*&^%!!! grrrrr &^%$!!!

reply to post by Thurisaz


ha. gotcha

some dipsticks are twisted the whole way and they seem like they are about 8 feet long. i like the 350's man.
any mods to it?
you can do a lot with those cars. i would definately get an engine management system

reply to post by CardiffGiant


no additional stuff to it, only a navman put in the dash and it is a convertible.

the Volkswagen is proving to be quite a problem.
any ideas of how to get the clips inserted?

maybe it needs a specialised tool?

HanzHenry
reply to post by Thurisaz

 

If you repair things yourself there is a time of relief.

When you start messing with a repair service you must remember. It takes them more time to do the repair (hourly charge) than you with a part that is twice as expensive.

Then you hit a cascade of whammy after whammy.

Imagine your business was a car repair shop, and your mechanics were like bulls in a china shop, but hey everything they break while fixing something else, they just "duct tape it" to work a few days and then they have you again..$$$

i dont agree with any of this. it sounds to me like you have had bad experiences. of course there are some shady places but i dont think they are too common. i think people feel they get ripped off because they dont know what they are talking about.(i dont mean you dont know what you are talking about)
technicians are a skilled trade and you pay for that you know.
sure, there are a markup on the parts. so what?'
if you have say a 350z and it needs a master cylinder would you rather pay 10% more and have it at the repair shop that day or call every local parts store to find it and possibly have it not be in stock and then have to go pick it up? i'd pay the 10%
i especially dont agree with your first part.

more time to do the repair??
so if you had a car and it needed say an alternator repaired you could do it faster than the shop?
maybe you could but i tend to think not.
i have worked in private repair shops and dealerships as a tech and i dont feel i ever ripped anyone off.

if you go to a local chain type shop for say an oil filter and tire rotation they will probably come at you with a short list of things you 'need' or 'should' have repaired and based on the mileage on your car i would venture to say they are correct.
hoses, fluids, belts, etc... they all have reccommended(sp) preventative maint schedules.
look through your owners manual. its true

also, when you get it done at the repair shop, its done correct.
i have seen people do things as simple as change a thermostat and then fill their radiator back up with coolant and they dont do it correctly. to use this as an example most people would fill the radiator back up and be done but there is a correct procedure.
for example you fill it up with the correct 50/50 mix, then turn on the heat and wait for the thermostat to open. once it opens you throttle up a little bit to create a suction and then top the radiator off. also, some cars have 1 or 2 bleeders along the coolant lines that have to be bled and the backyard guy doing his own repairs does not refill properly. at least not 90% of the time.
maybe you do. maybe you know what you are talking about. i just dont like when the repair shops get ragged on about their practices or prices. there are so many things that could go wrong and so many tools needed and then you toss in the people that try to fix it themselves and make it worse.
you do pay high prices at a shop but its worth it. the techs need to be paid. fluids and such need to be disposed of. yeah

reply to post by Thurisaz


i dont know in particular what clips you are talking about but i doubt you need a special tool for it.
i would need to see the hose and/or the clips.

reply to post by CardiffGiant


I know what I am talking about, in early days I was in a motor pool.

And dealerships DO charge a RIDICULOUS amount for labor.. And their parts DO get marked WAY UP.

And they do damage things when fixing others. Why? in a hurry to show "how good/fast" the mech is,

HanzHenry
reply to post by CardiffGiant

 

I know what I am talking about, in early days I was in a motor pool.

And dealerships DO charge a RIDICULOUS amount for labor.. And their parts DO get marked WAY UP.

And they do damage things when fixing others. Why? in a hurry to show "how good/fast" the mech is,

no, not in a hurry. i just hear all the time how people are ripped of by 'them' and i dont feel it is fair because i was one of 'them'.
i agree though. dealerships charge a lot. why is the amount ridiculous though?
$80 per hour maybe for diagnostics and $70 an hour labor. these are not exact numbers of course.
some things are hard to diagnose. obdII diagnostic scanners cost a lot of money. not everything is a simple fix.

