Art hoarder's whereabouts unknown after German officials make estimated $1B discovery

Im Glad this thread has slowly decended into madness...

So Boncho... i agree, it would be nice to understand the motives of a man not selling all the art but holding it, to me the logical reasons were either -

Shame, he did not want to live a life being assosiated with anything to do with the Nazi's and he made a point of not allowing his fathers past haunt his life (as best as he could)

(tinfoil hat time) maybe as someone else said, sitting on the paitings, a secret Nazi to this day waiting to fund the fourth Reich (this seems less likley due to his words to the police)


Whitealice - Why dont you just find out where you Grandfather was stationed across all of the second world war, then look for large destroyed mannor houses in the areas, will at least reduce your search area, furthermore if you check his records, for him to have taken what i can only imagine to be a large and heavy (due to the gold frame) painting either someone knew he shipped it back or possibly there are people left from his platoon still alive who would know where it was taken from and in theory may even have helped him do it.....

This is not about money or property. He was not trying to fund anything. He was a secret keeper.

In a time where you could and would be killed for writing or speaking things, there were artists. A painting, a song, any piece of art was/is an expression of what the artists knows. A story being told.

The one thing Hitler wanted was answers. There were mysteries he was trying to solve.

Those artists were not just painters, they were highly intelligent men who learned from other highly intelligent men. Secret societies who told their stories through art. Just like the old Bards would travel about and tell their tales all rooted in truth, so people wouldn't forget. What happens when the story stops being told? People forget. Those paintings are not just pretty objects. They are priceless for a reason. They were/are wanted for a reason. It's for the stories and secrets they tell.

Truth. History. Secrets. They are worth more than any coin.

reply to post by GonzoSinister


We actually did try to obtain the service records of my grandfather and received virtually nothing. He was moved into the 509th composite bomb group in 1944 (atomic) of the same year that he was in France. His records are extraordinarily lacking due to these facts. The only place that we know of him being stationed at while in Europe is Polebrook in the UK, which is not helpful. What we received after FOIA requests was basically the history of his promotions and awards. That's it. Unfortunately, his military career made what should've been easy impossible. Great idea though.

reply to post by boncho


I love Marc Chagall, and he was Jewish.
That's interesting that the Nazis did not destroy Chagall, but kept it.

WhiteAlice
reply to post by GonzoSinister

 

We actually did try to obtain the service records of my grandfather and received virtually nothing. He was moved into the 509th composite bomb group in 1944 (atomic) of the same year that he was in France. His records are extraordinarily lacking due to these facts. The only place that we know of him being stationed at while in Europe is Polebrook in the UK, which is not helpful. What we received after FOIA requests was basically the history of his promotions and awards. That's it. Unfortunately, his military career made what should've been easy impossible. Great idea though.

The National Archives should have them. I found my grandfather's service record there. It did show us the POW camp in the Philippines where he was held.

From the National Archives, I learned my grandfather was in the 201st Coast Artillery Corp first stationed on Corrigedor Island. He was liberated from Fukishima Pine Camp number 1.

WarminIndy
The National Archives should have them. I found my grandfather's service record there. It did show us the POW camp in the Philippines where he was held.

From the National Archives, I learned my grandfather was in the 201st Coast Artillery Corp first stationed on Corrigedor Island. He was liberated from Fukishima Pine Camp number 1.

It doesn't have it. My mother attempted that one as well. We've tried every possible avenue to find out just what he did for the military to zero avail, not just for this but for other pressing familial issues. I don't know if the loss of his 1944 record, which should reasonably not be classified, was due to his record being transferred from the US Army Air to the newly formed USAF in 1948. As it is, he's a virtual ghost according to the archives and the DoD up until 1958. All that we do know is that his security clearance was TS and then, TS/SCI for the entirety of his career. This is yet another major source of frustration for my family pertaining the man.

reply to post by boncho


Update story today in USA Today German collector hid art out of 'love'
What we do for love?

Occasionally he sold pictures for cash, the magazine reported. The last time was in 2011, when he sold Max Beckmann's painting "The Lion Tamer" for 725,000 euros. Gurlitt kept a little over 400,000 euros, with the rest going to a Jewish collector who once owned it, according to the magazine.

He sent money to original owners? Does that admit his guilt?

They don't know how to settle it?

Discussion here was pretty much open and closed guilty, but we shall see?

donlashway
reply to post by boncho

 

Update story today in USA Today German collector hid art out of 'love'
What we do for love?

Occasionally he sold pictures for cash, the magazine reported. The last time was in 2011, when he sold Max Beckmann's painting "The Lion Tamer" for 725,000 euros. Gurlitt kept a little over 400,000 euros, with the rest going to a Jewish collector who once owned it, according to the magazine.

He sent money to original owners? Does that admit his guilt?

They don't know how to settle it?

Discussion here was pretty much open and closed guilty, but we shall see?

I never said the son was out and out guilty. If anything, it sounds like he is suffering some mental illness. Interesting that he sent money to one of the original owners.

I have to say the father seemed very suspect to me, but now it says he was also a Jew, and under scrutiny of the Nazis.

Interesting to note, that the son claims the advancing Russians had something to do with why the art was hoarded. Whether or not true, goes against some other opinions in the thread.

Cheers. Thanks for the update.