Incredible WW1 Footage - Holy *** is this real?

reply to post by mlifeoutthere



It's maybe a Russian or French re-enactment from the 1920's, the tanks are either 'Comrade Lenin's' the first Russian tank, or the French Renault, i did the search on light tanks of the period because in WW1 the British tanks were heavy monsters.


Renault tank


Comrade Lenin

Kantzveldt
reply to post by mlifeoutthere

 

It's a Russian re-enactment from the 1920's, the tanks are 'Comrade Lenin's' the first Russian tank, i did the search on light tanks of the period because in WW1 the British tanks were heavy monsters.


Comrade Lenin

No there were british tanks which looked exactly like that, all the early tanks were that sort of model (at work dont have time to link articles)

kountzero
Its possible the film could be a re-enactment for Pathe news or similar news reel. It was fairly common practice to set up short episodes to compliment the stories told at the cinema. The thing that tells me no though is the fact that the camera does not pan at all, a news camera man maybe hunkered down in a foxhole, cranking the handle [or did they have electric/clockwork then?] with the camera above his head?

Plus the fact that the officer is one of the first to run away, if this was a movie or propeganda footage they would NEVER EVER show that.

Secondly, movie footage even early silent ones, always show the brave rambo marching fearlessly taking down multiple enemy one by one, there is nothing like this here whatsoever.

Look at the panic and fear when the bayonet troops are face to face, they are almost hesitant to make the first lunge, i definatly would say these are either people who were on the front line, or this is real footage.
These are definatly not actors

Even if it is not genuine footage, it gives us a good idea as to the insanity
of war. All those innocent lives lost, fighting for what exactly?

I think i'm right in saying they used the troops to do the re-enactments. If my grandad was still alive i could have asked him, he was a ww1 vet and saw a lot of action across the western front till he came home with about a pound of shrapnel in his bum as he put it.

reply to post by mlifeoutthere



No it isn't British, it's a light tank developed by the French, but it did see service late in the war.

The Renault FT was widely used by French forces in 1918 and by the American Expeditionary Forces (AEF) in France in the later stages of World War I. George S. Patton was the commanding officer and organizer of the first US Light Tank Brigade, entirely made up of Renault FT tanks.


The first French engagement of the Renault FT occurred on 31 May 1918 east of the Forest of Retz at Ploisy-Chazelle, between Soissons and Villers-Cotterets, during the Second Battle of the Marne.

This first engagement was a complete success. Then increasingly larger numbers of Renault FT tanks were deployed together with smaller numbers of the older Schneider CA1 and Saint-Chamond tanks. As the war had become a war of movement during the summer of 1918, the lighter Renault FT tanks were often transported on heavy trucks and special trailers rather than by rail on flat cars. Estienne had initially proposed to overwhelm the enemy defences using a "swarm" of light tanks, a tactic that was eventually successfully implemented. Beginning in late 1917, the Entente allies were attempting to outproduce the Central Powers in all respects, including artillery, tanks, and chemical weapons. Consequently a goal was set of manufacturing 12,260 Renault FT tanks (including 4,440 of the US version) before the end of 1919.

Renault light tank

Look at the tank at 1.00m when it "fires" To me it doesnt seem that the smoke comes from the barrel.
There is no recoil, and the barrel seems to be inclining when the smoke pops. It doesnt look right, unless the turret is equipped with a mortar tube instead of a regular artillery piece. It is different from the others in the distance, did they have smoke laying kit available?

reply to post by mlifeoutthere


That just goes to show what true bravery looks like. They must have had balls of steel in those days to fight like that.

Kantzveldt
reply to post by mlifeoutthere

 

No it isn't British, it's a light tank developed by the French, but it did see service late in the war.

The Renault FT was widely used by French forces in 1918 and by the American Expeditionary Forces (AEF) in France in the later stages of World War I. George S. Patton was the commanding officer and organizer of the first US Light Tank Brigade, entirely made up of Renault FT tanks.


The first French engagement of the Renault FT occurred on 31 May 1918 east of the Forest of Retz at Ploisy-Chazelle, between Soissons and Villers-Cotterets, during the Second Battle of the Marne.