while the prices are high i feel they are fair.
people complain about an alignment costing maybe $60. they are not aware the machine cost 25 grand and the tech doing has to go to school.
i just want to defend cause all shops/techs are not hacks. tools, scanners, etc cost a lot of money.
i also dont agree with they damage things when they fix others. i know i didnt.
maybe little things like snapping a stud off or stripping threads. if i did that though i would replace the stud and tap the threads. i never had a car go out more broken than when it came in.
some things happen. brake/fuel lines snap when they are old. it happens and then it gets replaced.

not saying at all you dont know your way around a car but things in the shop, as well as the knowledge costs a lot of money. thats why the labor rate is what it is.
i couldnt even list all the things, including specialty tools that a full functioning shop has to have as well as the lifts, torches, presses.... the list is endless and it has to be paid for

I have a 96 town car and it has a basic V8 where the plugs/wires are EASY to fix.

the ford dealer quoted me $730 to change plugs/wires when I took it to them.. ffs!

and I was able to buy a much better brand than the dealer at half the parts price.

I did the work and all for $116 and 1.5 hrs work. the dealer, with all the "training" and advanced equipment stated it was 3hrs..And the "programming" part that was included in the "great value" is a SCAM that many people don't know!. Disconnect the battery for 1 hour and and it will clear any faults and also since the car has the newer computer (post ;95) it AUTOMATICALLY learns and fixes itself.. SOMETHING the DEALER won't tell, heck that's a $100 BONUS for them..

the problem is there are "service advisors" that you intermediate with between instead of directly dealing with a mechanic. They are the SALES PEOPLE for the service side.

they are used car salesman. Instead of trying to stick you for every penny on a car sale, their job is to SOAK you for every penny their too!

How can a set repair which has exact parts pricing and an exact hour rating fluctuate?

BECAUSE -----> ALL DEALERS use sales people in the service side!

why have sales people in the service side? to INFLATE THE REPAIRS!!

sell, sell, sell.... that should not be part of the repair side. which is why I refuse to buy a new car..

WHY? so the Dealership Owner, Sales Manager, and Salesman all have some of MY MONEY in THEIR POCKET... ABOVE AND BEYOND the value of the car..?

reply to post by HanzHenry


ok. we will agree to disagree.
they dont learn and fix themselves.
i dont know what programming you are talking about with that package.
but, i have heard people talk about the disconnecting the battery to clear codes. you are not entirely correct or are you totally wrong.
different car makers toss different codes for different things. hard/soft codes. sometimes it works depending on the code.
i have heard people say their check engine light goes off after disconnecting the battery. maybe true.
certain codes will continue to throw a code untill 80 drive cycles are completed then the light goes off.

there is a lot to it.

i dont want to ruin the thread anymore. agree to disagree

CardiffGiant
reply to post by HanzHenry

 

ok. we will agree to disagree.
they dont learn and fix themselves.
i dont know what programming you are talking about with that package.
but, i have heard people talk about the disconnecting the battery to clear codes. you are not entirely correct or are you totally wrong.
different car makers toss different codes for different things. hard/soft codes. sometimes it works depending on the code.
i have heard people say their check engine light goes off after disconnecting the battery. maybe true.
certain codes will continue to throw a code untill 80 drive cycles are completed then the light goes off.

there is a lot to it.

i dont want to ruin the thread anymore. agree to disagree

Ford EEC series CPU.. can't believe that is new to you. EEC-V is major improve over EEC-IV

ALL codes reset when you do the battery trick. If the part you fixed was the code culprit, it won't come back on. If it was a soft code (programmed to go off at a set point) it MAY return.. if it is a Hard Code, problem still occurring, it will come back on.

Barter some fresh kill ( Goat you said in the other thread? Butchered and packaged nicely) to someone who knows about cars. Thats what Id do. Im bartering a guy a spare truck we have now for some serious work on a house. Bartering... practice for the zombie apocalypse....

