2 robbers shot by customer, shakes community

reply to post by IvanAstikov


your statement is ludicrous and reminds of the sienfeld episode "the innocent bystander".......the problem with our society is people minding their own business in these situation ...people need to stick together and help each other instead of relying on the long arm of the law to solve everything

Okay, so ATS members scream murder at police killing armed robbers. Just did a search and couldn't find anything. Maybe it's what I'm typing in I don't know.

reply to post by IvanAstikov

Having read the comments and the article the following can be stated:

It is time that the people started to deal with the problems in our society. The police are not doing the job, and here you have a person, who is trained, who saw an injustice and took action. 2 of the criminals were killed and a third is in custody and yet people fail to see the problem with either thinking that they were good kids or that the person who shot should have done nothing.

Let us ask Kitty Genovese about that action. For those who do not know about Kitty Genovese, here is a brief story of what happened. In 1964, a young woman, of 29 was stabbed to death in her own neighborhood, by Winston Moseley. Now Winston Moseley for all intent and purposes was a good man, a family man, married. From what all can be stated, he was a nice law abiding citizen. And his family would say he as a good boy, never got into trouble. Real nice guy, church going kind of person. But on the morning of March 13, 1964, he stalked Kitty Genovese and attacked her stabbing her multiple times. And while she was screaming for help, begging for someone to help, and come to her aid, to give her assistance, this monster brutally stabbed, raped, stole and killed her. And the sad part of this entire story, the one thing that sticks out in my mind, ever since I heard about this case, is that 12 people looked from their apartment windows and saw this brutal and vicious attack, and they did nothing. Not even calling the police. The attack happened around 2 am, the police were finally called and showed up close to 4 am, she died on the way to the hospital.

Now these 12 upstanding citizens did nothing, chose not to get involved and a young woman, died in the prime of her life. The monster is still in prison, alive and has been denied parole every time it comes up.

I hate to tell these parents, but if their child is out robbing a store with a gun, he is not such a good boy, now is he. And what many people do not understand is that if you pull a weapon, you do not shoot to wing, but to kill. The man who did the shooting, did what he was trained to do. Now if there is a problem with such, then first thing is that parents need to keep their children under control. Out robbing stores is not a sign of a good child. And if more people got involved in their communities and not turn a blind eye or live and let live, then maybe a lot more of the more brutal parts of society may not exist. I am sure that the parents of Derrion Albert would have been very grateful if someone had stepped in. Here again, you will see where people watched and did nothing, and now he is in the ground and the monsters who killed him, all of whom have family that will swear that they are good and just hung out with the wrong crowd are in jail.

IvanAstikov
reply to post by alienreality

 

Do you really believe he told them to stop before he had his gun drawn and pointing at them? Is that the job of members of the public, whatever their military experience? The mention of the robbers pulling out their own guns before being shot suggests that they weren't brandishing them before The Hero shouted "Stop!" at them, hence they were no threat to him if he'd just minded his own business.

The guy just exercised "Gun Control".

Which means being able to hit what you are aiming at.

That's "Gun Control" that I stand 100% behind.

Don't get me wrong...I am 100% in favor of what the civilian did ...If the criminals would not have made the choice to use guns to rob a store they would not have been shot and multiple families would not have been shattered.

My point in bringing up the ATS never blame the criminal element is their have been posts where a scenario similar to this, either with a gun, knife, insert some other deadly weapon were shot by the police and the statements were ,"why didn't they shoot them in the leg" or "the police, shoot first and ask later"

It really doesn't matter. These two made a horrible choice and chances are if they did it once they either did it previously or would do it again. This time their choices caught up to them and the world is a better place for it.

IvanAstikov
Nobody deserves to be shot for merely threatening to use violence. If the thieves have fled without using violence, it's not up to random passers-by to up the ante to a possible shoot out in a public place. Had any of his shots missed and hit a bystander, there'd be less dancing around and whoops of joy.

If someone pulls a gun (in this case two people pulled guns) how do you distinguish this as a mere "threat" to do violence versus "really about to do violence"? Is there some sort of secret code that distinguishes a threat from actual violence?

In terms of the conjectural "if the shots had missed and hit a bystander" that did not happen, did it? That it COULD have happened is irrelevant in this case. It didn't happen, so speculating that it could have happened is nonsensical. After all, "gun control" means the ability to hit your target.

This is just more treating the criminal as a victim nonsense.

schuyler
This is just more treating the criminal as a victim nonsense.

The "Left" always portrays the criminal in a light that suits their needs. Or the person who was rightfully within the law defending others as the criminal. It's just how the message is spun.

I'm sure that they could justify Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc, etc...

Deluded.

reply to post by opethPA


I have never seen an ATS member say anything negative about a cop shooting aa armed robber!

Its when an unarmed person is killed. Or a kid with a plastic gun, or when a cop beats the crap out of someone's grandma. Or when the cops rape your grandpa. (I hate it when they so that).

LoneGunMan
reply to post by opethPA

 

I have never seen an ATS member say anything negative about a cop shooting aa armed robber!

Its when an unarmed person is killed. Or a kid with a plastic gun, or when a cop beats the crap out of someone's grandma. Or when the cops rape your grandpa. (I hate it when they so that).

