How Shariah, an Intended Compass for Peace, Became a Tool of Oppression

reply to post by wildtimes

You make me tired. Read it, and respond to THE ARTICLE

The article is just fine and there is nothing in it for me to "respond" to. I am, however, responding to YOUR statements about terrorism, concerning an article that has nothing to do with terrorism.

Blame it on THE SOURCE SITE: islamforwest
The title of THIS THREAD is EXACTLY the title of the article, copied and pasted.
You STILL didn't read it, did you?

I read the article from the link....and there is nothing in the source site or the article about terrorism and suicide vests, as you commented in the OP.

I don't have to have your permission to peruse muslim sites, sk0rp, and you do not have MY permission to libel me, nor put words in my mouth.

Well. you certainly don't need anyones permission to misquote articles from Muslim sites so you could go on and on about terrorism and suicide bombers.

As for putting words into your mouth, YOU said these things in the OP....

What's with the terror and violence and never-ending strife?

Oh, really? Okay then, gimme that bomb vest!

Power-mongering. Terrorism. Strap that vest on and GO! SCARE the survivors
into submission.

Theres a difference between intelligently analyzing an article about Sharia.... AND simply quoting bits and pieces of it and going "terror!" "bomb vest!". Which is what you have done with the OP, and I am calling you out on this.

In short,

a) The article is addressing Sharia from a legal perspective.
b) The words "terror" and "extremists" and "suicide vests" don't even appear in that article. So there is a problem with the way YOU have interpreted the article.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

b) The words "terror" and "extremists" and "suicide vests" don't even appear in that article. So there is a problem with the way YOU have interpreted the article.

Terror, extremists,, and suicide vests are the real-life, on the ground, every day results of twisted Muslim thinking. You can deny it all you like; they exist, and there are clerics that encourage it. Period.

The article addresses wrongful teaching. It's not rocket science to link the two.

reply to post by wildtimes


I didnt see that you invited me because ATS doesnt work well on my mobile phone from the time they changed it. Its actually a pain to even reply and you may have noticed that I have stopped posting threads.

Anyways I see what you want me to say and I'l say this, I agree in general with the article. Sharia is meant to ease making a peaceful and just society. I will also like to clear that just because I agree with one article, I do not automatically agree with everything that is put on that site.
If you want to know some authentic sites that i use then I could give their names.
Try www.whyislam.org
you may get many of your answers.

The majority of people are peaceful but when a chaotic individual with great confidence fires them up they begin hive behavior. They start to get screwed up collective consciousness, looking at destroying anything that interferes with their beliefs. This has been and continues to be normal behavior in our world. It is not right, but it is considered normal....think about that.

Keeping people arguing about piddly things keeps hive behavior from getting out of control. The problem is that there is also a good collective consciousness that is also being suppressed. This is a major problem in our country, the deceitful people have taken over, sucking the pennies out of everyone like a swarm of mosquitoes.

What we have in this country is not right either. Even science tries to drain our money and separate us based on our beliefs. Someday maybe we will evolve into an intelligent and practical race, but it appears that will be far in the future. I will never live that long and neither will my grandchildren.

reply to post by wildtimes


Terror, extremists,, and suicide vests are the real-life, on the ground, every day results of twisted Muslim thinking. You can deny it all you like; they exist, and there are clerics that encourage it. Period.
The article you quoted is about shariah from a legal perspective, NOT terrorism. There is a big difference. Your misreading of the article doesn't change the points expressed in the article.

The article addresses wrongful teaching. It's not rocket science to link the two

"Shariah" and "terrorism" are NOT the same. So linking the two isn't rocket science, its sheer ignorance. If you want to discuss the exact points in the article, go right ahead.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


First of all, please fix your post to indicate that the first two lines in it were mine, not yours.

Secondly, the Koran and Shariah are totally linked, dude. They are the Muslim handbooks and guidelines.

The Koran DOES have passages that encourage violence and oppression. You can't dispute that.

Shariah ALSO encourages violence and oppression. You can't dispute that, either.

It is what it is. Those guys beheading people believe they are doing Allah's will. Why they believe that is wrapped directly in the Koran, with Shariah as the bow on top; and Shariah is what those people want to install as the law of the entire world.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

The article you quoted is about shariah from a legal perspective, NOT terrorism. There is a big difference. Your misreading of the article doesn't change the points expressed in the article.

"Shariah" and "terrorism" are NOT the same. So linking the two isn't rocket science, its sheer ignorance. If you want to discuss the exact points in the article, go right ahead.

Really? Okay, then, be my guest. Dissect the article for us, using lines and paragraphs from it, and then follow it up and show us how Shariah is not related to the beheadings and suicide bombers. Show us how Islamists are not promoting harsh versions of Shariah, and enacting atrocities they think represent Shariah.

wildtimes
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

b) The words "terror" and "extremists" and "suicide vests" don't even appear in that article. So there is a problem with the way YOU have interpreted the article.

