too.

DUH.