HanzHenry

CardiffGiant
reply to post by HanzHenry

 

ok. we will agree to disagree.
they dont learn and fix themselves.
i dont know what programming you are talking about with that package.
but, i have heard people talk about the disconnecting the battery to clear codes. you are not entirely correct or are you totally wrong.
different car makers toss different codes for different things. hard/soft codes. sometimes it works depending on the code.
i have heard people say their check engine light goes off after disconnecting the battery. maybe true.
certain codes will continue to throw a code untill 80 drive cycles are completed then the light goes off.

there is a lot to it.

i dont want to ruin the thread anymore. agree to disagree

Ford EEC series CPU.. can't believe that is new to you. EEC-V is major improve over EEC-IV

ALL codes reset when you do the battery trick. If the part you fixed was the code culprit, it won't come back on. If it was a soft code (programmed to go off at a set point) it MAY return.. if it is a Hard Code, problem still occurring, it will come back on.

i dont think so. i dont think all codes reset with the battery trick.
if your cars map sensor throws a code and you disconnect the battery, the light may go out but the code is most certainly stored and the problem is still there. light off does not equal problem solved.
people think their battery trick 'fixes' but thats not the case. light goes out, problem is there and the code is stored. thats where the expensive scanner comes into play.
i remember back in 99/2000 i was downloading updates from the internet right into the cars computer. had to have gm tech credentials to do it. not possible for the backyard mechanic to do it.
also, as far as the plugs go, thats awesome that you handle your own stuff but a lot of people dont have the know how, time, or tools so in my opinion dealers still charge fair prices.
i have seen people do their own plugs and not gap them and crank down and way over tighten. just cause they did it dont mean they did it correct.
then things like alignments and computer updates. it does not matter how much you know... these are things you can not do without going to the shop. you can align your car yourself with strings and it may be close, but its not going to be perfect and youre gonna dog track and eat up tires.

and for the record, just cause someone is a tech does not mean they are a genious on every make/model.
when i first started i was in a chain type repair shop then i went to a gm/chrysler dealer.
i am far less familiar with ford.


edit* i wanted to make sure i said that all codes do not reset when you unhook the battery. the check engine light 'might' go out but that does not mean the code is gone. the code is still stored and if the issue was with the map sensor, the problem is still there.
either way, sorry to the OP for getting this thread off track. that was my fault

i mean please just be fair.
most average people can not make more than the most minor repairs. even guys that can have to go to the shop cause everything is not simple. my neighbor has an 01 hyundai tiburon. the water pump blew and the dealer wanted like $800 to fix it.
this thing was a duel overhead cam 4 cylinder and the water pump ran off the timing chains.
that is not an easy fix at all and even guys that know how to wrench would struggle with that.
do you agree?

HanzHenry

How can a set repair which has exact parts pricing and an exact hour rating fluctuate?

i dont understand this question. can you explain?

even though i think dealership prices are fair, i will tell you that a dealership relies solely on the repair side to crack the nut. the sales side is all profit.
prices are high, but in my opinion fair. everything is not an easy fix. not to do it correctly. some things are easy, yes but others can be insane. the repair and the diagnostic problem.
the repair shop makes the money in the dealership though. youre right about that. thats the side that pays the bills so the sales side can make the owner rich.

thats a whole different monster. i worked the new/used sales floor too. i HATED that. worst job ever. the sales and financing force are the biggest cheat/scam artists around. if you think the mechanics are the crooked ones, you should look to the sales force.
there are so many tactics that the sales force is trained on to get more money out. a few hundred here and an interest point there on the back end. it is nauseating

CardiffGiant

HanzHenry

How can a set repair which has exact parts pricing and an exact hour rating fluctuate?

i dont understand this question. can you explain?

if you think the mechanics are the crooked ones, you should look to the sales force.
there are so many tactics that the sales force is trained on to get more money out. a few hundred here and an interest point there on the back end. it is nauseating

Never said the mech's are the crooked ones. Not unless they run the shop, then maybe.

I mean the SERVICE ADVISORS are crooked. They are sales people..

Ask a few what the heat point of a plug is, for, etc..

that is the disgusting part. The mechanic is trying to bust his butt to get the work done ASAP, and if he slows down enough to be careful he may lose his job. And the service MGR would rather a guy go fast and maybe bend/weaken an inlet for an a/c condenser for example while messing with a belt and not even realize it. I wouldn't unless I heard a hiss of Freon.
the point is, the MGR knows that speed kills, but when the victim is a customer with more often needs for help, then "darn it, more money" says the service dept.