Terror, extremists,, and suicide vests are the real-life, on the ground, every day results of twisted Muslim thinking. You can deny it all you like; they exist, and there are clerics that encourage it. Period.

The article addresses wrongful teaching. It's not rocket science to link the two.

Terrorism, Extremism and suicide vests are not exclusive to muslims/Islam.
A prime minister in India was assasinated by a woman wearing a suicide vest and she was not a muslim, she was a naxal. Naxals cause terrorism in India but oddly they are not labeled terrorists.
Suicide vests are mainly seen in war zone where the people fighting back have almost no other means to retaliate. It has nothing to do with religion but yes people may seek religious justification.
In short, "suicide bombing is used by the side who does not own an airforce"

Its very wrong to link it with Islam or muslims.

Let me clear that taking any innocent life in wrong according to Islam.

maybe you must have seen the movie Independence Day and remember the scene when the last missile gets stuck and the drunk pilot just rams his jet into the alien ship.
What do you call him? Aliens would sure call him a suicide bomber!!


If you really want to stop suicide bombings, then stop the injustice and aggression in the muslim lands. Or maybe you have bought into the idea that the aggression is necessary for the security of US citizens(i know you haven't)

If there was an aggressor who was oppressing and bombing a buddhist majority country, you would see buddhist suicide bombers but then you wouldnt link it to buddhism so how about using same framework of thinking for Islam too?

Yes, muslims are not afraid to die if they are fighting for their rights and Islam does encourage muslims to be brave and not stop supporting truth and justice for the fear of death or hurt. There is nothing wrong in that. Muslims are certain that there is an afterlife and a day of accounting so death doesnt seem as an end unlike to the uncertain, materialistic people.

reply to post by logical7

Terrorism, Extremism and suicide vests are not exclusive to muslims/Islam.

No, they are not. I am aware of that.

But when Al-Qaeda or the Taliban CLAIM RESPONSIBILITY, there is no denying that they are doing it with Shariah law in their minds. Malala still has a death threat on her head; and her shooter just got 'promoted' to the leader of the Taliban.

How does bombing a market and killing shoppers and innocent civilians get justified? Those shoppers and innocent civilians weren't attacking the bomber with aircraft. They were shopping, chatting, going about their business to the best of their ability.

reply to post by wildtimes

The Koran DOES have passages that
encourage violence and oppression.
You can't dispute that.

Shariah ALSO encourages violence and
oppression. You can't dispute that,
either.

Can't dispute that? LOL

I can refute that. Qur'an strictly discourages aggression even forbids it and warns believers from never becoming agressors.

[2:190] You may fight in the cause of
GOD against those who attack you,
but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors.

[5:87] O you who believe, do not
prohibit good things that are made
lawful by GOD, and do not aggress; GOD dislikes the aggressors.

[8:61] If they resort to peace, so
shall you, and put your trust in GOD.
He is the Hearer, the Omniscient.
[4:90] ... if they leave you alone,
refrain from fighting you, and offer
you peace, then GOD gives you no
excuse to fight them.

[6:151] Say, "Come let me tell you
what your Lord has really prohibited
for you: You shall not set up idols
besides Him. You shall honor your
parents. You shall not kill your
children from fear of poverty - we provide for you and for them. You
shall not commit gross sins, obvious
or hidden. You shall not kill - GOD has made life sacred - except in the course of justice. These are His
commandments to you, that you may
understand."

reply to post by wildtimes

wildtimes
reply to post by logical7

 

Terrorism, Extremism and suicide vests are not exclusive to muslims/Islam.

No, they are not. I am aware of that.

But when Al-Qaeda or the Taliban CLAIM RESPONSIBILITY, there is no denying that they are doing it with Shariah law in their minds. Malala still has a death threat on her head; and her shooter just got 'promoted' to the leader of the Taliban.

How does bombing a market and killing shoppers and innocent civilians get justified? Those shoppers and innocent civilians weren't attacking the bomber with aircraft. They were shopping, chatting, going about their business to the best of their ability.

Why do you keep singing the same song even when its clear that its not the way you are trying to show it?

Islam forbids killing innocents so if someone kills innocents how can you say that its because Qur'an says it or Sharia encourages it?

Al-Qaeda and Taliban both are the products of USA's foreign policy and desire to dominate the world. Its you who should say sorry to Malala as your government armed the Taliban to fight the Soviet and then left them to run amok once their objective was achieved.
You cannot arm and fund extremists for your selfish goals and then come and tell muslims that Islam and Qur'an promotes violence.
You cannot support Saudi royals and their oppression and then say that Islam subjugates women and doesnt let them drive!

reply to post by logical7


Taking any innocent life? Ha. Define "innocent", if you will. I suppose "innocent" fluctuates with the whims of dominating political powers and their lackeys...doesn't it always?

reply to post by logical7

Al-Qaeda and Taliban both are the products of USA's foreign policy and desire to dominate the world.

