Christianity and "Love"

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear


well it would take your thread off topic to discuss what was wrong with your post, but let's just say it showed signs of you having not read the actual op beyond a cursory glimpse and a handful of assumptions. since i put alot of time and thought into that theory, and nose to the grindstone, went meticulously over every word of the texts in question, in more than one language, it was a real affront to me to have it associated with your view of aliens and reptilians, even if they may have been involved.

hopefully, you understand that i didn't spend my time writing and researching all that to convert people to christianity, but to uncover the evidence regarding the interim between the ice age and the events in genesis. i assume all ancient texts are telling the truth in various ways, and that they all have a shared original source. so far, i haven't be disappointed with that approach either.

anyway, its one thing to say you wish christians were more loving and quite another to spend your time insulting their efforts and then say you wish they were more loving. it reminds me too much of someone poking a tiger with a stick repeatedly and then proclaiming -- i dunno why he's growling!!!!

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear

Small comfort.

why? it didn't happen to you. and i didn't do it. so why is my skin color being blamed for it?? think. all you're doing is perpetuating the completely false belief that started the problem back then, in the first place, that skin color detemines the value or behavior of another. you can't wiggle out of that after dropping that bomb shell.

reply to post by undo


As far as the flood post, did I say ONE WORD
against the original thesis? Nope. Not one
word. I've not researched the presence or
absence of chariot remnants or other
evidence related to Abraham. Now I HAVE
done extensive research on the possibility
of a universal or a regional flood, which
may have influenced ancient writings.
But I did not say ONE word about those
either.

I did speak up about genetic viability
of Alien DNA, just because there are
few facts in the world better researched
than human DNA and what it is composed
of.

I'm sorry if that post was in some way
insensitive. From the bottom of my
heart I ask you to forgive me if I hurt
you.

But that said.. the science is the
science.

Now if someone had given me a "god
of the gaps argument" where some
'fringe theory' could hide within..
(and who knows - it might be correct)
then I would just let it go.

Hell dude, I'm a practicing Shaman;
every scientist at ATS would feel
justified in tearing me apart.. and
I would respond with "if you had
my 50 years of experience you'd
understand". Then I'd mention
that 96% of their universe was
missing and to be more open-minded
until the issue of 'shamanism' was
either proved or disproved.

So I hold myself up to the same
standard as anyone else.

Frankly.. I'm on your side.. I'm
on everyone's side.

But you are correct; I don't respond
well to people who are wishing me
into a non-existent flaming pit of
endless torment.

That is RUDE and not even based
on the words of Jesus. Yes I know
about the one story used to refute
that.. but I find that without merit.
It's an extremely weak argument.

KPB

undo
reply to post by KellyPrettyBear

 

Small comfort.

why? it didn't happen to you. and i didn't do it. so why is my skin color being blamed for it?? think. all you're doing is perpetuating the completely false belief that started the problem back then, in the first place, that skin color detemines the value or behavior of another. you can't wiggle out of that after dropping that bomb shell.

I'm not wiggling out of anything. Read the history books.
There is noting to wiggle out of.

I don't now what your skin color is. I don't care what your skin
color is.

I'm not personally blaming you for the actions of the genocidal
European settlers.

I'm not blaming you for the MASSIVE and LEGION negative actions
by Christians through history.

I'm not blaming you for anything.

You can't take things personally like this..

You want to know what my opinion of you was before our marathon
post here?

It was -- wow, what a nice Avatar icon.. looks Indian.. how cool..
I wonder if that person will want to be friends..

There you go.. you caught me. you found my inner thoughts about
you.

And I must say, that after all these words back and forth with you,
I still know almost nothing about you, other than that you are
very sensitive and take general chat personally when it was never
aimed at you.

KPB

But you are correct; I don't respond well to people who are wishing me into a non-existent flaming pit of endless torment.

i don't either.

