Sun's Setting Too Early--It's way the ... over THERE!!

This is patently absrud. THe sun can't set at the 'wrong' time in a few places and the 'right time' at other places. Its either off all over or spot on all over. You see, the earth is round, and moving thru space. The sun, its also round, and the earth moves around it. See?

Hey Emily, while i really dont understand your "2" suns sighting or theory i do like to keep an eye on the Sun now and again to see what its up to.

Recently there has been a fair amount of activity from CME's and solar flares, a CME hit earth on the 7th and 8th, which caused an intense band of auroras descending over the United States after a coronal mass ejection hit Earth's magnetic field.

And we are currently going to "glide" through a solar wind stream on Nov. 19th or 20th, possibly sparking a geomagnetic storm at high latitudes.

So for those of you who live in Alaska and Canada watch out for these Auroras.

And surely enough the sun is setting early, i do not understand what you mean i thought everyone in the world realised the sun sets early in winter especially taking into account the daylight saving changes.

Not at all true. Look at a spinning top. When it begins wobbling, everything doesn't wobble at once until it destabilizes completely.

At the regular cam-sites I go to, I notice the sun is setting much too early nearly everywhere for this time of year--about forty-five minutes to an hour earlier than I ever remember.

It also switched from setting in the northwest to setting in the southwest in a matter of a few weeks.

That's ODD.

Originally posted by Emily_Cragg
I notice the sun is setting much too early nearly everywhere for this time of year--about forty-five minutes to an hour earlier than I ever remember.

Are you taking Daylight Saving Time into account?

Originally posted by Emily_Cragg
In February 2001 a huge comet came by here--enormous. And it dragged in an enormous cloud of debris that it placed in orbit over our heads.

So how it is possible there wasn't any visible comet at that time in the sky?


If you would tell me your place's coordinates I could check couple programs what they show for rising and setting times of sun.

And actually atmosphere (normally) refracts light enough that when you see sun touching horizon it has already set.

Originally posted by kinglizard

Originally posted by Emily_Cragg
I notice the sun is setting much too early nearly everywhere for this time of year--about forty-five minutes to an hour earlier than I ever remember.

Are you taking Daylight Saving Time into account?

Yeah, webcams of scientific observatories use UTC (previously GMT) which doesn't know such thing.

Currently my time is now UTC+2 hours when in summer it's UTC+3 hours.
BTW, If you're interested, at this time of year twilight starts little before 3 pm here... and it's pretty much dark about 4pm.

FYI, Comet Neat was all over the news when it got here; and just like Halley's and Hale Bopp, it was photographed widely.

No wonder the sun sets early where you are--in Finland near the Arctic Circle you are.

I bet you have to utilize "full spectrum" lighting, just to get through the winters, eh?

Originally posted by Simulacra

Originally posted by Nerdling
*rolls eyes*
Theres nothing wrong with the sun just as there was nothing wrong with it every other time you've called it.
Please, enough.

You know, I planned to post a relatively long statement trying to debunk your celestial conspiracies (as I always do in your threads), but I think Nerdling took the words right out of my mouth.

I apologise for preempting your cosmic bitchslap.

Originally posted by Emily_Cragg
FYI, Comet Neat was all over the news when it got here; and just like Halley's and Hale Bopp, it was photographed widely.

Actually there haven't been any really bright (or big) comet after Hale-Bob.
I think this one shows very well how bright it was, like you can see this is taken in city on winter when snowcover reflects nearly all light of streetlights back to the sky.

No wonder the sun sets early where you are--in Finland near the Arctic Circle you are.

Well, Finland lies only as north as Alaska... above 60N.
My coordinate is about 61� 30' N, Northest Finland is around 70N, only few days and sun doesn't anymore rise there, in summers it's same, that time sun just stays above horizon.
I made trip to Northern Finland (Lapland) and to North Cape in August when there wasn't any night in those places. ("night" was just like cloudy day)

This shows well how "high" above horizon sun rises here on winter:


Actually from now on day is again "little more longer" because ground froze two days ago and there's now little snow.