So you mean you didn't read the post about the senior citizen that shot at the police multiple times before they responded and how their was a big uproar by some here because a 77 year old shooting at you is somehow less dangerous then say a 37 year old.

Restricted
I don't care who shot them just as long as they were shot.

Cleaning up the gene pool one bullet at a time.

Couldn't agree more. Lose the loosers. If they were stealing food items, it might be somewhat forgivable, but that crap? Naaaahhh

opethPA

LoneGunMan
reply to post by opethPA

 

I have never seen an ATS member say anything negative about a cop shooting aa armed robber!

Its when an unarmed person is killed. Or a kid with a plastic gun, or when a cop beats the crap out of someone's grandma. Or when the cops rape your grandpa. (I hate it when they so that).

So you mean you didn't read the post about the senior citizen that shot at the police multiple times before they responded and how their was a big uproar by some here because a 77 year old shooting at you is somehow less dangerous then say a 37 year old.

The cops would rather kill kids.

reply to post by opethPA


interesting thread
not the incident wherein an individual defended himself from violence
[without any need for the police, probably gobbling donuts or tazering little girls elswhere]

but the deviant thought processes and mental contortions that twisted this event,
attempting to equate it to police brutality and state sanctioned murder so as to justify the latter.

Metaphysique
[without any need for the police, probably gobbling donuts or tazering little girls elswhere]
but the deviant thought processes and mental contortions that twisted this event,
attempting to equate it to police brutality and state sanctioned murder so as to justify the latter.

Not really but keep trying..

I brought up the Police are the only criminals element because I don't like hypocrisy and their are people here that would have gotten their panties in a bunch over the police killing these two criminals vs the citizen in the OP doing it..

First, some info on the dead robbers. They both had stolen handguns. Both had prior contact with police, the older one( 24 years old) was involved in beating up a 60 year old man with two friends when the older man yelled at him for speeding down his alley. The younger one was only 18. The getaway driver is 21.
Second, the shooter lived in apartments next to the store and witnessed the robbery in progress.
Should he have just let them go and not tried to stop them? He saw a crime in progress and tried to stop it. Had they obeyed him they'd be alive but they threatened him and he was forced to defend himself. The dead mens relatives want the shooter charged but that will likely go nowhere and they have little or no public support.
A similar incident occurred not too long ago in the same town where an elderly man with a LTC was attacked on his bike by a group of teens who tried to rob him. He shot one dead and seriously injured another. No charges were filed and he had almost unanimous public support.
Too bad they died but who's to blame? They are. Hopefully other people will think twice about being thugs and committing crimes.

I am often against the police if they are violent when therr is no risk IE shooting people when there is no weapon or the wepon has not been drawn.
I feel the same way about this civilian in fact it annoys me because it will be used as an example of why civilians shouldn't step up and stop a crime they are witnessing

reply to post by opethPA


Wow uou are way off the mark here. Not one person on ATS would rip on a cop for shooting to armed suspects who pulled guns.

That isn't shoot first ask questions later.

I don't even undrrstand your thinking on this.

GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by opethPA

 

Wow uou are way off the mark here. Not one person on ATS would rip on a cop for shooting to armed suspects who pulled guns.

That isn't shoot first ask questions later.

I don't even undrrstand your thinking on this.

Except their have been posts where people have rip cops for returning fire when shot at first.
I posted the OP because it falls inline with my belief that people are accountable for their own actions.
I made the reference to wondering if their would be hypocrisy by a specific element here who refuse to blame criminals for their own actions.

LoneGunMan
reply to post by opethPA

 

I have never seen an ATS member say anything negative about a cop shooting aa armed robber!

Its when an unarmed person is killed. Or a kid with a plastic gun, or when a cop beats the crap out of someone's grandma. Or when the cops rape your grandpa. (I hate it when they so that).

This exactly. I don't like cops, but I don't see how a comparison to this case even exists. I actually have more problems with this man shooting the criminals, I don't praise him for shooting the criminals. He didnt need to intervene. Its a cops job to stop robbers.

So in this case I would never say something negative had it been a cop. It would have been justified. For a citizen I could see him getting charged but I'd hope he wasn't convicted.

reply to post by opethPA


I've never seen one and I post in almost every cop thread.

You obviously defend cops and are trying to make a defensive case that just isn't there. Its actually such a b.s. move its offensive and actually seems like cop logic. The same confusing dumb logic we see from cops. Are you a cop?

GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by opethPA

 

I've never seen one and I post in almost every cop thread.

You obviously defend cops and are trying to make a defensive case that just isn't there. Its actually such a b.s. move its offensive and actually seems like cop logic. The same sneaky logic we see from cops. Are you a cop?

I obviously don't defend cops but I also don't say that because their are bad cops all cops are bad like some do here.

What I defend is trying to be logical about cases with the information I can get access to.

When the police returned fire on the 77 year old man that fired on them I said that is a tough spot but it's understandable.

When the police in New Mexico did what they just did with the body cavity search i said that is horrible and I hope the victim gets some measure of peace.

As to your last question, I have nothing to do with Law enforcement .