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear

You can't take things personally like this..

well you probably need to come to grips with the original problem then. what happened was, the guys with power wanted native american land. so they took real incidences of native american behavior, colored it so it looked like the worst thing ever, and then got enough tacit agreement from others, to justify their theft. this is now happening all over the planet, to people of various walks of life and belief systems. including to the people who have white skin that live in america, hundreds of years later, far surpassing any generational curse or revenge factor. for example, men have historically raped women. everyone knows rape is bad. that's as far as it gets. it never leaks over into claiming that therefore all men should be blamed for what some men have done and for the obvious reason, that it would be ludicrous.

winofiend

new_here
reply to post by KellyPrettyBear

 

As a believer in The Way, I do wish all people (Christians included) would stop and think "What would Jesus do?" before they open their mouths or take action.

You're absolutely right, words attributed to Jesus NEVER strayed away from pure, unconditional Love.

Who cares what jesus would do. What would YOU as a good person do.

Hey, I like the words, the parables, the concepts, the love shown. So I do care, and that is how I try to live my life. Got a problem with that? I don't.

What if jesus was a fraud? would you stop being good? Or become a fraud also?

Stop relying on an external guide, use your own self...

Why are you telling me how to be? I choose my own role models to follow.

religion is such a foolish crutch... a mental sling. wwjd... he'd say "GET UP AND WALK." and not carry you everywhere.....

He actually said that to a couple of cripples. And they did. At least that's how the story goes.

Religion is a slippery slope, I'll give you that. Spirituality, on the other hand, is priceless.

Slinging mud at my spiritual quest is not something I would have expected from you, sir. We're on each other's friends lists. And you're the last person to post on my wall. Oh well.

undo
reply to post by KellyPrettyBear

 

You can't take things personally like this..

well you probably need to come to grips with the original problem then. what happened was, the guys with power wanted native american land. so they took real incidences of native american behavior, colored it so it looked like the worst thing ever, and then got enough tacit agreement from others, to justify their theft. this is now happening all over the planet, to people of various walks of life and belief systems. including to the people who have white skin that live in america, hundreds of years later, far surpassing any generational curse or revenge factor. for example, men have historically raped women. everyone knows rape is bad. that's as far as it gets. it never leaks over into claiming that therefore all men should be blamed for what some men have done and for the obvious reason, that it would be ludicrous.

I am fully aware of the original problem.. I write about the "original problem"
in something like 1/2 the posts I make.

And .. I fully agree with this post of yours.. the tendency is to use too broad
a brush... for example I think that the world would be much better off if
women took over, as the TENDENCY is for men to rape page and kill with
a much higher percentage than with women. Few women have ever raped,
pillaged or killed. That said, I know a lot of great guys.. who are NOT part
of the problem.

That said.

The numbers about who killed the native American's and who did not
are not really up for debate by science. Now, as I stated, I can't say
the precise number of those settlers who actively spoke against the
killing.. but presumably it was a small number, as the killing was
extremely effective. There ARE a few historical records of individuals
who said it was wrong to kill Indians, but very few.

On the other hand, for modern atrocities, there are records of millions
of people protesting and seeking to stop the modern atrocities.

I think we've beat this topic to death really..

KPB

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear

I did speak up about genetic viability of Alien DNA, just because there are few facts in the world better researched than human DNA and what it is composed of.

even though i may have entertained the notion that reptilians played a role in the past, i did not mention one word in the op of the flood thread, about it. not only that, i didn't mention one word about ETs. this is why when i saw your post, i realized you were erecting a strawman to shoot down instead of addressing the op

undo
reply to post by KellyPrettyBear

 

I did speak up about genetic viability of Alien DNA, just because there are few facts in the world better researched than human DNA and what it is composed of.

even though i may have entertained the notion that reptilians played a role in the past, i did not mention one word in the op of the flood thread, about it. not only that, i didn't mention one word about ETs. this is why when i saw your post, i realized you were erecting a strawman to shoot down instead of addressing the op

Sorry ... I don't strawman attack anyone.. that is what
unethical people do..

If I recall correctly, I was responding to Alice White.