BTW, here's what Skymap shows:
Events for keskiviikko 17 marras 2004
Time Event
08:16 Sun rises
15:17 Sun sets
Today there was some clouds so actually it started to darken about half hour before this sunset time.


But now back to topic:
Here's great images what atmospheric refraction and distortion can do to look of sun. (distortions and sequences pages)
www.polarimage.fi...

No matter how many times I look, I just don't seem to be able to find two suns up there..............am I missing something, or should I just change my medication?

Go to www.fourmilab.ch... to get Home Planet, a nifty piece of freebie code written by John Walker, the founder of Autodesk. Not sure where he loaded his data from but the code will show you where the sun should be based on your lat/lon and will return a picture of the sky in a graphic with NSEW headings....

You can also load up the current satellite data and see when and where all those NRO birds are!!

Ok guys just do this you'll be like what the hell?

Alright take a piece of paper, draw the earth (just a circle) draw the sun in the middle (just another circle). Place a dot on the outside of the earth facing towards the sun(representing where you stand)

You know it takes 24 hours for the earth to go around in a full rotation (one day) well....as the year goes by our earth circles the sun. Keep circling your position around the sun and by the time you get to 90 degrees from where you started your position will no longer be directed towards the sun!

This means....it actually takes more than 365 days for the earth to make COMPLETE 'referenced' days facing the sun. I think this is where your sun setting too early is coming from.

Originally posted by Emily_Cragg
At the regular cam-sites I go to, I notice the sun is setting much too early nearly everywhere for this time of year--about forty-five minutes to an hour earlier than I ever remember.

I noticed that the sun is sorta setting more southwest then normal maybe about 15 degrees more SW
I also noticed that Venus is huge and low in the east morning sky around 4 am. Very bright. I think it's Venus anyhow.

Do you have some links for these webcam sites with the sunsets?

Originally posted by Aether
Alright take a piece of paper, draw the earth (just a circle) draw the sun in the middle (just another circle). Place a dot on the outside of the earth facing towards the sun(representing where you stand)

You know it takes 24 hours for the earth to go around in a full rotation (one day) well....as the year goes by our earth circles the sun. Keep circling your position around the sun and by the time you get to 90 degrees from where you started your position will no longer be directed towards the sun!

This means....it actually takes more than 365 days for the earth to make COMPLETE 'referenced' days facing the sun. I think this is where your sun setting too early is coming from.

Otherwise good but time we use in normal use is synchronized to position of sun in the sky.

You're talking about sidereal time.

Sidereal time
All astronomical objects pass across the sky through the meridian like the Sun due to the Earth's rotation. However, the Earth in addition to rotation around its axis, also revolves around the Sun. During the course of a year, due to its orbit, the Earth makes one additional rotation around the Sun. Hence relative to the stars, there is one extra rotation per year, and this amounts to a difference in the position of the stars in the sky by about four minutes of time, when viewed at the same time on two successive days.

Thus, relative to the stars, the Earth's rotation period is about 23 hours and 56 minutes (more accurately 23 hours, 56 minutes and 4.09 seconds), or 4 minutes less than 24 hours. This time period is called a sidereal day and clocks running at this rate indicate the sidereal time.

curious.astro.cornell.edu...

Originally posted by evecasino
I also noticed that Venus is huge and low in the east morning sky around 4 am. Very bright. I think it's Venus anyhow.

That's right, it's currently on morning sky. (near Spica)
Also Jupiter and Mars are near it.

today I'd was stumble by that same fact it was 4:30pm and it was pitch black it was night already, I found it odd but not seeing this post, I definite belive something is totaly wrong here.

You know, every year about this time, someone makes the same claim.

And every year, someone else, who is a little challenged in the common sense department, falls for it.

OMG, the power of suggestion. All you need is a nice cloud cover after a few sunny days, and folks think the worst.