This first engagement was a complete success. Then increasingly larger numbers of Renault FT tanks were deployed together with smaller numbers of the older Schneider CA1 and Saint-Chamond tanks. As the war had become a war of movement during the summer of 1918, the lighter Renault FT tanks were often transported on heavy trucks and special trailers rather than by rail on flat cars. Estienne had initially proposed to overwhelm the enemy defences using a "swarm" of light tanks, a tactic that was eventually successfully implemented. Beginning in late 1917, the Entente allies were attempting to outproduce the Central Powers in all respects, including artillery, tanks, and chemical weapons. Consequently a goal was set of manufacturing 12,260 Renault FT tanks (including 4,440 of the US version) before the end of 1919.

Renault light tank

Maybe the british captured it, we just dont know..

I think just like we cant say for definate this is authentic, we also cant say 100 per cent this is a re-enactment.

One thing for sure, is this is how real wars, by real men were fought

reply to post by mlifeoutthere



They wouldn't have captured them from the French or Americans they were on the same side...!!!

If the footage is authentic that is the Americans under George Patton in 1918 supported by their Renault tanks.

The 326th (under the command of Sereno E. Brett) and 327th Tank Battalions (later renamed the 344th and 345th and organized into the 304th Tank Brigade), were the first into combat, beginning with the Battle of St. Mihiel (as part of the US IV Corps) on 12 September 1918, followed by the Meuse-Argonne Offensive (as part of the US V Corps) on 26 September.The small French Renault FT tanks they were equipped with found the going hard and many were lost or ran out of fuel crossing the battlefield – the Germans, forewarned, had largely retreated from the salient

Tank Corps of the AEF

reply to post by AthlonSavage

im saying that these guys finding were tough and brave,

They were incredibly tough and resilient and there were some remarkable acts of bravery under horrendous conditions.
But what often isn't spoken about is the devastating effect it had on many of those involved. In fact there were also many instances when men simply froze in fear and panic - I for one wouldn't dream of criticising them, I can't even begin to imagine the horrors involved in 'going over the top'.

....you think the new age feminised men of today could last 5 second in that situation, hand to hand combat with tanks rolling towards them and mortars going off 10 feet away,

Yes, many modern men could indeed handle themselves in exactly the same way as those involved, simply a case of adapting or dying and 'man' has an in built instinct for survival, like all animals - that will never change despite social engineering exercises etc.

no way not unless its on x box.

On this I agree - it's frightening how many grown adults live in their own little bubble of X-Box and believe in the realness and accuracy of it. They struggle to deal with 'real' life and so escape into their own little worlds - the realities of war would be a rude awakening to say the least.

Let's hope we never have to find out.

the camera may be set up in a bunker. The film is obviously very old and if it was faked it looks more realistic than modern war movie recreations.

I'm not quite convinced of the authenticity of this footage. Some of the action seems pretty realistic but then again some of the hand to hand fighting seems quite tame, the manner in which some of those shot appear to die is rather suspect and as previously mentioned the presence of low flying aircraft suggests that this may be a recreation.
But I'm certainly no expert in any of this and I recognise that I'm just as likely to be wrong in my assessment than I am likely to be correct.

What I imagine is a decent modern day recreation of WWI trench warfare is the battle scene in the Canadian film Passchendale.

www.youtube.com...

And I think it's fitting that The Last Tommy, Harry Patch has the last words;

Patch had always felt, he wrote in The Last Fighting Tommy, that "politicians who took us to war should have been given the guns and told to settle their differences themselves, instead of organising nothing better than legalised mass murder".

www.theguardian.com...

It wasn’t worth it. No war is worth it. No war is worth the loss of a couple of lives let alone thousands. T’isn’t worth it … the First World War, if you boil it down, what was it? Nothing but a family row. That’s what caused it. The Second World War – Hitler wanted to govern Europe, nothing to it. I would have taken the Kaiser, his son, Hitler and the people on his side … and bloody shot them. Out the way and saved millions of lives. T’isn’t worth it.

www.bbc.co.uk...

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by mlifeoutthere


There appears to be a few inconsistencies (already mentioned) that make me doubt the authenticity. On the other hand, particularly later on, there were also combined Allied assaults so that could in some way explain some of these inconsistencies.

On this note though, here is a link to a story on Harry Drinkwater. He is a former soldier in the Great War who has just had his trench diary published. The source is the Daily Mail but the content is authentic......