Again.. get to know me before assuming how awful and
scheming I am. I'm an open book and turn no one away
and will befriend anyone.. even very obnoxious people.



(did you feel I was talking about you as being obnoxious?
I wasn't.. see how you are so sensitive?)

KPB

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear


one of the problems back then was, they didn't have mass media. alot went on that most of them knew nothing about until later, when the deed was already done and a bunch of key words to elicit emotional responses, were used to manipulate them into either agreement or silence. i'm sure they scared them half to death with stories of the savagery of war, but tried to make it sound like it was just the native americans that were behaving badly. they are doing the same thing now, to christians, cause they want our stuff now. that's why they are blaming us for what happened back then, cause it's the key words phase of eliciting emotional responses in preparation of massive theft (most of this part is already done- old people all over the usa, lost their retirements, pensions and life savings in 2008) and genocide.

if the native american people are manipulated into doing that, they will have justified the original crime, rather than having justice. justice can only true be sought at the hands of the actual perpetrator. putting people in jail for someone else's crime, is nothing short of crazy.

reply to post by undo

putting people in jail for someone else's crime, is nothing short of crazy.

yes, you are absolutely correct. Really I think we agree far more than
disagree.

I don't know what all this discussion has been about.

KPB

nvm

kelly

as regards the et/reptilian post in the flood thread, i read over alice's post twice, and didn't see any mention of reptilians or ets. however, i do know of one native american fellow who said his grandfather was visited by an et, who gave him the history of the solar system and parts of the galaxy.

you can hear it here

(it's long. there are 14 videos in all in the series. he also has a book on the web about it. it's called the terra papers)

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by new_here


I only disagreed with the parts where he said I was wrong!



Really, I'd like to think that all the conversations with
Undo were really "on topic".

This 'love stuff' is a messy business, and not for the
weak hearted.

KPB

undo
kelly

as regards the et/reptilian post in the flood thread, i read over alice's post twice, and didn't see any mention of reptilians or ets. however, i do know of one native american fellow who said his grandfather was visited by an et, who gave him the history of the solar system and parts of the galaxy.

you can hear it here

(it's long. there are 14 videos in all in the series. he also has a book on the web about it. it's called the terra papers)

www.youtube.com...

Thanks!

Actually I'm reading and enjoying this book, "Encounters with Star People".
I do try to keep an open mind as a top priority.

KPB

reply to post by new_here


Oh -- I didn't say --

I think you did fine, and are tops in my book!

KPB

KellyPrettyBear


Now a lot of people are initially attracted to Christianity by
love.. they want to be loved.. they want to be loved by God
and they want to be loved by other Christians. When I was
about 14 this described me. I was being abused and molested.
I was very open to being loved by a human being and/or by
God.

What I soon learned, is that all that 'love' in fact comes with
a mountain range of strings attached. There is nothing agape
(divine) about the love..in fact it's so laced with strings
attached, I cannot in good conscience call it love at all.



Well whether Christianity IS or ISN'T about love..
I really think it's fair to say, that one of the major
reasons that Christians get so much disrespect,
is when some of them attach all those strings
to 'their love'.

No living human, even Christians, respect people
who put strings on their love.

Yet if anyone calls a Christian on this bad behavior,
then suddenly "Christians are being persecuted".

So many Christians think that their religion gives
them unlimited "cover" (if God is on your side
who can be against you?) and by "God" they
mean their fractional, partial knowledge of
a book written a hundred years after very
debatable facts.. but more than that.. most
Christians I've known quote stuff off the
internet, stuff written by Christian authors
and all sorts of stuff... nearly NONE of which
is something Jesus ever said at all.

I've yet to meet a loving
Christian (loves without any strings
attached).



. I wish Christians wouldn't
assume that I'm some horrible person,
because I have the audacity to love,
without forcing others to follow my
philosophy of life.

I'd say that this "Christian Love" phenomenon
is a conspiracy alright.. a conspiracy to
defraud genuine love.. to wheel in another
convert.