i can agree with a lot of what you say. unless youre the lone tech that dont produce and really effects the numbers, going a 'little' on the slow side was always ok. this is from my experience only. maybe i was lucky.
again, you have to produce. that said, when i was at the gm dealership they took us from hourly to flat rate. the switch to that pay plan kinda made sure all the techs produced. im sure you know how flat rate pays so i dont have to explain it. it allowed us to make a lot of money(if we were good), or we sunk. i saw a lot of guys sink. i hated the way they calculated the hours per job in the flat rate books. 'they' would come up with a time frame that a job would pay based on how long it took. it sucked because they based those times off of gm factory master techs working in a clean shop on new vehicles. it does not ad up.
im sure you know how the flat rate pays but do you know how they calculate the time?
i'll tell you cause it sucks.

lets use rear wheel cylinders for our repair and an easy number. so the book says 1 hour.
now the gm master techs will be using a new car in a clean shop. their tools will be all organized and lined up and the clock starts. they remove and reinstall the wheel cylinder. the clock stops at 1 hour. so, the book says it takes an hour, thats what you get paid.
im sure you know removing and reinstalling a wheel cylinder on a brand new, zero mile car in a clean, organized shop is not the same as removing and reinstalling it in a busy shop after it has been on the car for 15 years.
it sucks. so, the service managers get the techs that way.
some jobs take an insane amount of time as well. for example i think when ford had the aerostar van it was something like 15 hours for a head gasket. at least in the book but it took far longer than that.
i didnt work in a ford shop but thats what i heard.

sometimes e would get lucky though. i remember we would get a lot of early 90's cavaliers in for head gasket problems. i dont remember what the book said as far as time but we could all r&r them in about an hour so we all made money on those. after so many you can do it with your eyes closed. know exactly what tools, socket sixes and such.
the service managers are salesman though. i know they would always try to 'upsell' the customer on premium services and things like that.
when i worked at a chain the service writers would try and sell work to the customers based on the techs reccomendations. i didnt feel bad about it though because the work we said needed done was true. true in the fact that according to the manual the preventative maintenance was called for.
know what i mean.

if we got a car in for an oil change and brake pads and the car had 90k on it i would suggest flushing and filling the brake fluid. that is a legit suggestion.
i dont know, maybe i am biased because i was a tech and not a dirt bag. i would not suggest work if it didnt need to be done.

trust me though, the snakes are the new/used sales force. i saw so many things happen that were shady and a rip off to the customer.
the thing that bothered me most was the interest rate. i will tell you how it works.

lets say john goes in to buy a new mustang. he works a deal and they run his credit. they come out of the finance office like this. 'great news john. we got you financed with our agreed upon down payment and we got you the amazing interest rate of 9%.'

john is stoked and signs the deal. he think it seems fair and he can afford it. the shady thing is the bank approved the deal at 5%. so the bank takes the deal at 5% but the dealership gets him at 9%. that means the dealership keeps that 4%.
it happened ALL the time and with far more points than that.
it is the crappiest thing i had ever seen and they did it multiple times per day, every day.

not every customer got hit like that. a lot of them would sign an agreement for price and down payment and take it to their bank or credit union and get their own financing and then come back with a certified check. a lot of people took those deals though.
selling people used cars at 15% when the bank ttook the deal at 8. that is hundreds of thousands of dollars per year.

one of the ford dealers near me sells about 350 new cars every month. probably 500 used ones. if even a small portion of those deals are financed like that it is a lot of money to the dealer and it is perfectly legal.

keep that in mind if you ever go buy a car.

well I had my wagon fixed eventually, but it has broken down again and had to have it towed back home. It just stopped, no sound when you turn the key.

I have had the alternator replaced so it can't be that. Maybe the starter motor?

what the hell else could it be?

Fuel pump would not effect the electrics?

anyway... I love my wagon and my kids are like...just sell it as is cos it is a heap of sihp.... but it isn't.
and my dream is when I retire, I will use that car to travel in and live in....even my dog loves the car.

I might call a auto electrician,mobile one out but I also think that I could save some money if I do some preliminary research of my own.

It must be the starter motor.
??

A man.. you should have thought twice about taking that cars in an unsealed road, especially those uneven surface.. will not be good for a lowered car like Nissan 350z, my brother would slow his N370z to 5km when he goes over speed bumbs.

Those cars are pure city cars or.. race tracks.