Why do you keep singing the same song, and saying "you did this and you did that" as though it is my personal responsibility? Did I, personally, do anything to those people? No. I am here challenging bad behavior of ALL SIDES; your side, the Zionists', the Christians, the Saudis, the Islamists, and The USA Administration. Every bloody day, I'm on here protesting bad behavior.

And every day, Islamists are killing people, random people --- are you saying the Islamists are NOT wanting to take over the whole world?

Okay, we're done. I know you blame 'the Evil west' and American Imperialism (the latter of which you KNOW I detest), when it's quite clear that Al-Qaeda and the Taliban and the Muslim Brotherhood and other related organizations ADMIT that their actions are based on forcing Shariah onto everyone, not only Shariah, but THEIR version of it, brutally and wholly. Their 'justifications' do not make it "right."

Jesus please us, own some responsiblity. I have, and I work to hold accountable those who continue with their capitalist, imperialist, dirty warfare....and you know it.

The article was written BY A MUSLIM to explain how radical Islam is being taught by wayward clerics...and their efforts to oppress others. Violence begets MORE VIOLENCE. Everyone needs to try DIPLOMACY.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by logical7

 

Taking any innocent life? Ha. Define "innocent", if you will. I suppose "innocent" fluctuates with the whims of dominating political powers and their lackeys...doesn't it always?

Not in the eyes of God and if simple pure common sense is used.

reply to post by logical7

Not in the eyes of God and if simple pure common sense is used.

Common sense and religion keep little company these days, from what I hear. But at least some are learning to differentiate between the two.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Common sense and religion keep little company these days, from what I hear. But at least some are learning to differentiate between the two.

Yes, and the Pope is one of them. He's great! Will I become Catholic? No way! But, the Pope is great. I read this morning that he is the most famous talked about person on the planet right now...! Yeah, the conservatives don't like him; but he is SPOT ON.

reply to post by wildtimes


He is breaking the mold. Have I not said that the ever-popular dominance complex is disheartening in that it spites progress for the sake of familiarity and convenience? Pride is losing ground with this new Pope in office. I think that is the secret of humility. Those who are humble will always find a way forward where those choking on pride dare not step.

The Cart Before the Horse:

Terrorism and violence in Islam

When one attempts to dialogue with any Muslim, moderates included, endeavouring to understand the relationship between terrorism and Islam, one is confronted with a response that, in effect, puts the cart before the horse by reversing the order of "cause" and "effect" in a defensive barrage of unrelated events and injustices - all the while admitting no wrongs - which ends up in a form of self-justification of the works of terror. Though the person speaking may, in fact disavow terror as a tactic to achieve redress, their opinion remains as follows:

‘Look what happened in Bosnia, and Herzegovina! See the brutality in Kosovo, Afghanistan, Chechnya, Iraq, Palestine, and now, Lebanon! …

… Look at the vicious and violent acts that are perpetuated even by the American forces and the other occupational forces in Iraq and Afghanistan! Look at the atrocities of Abu Ghraib Prison! …

And… how about the Crusades? The Europeans invaded us and caused conflict for over two hundred years. Conflict that included massive bloodshed and brutality! And, don’t forget what Hitler did to the Jews? Are we responsible for that? …

And…all those injustices to the Arabs in general, and the Palestinians in particular! For example, look at the American support for Israel despite the latter’s violations and rape of the human rights of the Palestinians, and its defiance of all international pronouncements!…Israel… that occupies almost the whole of Palestine, after snatching it from its rightful owners following World War II, then making its women and children homeless, and scattering them all over the world or condemning them to a meagre existence in refugee camps! …

And…what about the practice of violating Islamic holy sites and its historical monuments? …

You see…all these injustices naturally lead to violent reactions, and are the reasons for the retaliation and the terrorism with which Islam gets falsely accused and of which it is fully innocent!…And so, we ask, "Is self defence a crime? Is the Arab and Islamic blood cheap?"

THIS ^^^ is exactly how the dialogue goes, indeed when the Muslim apologists - even the moderate ones who practice apologetics speak to the problem.
We non-Muslims honestly DO want to understand.

But, this source (anti-Islam or not), explains it much the same way that the OP article (pro-Islam) does:

Why do the Arabs and the Muslims overlook their own history and their own sacred writings when asked to find a ‘cause’ for terrorism? Especially in view of the established fact that their "holy Jihad" is found recorded in the Qur’an?

Let’s face it, terrorism and violence in Islam is NOT a result of economic and political injustices from which the nations of those regions suffer - as is propounded and perpetuated by well-meaning Westerners, "moderate" Muslim political advisors, and possibly, some think-tank experts.