KPB

Now you understand why you say things that you think will enrage Christians and all the other posts along this line?

This is not about Love, your abuse/experience was of Lust and anger not Love.
The traumatic abuse that happened to you has happened to other children and the abuse is most cases is not by Christians, the people that hurt you are not real Christians or followers of Christ (even though they tricked you into thinking they were ).
Just as some men in power steal land and resources some people abuse and lust after children, BUT we would be very wrong to make judgments/assessments on all white men or all Christians based on the hurtful actions of some.
You cannot generalize about a few who have hurt you and say inflammatory words such as " A Christian's love is to defraud and has strings". This to me is not loving actions.
You separate human beings by their beliefs into" religious" categories then you make sweeping negative statements about Christians based on your experience of abuse .
That to me is the elephant in the room. The elephant hates Christians and blames them .
Love, healing & peace

reply to post by BDBinc


Naw.

Not close to accurate in terms of me.

But thanks for taking your personal time to write that post.

But I will agree, that the lie about a loving God throwing
people into hell, which is at the heart of Christianity
for a lot of Christians is without a doubt, the most
foul thing ever invented by a human mind and hidden
inside of "Love".

I'd say the exact same thing, no matter which religion
or spiritual system were the one committing that
obscenity. In fact there seem to be various religions
which are based on this lie. I can think of another
one with 1.5 billion worshippers. I'm sure there
are others.

FYI, the way that reincarnation is handled in many
religions is an obscenity too.

You talk about my classifying things.. yep.. I classify
things in general buckets as an initial part of a
logical examination. This is what any rational
person does. Now, I'm not (as far as I know) a
small-minded person; so I never 'stick' with
those initial assessments, if there is even a 0.1%
change that is required. You saw me demonstrate
that very thing in this post thread, when European
settlers were being discussed.

Again, thanks for posting.

KPB

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear


KPB

I am not understanding by reading you Op what point you are making however I read the post that said it was in reaction to another post about people dropping bibles in North Korea and that even though the droppers may think they are being benevolent where actually extremely insensitive to the consequences of what could happen if someone got caught with a bible.

I take it that means Christians (who I assume would be the people doing this) where not being "loving at all. but had a ulterior agenda which seems to have very little to do with love....I apologize if I extrapolated too much.

The problem doesn't stem from these people not being loving it is from not knowing what love is.First it is not something you do.Love is not "the act" of doing something "loving" it is a state of being.The state of love is the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.There is not a "method" for love.Those who reduce it to a method may do something benevolent however it is not the state of love at all.

I've known many Christians that can quote 1 Corinthians 13 and spit in your eye at the same time.They can expound on the virtues of the 9 fruits of the spirit and be dried up and dead as a field of weeds.Religion has never made anyone better nor made them enter the state of love.

Yahoshua never said love you neighbor ...OR ELSE!!Everything he said was proclamation to cause things to be in a state of being.When he said ... repent(change) for the Kingdom of God is at hand... it was a proclamation to cause a state of being in someone not a prerequisite demand.After proclaiming this he meets his disciples and they follow him.When he said love one another as I have loved you he again said it directly to his disciples as a proclamation.

The Kingdom of God is a state of being of God living in mans heavens (there is no place somewhere out there that is "heaven"...that is not in the scriptures) .The 1st (and only so far from what the scriptures say) to enter into the heavens was the apostles.Man is completely incapable entering the state of of being of love.God changes (repents) them.It is a process..an infinite process(to go with infinite life).

So it is no wonder at all that the majority of Christians aren't in a state of being love ...neither is most of mankind.That doesn't mean man can't "love" their neighbor as themselves...just that being in that state continuously is impossible.The process is working but like all process it needs to just work.Just as we cannot speed up the process of time or make ourselves wise so the state of being love can't be caused by a method or an act.

Yahoshuas parable is well worth noting (and then forgetting) because it is the truth... the left hand cannot know what the right hand is doing.That is the true state of giving which is love.