Diary of the damned

It really brings home the horrors of that war.

The only part that seems unrealistic is how the soldiers die so easily. I'd think there'd be a lot more thrashing around. Real or not it does give a good look at what it may have been like in those moments when all the bravado and songs are gone and it's just a bunch of kids with sharp bayonets and guns coming up right next to each other and the few moments of hesitancy. Officer runs away - a true politician.

AthlonSavage
reply to post by mlifeoutthere

 

that's awesome, a world where metro men didn't exist, amazing stuff

Amazing? Really?

It's not amazing, it's pathetic. It shows in stark reality the complete and utter insanity of war and of Humanity...there's nothing amazing about that IMO...it's depressing as hell to realize, that without the monsters who envisage, plan for and then propagate this barbarity in our world, over and over again throughout the ages...we would have colonised other worlds by now.

Without war we would be like gods, instead we're worse than base animals.

This appears to be a "comercial" for want of a better description of the tanks



also

Had a quick blast through some authentic film clips. the one thing that strikes me is, and it is very obvious now i look for it, the camera is way to steady to be in real combat. Every clip i have seen has had some shakeyness to the image even in not combat situations. The camera would at least shudder a little if the motar rounds went off as close as they appear to be.

reply to post by mlifeoutthere

One thing for sure, is this is how real wars, by real men were fought

Real war?
Any war is real enough for those fighting and dying in it - there's no glory in war.

Real men?
Many of whom were literally crapping themselves with fear as they were forced to go 'over the top' by officers holding revolvers to their heads.
The reality of war is not glorious.

Those who fought deserve our eternal gratitude and respect but they never viewed themselves as 'real men', they witnessed at first hand the senseless waste of it all.
And for what?
And what benefits those who fought gained for themselves and their descendants are slowly being eroded and even willingly handed back.

kountzero
This appears to be a "comercial" for want of a better description of the tanks

also

Had a quick blast through some authentic film clips. the one thing that strikes me is, and it is very obvious now i look for it, the camera is way to steady to be in real combat. Every clip i have seen has had some shakeyness to the image even in not combat situations. The camera would at least shudder a little if the motar rounds went off as close as they appear to be.

What if the camera was set up in a steady position an hour before hand, to film the british advance, then some germans put up resistance (as is seen here), and the camera man was shot and the camera kept rolling, that would explain the lack of movement by a camera.

Think of it, all this effort, all these troops just for one single bit of footage?

Also, if you look at the speed of the planes ahead, the clip doesnt seem to be in sync at some points, so that may explain a thing or two

Authentic or not, this is definatly as close to the real thing as you will ever see

yeah, very close indeed.

After a bit more searching i came across this



part of a film being restored atm it seems
and a follow up to

The Battle of the Somme (film)

Its possibly another section of

The Battle of the Ancre and the Advance of the Tanks

reply to post by Flavian

On this note though, here is a link to a story on Harry Drinkwater

Just had a read of the article you linked to; seems like a good read, think I'll be buying a copy quite soon.

These images are extremely poignant, yet only tell a small part of how WWI was fought.

They were brave, very very brave, but didn't have a choice. Young men many of them from Pal's Brigades ordered to charge to their death.

This particular war was played out by Generals many miles from the frontline, who simply ordered thousands upon thousands to charge at a bank of machine guns to capture in most cases a few feet of land.

My own Great Grandfather was in the Battle of the Somme and when he returned back to Blighty, the atrocities he witnessed and the constant shelling affected him to the end of his life. Although he was lucky to be able to return, he died prematurely at the age of 48.

Brave men being led by stubborn and foolhardy Generals, on both sides!!

AthlonSavage
reply to post by mlifeoutthere

 

im saying that these guys finding were tough and brave, you think the new age feminised men of today could last 5 second in that situation, hand to hand combat with tanks rolling towards them and mortars going off 10 feet away, no way not unless its on x box.

the camera may be set up in a bunker. The film is obviously very old and if it was faked it looks more realistic than modern war movie recreations.

edit on 8-11-2013 by AthlonSavage because: (no reason given)

I don't know what men you are talking about,But I can tell you this;we are not all girly like so speak for yourself girly man.