No, honourable pundits! Terrorism and violence in Islam isn’t a phenomenon due to either political or economic injustices.

No, not at all! In fact the painful truth is that terrorism and violence are fundamental components of Islam. In fact, Islam, without bloodiness and savage brutality, simply is not Islam. Islam without the spilling of blood would wither and die.

However, although the ‘injustices’ suffered are not the actual ‘causes’ of the terror, they are in every sense very real, and one can easily establish that all these injustices of every kind - be they political, economic, or social - are tools, ingredients, and ammunitions, which are being utilized most effectively by the overseers and the recruiters of Islamic terror, to motivate, train, manipulate, and launch new Jihadists for the cause of Allah.

Both real and perceived ‘injustices’ are employed by the terror managers within the various organizations like Al Qaeda and the others to pollute and brainwash the minds of the Muslim youth, for the purpose of ‘bringing them back’ to the true Islam of the Qur’an - which is then able to turn them into self-exploding suicidal martyrs.

What do these young men and women find when they return to the Qur’an with the newly awakened desire and determination to ‘play their part’ in the Islamic ‘struggle’? They find - Islamically speaking - that enmity with the Jews and the Christians and the call for their killing is quite normal, and is actually a divinely ordained obligation which is placed on all Muslims by Allah. And they are further buttressed in their new resolve by the Qur’anic promise that death in the cause of Islam transports one instantly to Paradise. This is the formula for a suicide bomber.

Yep, this is from several years ago, at answering-Islam, which, naturally, I'm sure they will not address as it's from a "tainted site." But, the answers are there, all the same.

Would that you guys address the REAL issues, instead of using the tired excuses highlighted in the upper extext. We've heard it. Every day. That's what you tell us, time after time. Yet, we're not buying it!
Why? Because it's disingenuous:

...they are neglecting to look at the past history of Islam, and at the root of terrorism within the pages of the Qur’an and the related holy books that define and empower Islam. A root which has born bitter fruit throughout the history of Islamic conquest, and would have done the same in our day and age even if there were no Israel, and even if there were no American forces in Muslim lands.

Was the forced expulsion of the Jews and the Christians in AD 635 from the Arabian Peninsula - by the "Just" and so-called "Rightly Guided" Khalifa Umar Ibn Al Khattab - caused by the Israeli occupation of Palestine?

Was the continuous march of Islamic armies to conquer and occupy neighbouring lands, country after country between the 7th and 17th centuries - all the way to the gates of Vienna - caused by the USA’s invasion of Iraq?

Where was Israel at that time? Where was the United States?

Why do the Arabs and the Muslims overlook their own history and their own sacred writings when asked to find a ‘cause’ for terrorism? Especially in view of the established fact that their "holy Jihad" is found recorded in the Qur’an?

I don't know why they ignore those parts.

And frankly, I'm about to give up trying. Same with Evangelical Christians. You all know how you are, by now, and if you still don't, then you are beyond any sort of diplomatic, resolution-seeking outreach. All I can do is point it out, and then I'm accused of "bitching."

reply to post by wildtimes

are you
saying the Islamists are NOT wanting
to take over the whole world?

what do you mean by Islamists? Am i one? Do you even see the use of words that reeks of deeply embedded prejudices?
If i say secularists want to take over the world, would you agree to that language?

USA is trying to take over, Russian would like it too and China also wants it. Yes many groups, nations want to do that. Whats your point?

If you give your efforts to condemning acts proportional to the number of people that are being killed by a certain act. The "Islamists" would be very down on that list.

Much more people die due to greed of corporations and the drones and your country making people fight against each other but the "islamists" do remain the highest on your agenda. And I have tried to show you that the "terrorists" have got this far because your government nursed and raised and now funds them.
So address the root of the problem and not point at the fruits. Hack the roots and the fruits would disappear.

You do not have the right to point at muslims and criticize them. Its muslims who are dying so that your country and your government keeps afloat!!
The difference between muslims always existed but its sick to exploit them and if you know that your government is doing that then how can you have to face to make ignorant remarks about Islam and Qur'an?

Islam is what it is no amount of slandering and demonising changes what Islam actually teaches and you would be stupid to expect muslims to agree to your prejudices about Islam when they know better.

reply to post by wildtimes


how about you actually read Islamic history and Jewish history and find the Jews were actually protected by the muslim empires when christiandom was torturing them and muslims and jews lived together in palestine before the poisonous plant of israel was sown by the colonists. It was muslims who allowed jews to start visiting Jerusalem which was banned to them when christians ruled it.

I don't know what point you want to make by using anti-islamic excerpts but if you want to think that Islam and mulims are all bad then so be it. What you think of us does not bother us either way.