What next? How about things in the night sky that shouldn't be there:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

PROBABLY--the reason for the Shadow Government and the underground enclaves is that, all that stuff has gotta go somewhere, and it's just as likely to "come down here" as anything . . . it's just a matter of time until that space junk falls on us. And some of it is quite large.

You've got some good ideas, and that's pretty close to what my evidence shows, but I think it's a little off.

From what I've been able to gather, both through personal study and stuff skimmed from work (I work in the IT department of an experimental hydroponics lab here in the midwest) it's a little more complicated than that.

Basically, the outline of what I can see is as follows:

The sun is "wobbling", or at least appears to be. This is because it's getting ready to slough off it's outer layer. When it does this, it'll expand in size a bit. My calculations have it "eating" Mercury but stabilizing after that. When it does this a couple things will happen.

First, it'll knock the other planets out of alignment a bit. Venus will move back about .023 AU from where it currently is. Unfortunately, everything I've seen points to the Earth's reaction being a bit more drastic. Because of the unique relationship between the Earth and the Moon, our planet will be completely pushed out of its orbit. There's a slight chance that it'll be caught in orbit around Jupiter if it survives the trip through the asteroid belt, but that's not real useful if you want to live here.

It's not as bad as it seems, though, because a couple things are working in our favor. First of all, the orbital changes in Venus will mean that it'll be perfect for Human habitation (with some help) relatively soon, however "relatively soon" works out to a few thousand years. In the meantime, everything I've seen points to a human colony on Mars. That's how I'm involved, the lab is trying to figure out which staples grow well in low-gravity, and how nutritional value is affected. I don't understand most of the science (computer-geek, not botany-geek), but it's pretty cool to watch. From what I can tell, that's also why the US is putting so much pressure behind GM food right now, we'll need to make some changes for everything to grow.

Mars really isn't as dead as NASA wants us to believe, there's actually some life present there. It's pretty basic stuff: advanced algeas and some primitive fern-like things, plus the basic lichens and fungi, but it's more than NASA lets on. That's why the red filters on the mars rovers were used, they help keep this secret. Also the "lost" probes? This is actually something that we suggested. The one that "crashed" into the polar ice was supposed to do that. If everything works correctly, it'll produce enough local heat to put a bit more moisture in the atmosphere there, and hopefully warm things up a bit. If everything goes according to plan (at least according to the documents I've stolen a glance at at work), that coupled with the larger sun, will make Mars habitable for us. Not too pleasant, but habitable. Think something like the Arizona deserts at Denver, Colorado's elevation. It'll hold us for the time required to get Venus ready.

This is being kept under wraps for two reasons. The "public" one is to keep panic from happening. There's no way we'd be able to move 6 or 7 billion people to Mars, so there's going to be a drastic reduction in the population when the sloughing happens, which is also why we're not worried about overpopulation anymore, it's pretty much a moot point. Second, the migration will only be for the "elite." They're saying it'll be the "best of the best" and implying that the families of the brightest scientists, techs, and stuff will be included. Personally I think that it'll just be politicos and their cronies that go, but...well, it doesn't mean that I won't be working hard just in case. The sloughing should happen in 50-90 years, so it won't be a personal matter to me, but I've still got children to think of.

Watch for information from Mars to become rarer and rarer as the humidity changes become harder and harder to hide. Also, try to get into the biotech, or high-technology industries if you want your family to have a chance of going.

Now I have a question. The head of the labs here keeps referring to the help he's gotten from "our friends at Talos." Is that a government lab that anyone's heard of?



[edit on 11/20/2004 by Whiskey Jack]

Originally posted by Whiskey Jack
Now I have a question. The head of the labs here keeps referring to the help he's gotten from "our friends at Talos." Is that a government lab that anyone's heard of?

So you get to glance at all this secret material that no one wants the normal person to know of yet you say that the lab heads keep shouting out about Talos. Hmmmm....

When I read Whiskey Jack and Emily Cragg, I reflect on the public schools of the United States.