Economic Equality

There are many people who are against economic equality and think its for the benefit of society to have classes in which define people. I believe that people are against this type of equality because 1.) they are taught to resist it 2.) don't realize what its like to struggle economically. I doubt there will ever be economic equality but the world would be a better place for everyone if it were a reality.

Anytime anyone questions capitalism people turn red in the face instantly. There is no rational thought to the fact that capitalism does not work. It may sound good in theory, but theory doesn't help those without. Money itself doesn't not work because of the human nature of greed, control, and image(identity).

Capitalism drives competition and competition leads to a society where people get left behind and forgotten. The fact that society is becoming more and more isolated doesn't hep either. Look at the way businesses are run these days, they don't care about people just turning profits to compete in a capitalist environment.

I'm not supporting a government run market system, but at the same time, what we have isn't working either.

I wanted to get your input on why economic equality is such a bad thing.

reply to post by Ralphy


The problem stems from certain jobs being more difficult and requiring more skill then others, how do you suggest fixing that?

reply to post by Ralphy


No one seems to want to touch this one... so I guess it might as well be me to reply.

Economic equality, socialism, communalism and cooperative economic organization. Different names that have the same definition. I actually had this very debate with a friend recently. So... as luck would have it, I can actually answer your question.

Socialism was based on the study of insects.
For example.. Ants and Bee's are social insects who work together for the common good of the leader of the Hive. They have done this successfully for millions of years. I would like to focus on Bees in this case.
Every insect in the Hive is designated a job before birth and they work until they die in the name of the better good of the hive. When the Hive has gotten too big to sustain the common good of the social community...a New Queen is generated and sent out to create a new hive. She if full of Pheromones that will attract others to the hive.

Since insects have a very simply brain... they act on instinct, physical and visual cues. They might also have the ability to react to taste and smell... just to keep it simple and keep the "big confusing words simple" But what would happen if just one Bee in the hive was a free thinker? The little bee brain evolved a little and made it a mission in life to tell all the other bees in the Hive how the life they are forced to live in is wrong?

Because I Love science and Philosophy.. lets take it 1 step further... Humans have been taking advantage of Bee's since they discovered the tasty treat before organized history was written. (let me state...I am not a vegan and Love meat) And my Honey as well...

But the problem with socialism is this... we are not insects born with simple brains. Most of us know it is not our job to provide for the better good of the hive...And a few of us are thinkers, problem solvers and scientists... Those that are ... actually have good ideas on how to improve the Hive and teach them to be independent and successful "worker bees" on their own.

Bottom line... Socialism is like a Hive mentality. Just do your job you were assigned for the greater good of the hive like a robot. you have no right to free thought or the ability to do nothing more in life than your job and take care of the other bees. Even if you know you have the ability to help a fellow bee become more productive and successful.

So...if you want to debate this further...remember some key points about the "hives". At some point the hive always gets too big to sustain itself. Only 2 things can happen at that point.
1. A new Queen needs to be generated and sent out to create a hive of her own.
2. The entire hive collapses.

reply to post by Ralphy


As and aside:

If you get a chance (a long one), take a read of Marx's "Capital: Critique of Political Economy".

Ralphy

I wanted to get your input on why economic equality is such a bad thing.

It is because economic equality cannot be sustained. For all people to be economically equal in one location (country), there would need to be slaves and poor people elsewhere.

In the last 50 years or so generations have been born in a world where we are "taken care" of. We expect (in fact , consider it our right) to get a job. We forget what a job is. Well, let me remind you. A job is someone who wakes up early in the morning; puts his heart and soul into running a business ; makes a profit and expand and recruits people like you and me.

Too many people want the government to create jobs (which are really artificial). This will lead to the destruction of a country's economy unless real wealth is created.

The only way to achieve a form of economic equality is for every one to run their own business. This is how it used to be in ancient times.Everyone survived from their own efforts (farmers, craftsmen, etc). If everybody is self-employed and you do not have the old division of aristocracy and peasants, then there is some kind of economic equality.

Of course , those who work harder will be richer. So it should be.


Anyway , which forum is this ? I thought it was Philosophy and Metaphisics. Perhaps you have caught on to the relationship between money and physics

Thanks for the input. I try to keep an open mind and I have seen you guys have raised good points I haven't thought of before.

I posted this in this forum to get more of a philosophical perspective view.

Its just frustrating to see the wealth gap between those who work hard and those who don't. I don't think those who contribute nothing should be able to get what they do while others work so hard for so little.

Those that work hard should be entitled to get at least what those who don't work get. My point being is that some people make more on unemployment that those that work.

reply to post by Ralphy


I could post a picture of 1950's China where 'equality' of the people was the system and compare that to the USA...!

reply to post by MadMax9


China is actually a good example of Communism/socialism on the brink of collapse.
(what ever one wants to call it. If It acts, quacks and looks like a duck, pretty sure it's a dang Duck.)

In 1979 they implemented the one- child policy because overpopulation was going to cause the system to fail. So they made a law and deemed having more than one child was illegal and punishable by fines. The result was forced abortions and abandonment if newborn infants. It was never really effective in controlling the population and actually cost the system more to maintain. The fines were not enough to cover the increased cost of enforcement and the new need of orphanages for the abandoned children.

They have also implemented internet censorship. (because some of their bee's were getting ideas)
I thought I read something recently about the UK or somewhere recently was starting to do the same? I could be wrong. My focus has been on my own Country these days (United States) and the nit wits in charge who think we should go in the same direction. But I know Cuba has been doing the same for years as well.

I have been actively speaking out to others in my Country about the dangers of socialism because I know the Danger. I am afraid we are headed in that direction... but there is still time to stop it. The biggest danger is once every Country has been converted.... there will be something bigger in control. (some of you will get this)

A few others that posted made some good points. And I get why some think converting to this type of system might benefit them. One of my country's biggest mistakes was creating a long term welfare system. It should have never been a long term law to a solve a debt crises. It created dependency of Government help when needed and turned it into a lifetime dependency for many... too many. It was sold on working to pay into a program called Social Security to fund the people in need and receiving a benefit back when you retire. Too many stayed on welfare and abused the system... The government realized that system was not working because of all the dependency and abuse and changed the age of retirement and made SS a tier system. Basically telling the people sold the "investment" will have to work longer to receive 100% of their benefit.

Good thing so many employers have set up a 401k for hard workers to fall back on when SS dries up right? I assume it won't be long before the government goes after that as well.

Right now, I know I am lucky to live in one of the best states in the US as our economy is stable and thriving. And I have friends in other states that are struggling. The unions are crumbling and so are the jobs. Union workers revolt because they are not treated fairly...

We need to focus on private based companies not controlled by the Government. And a change in the mindset of the current majority of the population. A private employer who is not taxed every time they take a breath is able to grow and share the wealth with others. Not every employer is evil and greedy.... I have a little of experiences on both sides of that one.

I can honestly say with experience, my own Government needs a change. I get to pay around $3000 a year to live in a home I own free and clear to pay for many things I don't utilize. And my home is rural and modest. A few other homes I looked at in town had a 10,000+ yearly property tax assessment. (I am a bit of a thinker bee with a mind of my own)

We all need a change and restructure in all of our Governments...but a Global one is the wrong direction. I understand not everyone has been able to live the life I have. And the majority of you were born into something only knowing that is just how things are now. But things were not always like they are now. Even the school History books have been written differently. Be a thinker Bee... there are so little of those types left.

reply to post by livinglifeseekingtruth2


I tend make lengthy posts to things I am passionate about. Sorry... But I only get out a little of what I have to say about the topic as well...

although I normally despise the linking to wiki... this is a rare case that I will because it enables people who think to have other areas to jump off on and read in more detail. I know I don't want to be like China...

en.wikipedia.org...

Economic equality, socialism, communalism, cooperative economic organization or capitalism.....

All part of the same basic foundation but interpreted and structured a little differently by the Leaders of the Hive....

The ones on top that sell you something so they can maintain the lifestyle they believe they deserve... without actually working themselves. The ones on top need those that Do... to make it work... And gain their power by getting those that can't or wont to side with them so they can maintain their backing. (here in the USA anyway) The promise of something for Free to those who depend on the Government already is the only way to get votes.

Kind of strange how the Government depends on others to sustain the lifestyle they feel they deserve. And always need more and more....And yet.... there is still poverty and slavery in every single area of the Globe. If you want to abolish poverty... maybe you need to stand up and think about how to keep the overpaid officials in charge from stinking their hands in the candy bowl at every whim.