Edward Snowden Releases “A Manifesto For The Truth”

reply to post by XionZap


Your "points" have no context if I haven't read the source material. If there is a summary of a vaccine study, natural news says, "99% of people who took this vaccine died", when in reality it says,

"99% of people who took the vaccine after the viral symptoms appeared, and after reasonable time for treatment was available, the morbidity rate increased too 100%, in conclusion, the vaccine must be administered before viral load reaches _X_ for it to be effective."

I don't get why you are so touchy on a bit of editorial that is speaking about the source material. It is not more important than the source, they are speaking about the source.

I merely was trying to point out I was bummed I didn't get to read Snowden's actual words…

It's as if you are trying to argue now the editorial is the source of the story and not what Snowden said.

XionZap
A word of advice for all of you who bear such an animosity for Edward Snowden -

As a worthy comparison - Please read up on the sacrifices made by other American heros - The most appropriate example of which would be Nathan Hale who was a soldier for the Continental Army during the American Revolutionary War. He volunteered for an intelligence-gathering mission in New York City but was captured by the British and hanged. He is probably best remembered for his purported last words before being hanged: "I only regret that I have but one life to give for my country." Hale has long been considered an American hero and, in 1985, he was officially designated the state hero of Connecticut.

edit on 4-11-2013 by XionZap because: (no reason given)

The difference being this person was hanged by a tyrannical government and Snowden went to the Mother(land) of all human rights problems.

It is hard to argue the man a martyr when he went to Russia. You will have a hell of a time arguing that point. Russia killed a dissenter in UK by injecting them with radioactive isotopes, what, just a few year ago?

Please Vladamir, I know you stand for truth and justice, help me!

reply to post by boncho


The thread is what is is and your endless bickering is not going to change anything. It only serves to disturb the continuity of the thread - Is that your intention? If so please refrain. Thank you.

A Manifesto for the Truth
by Edward Snowden, November 04, 2013

reply to post by boncho


As I pointed out at the end of my post (and you failed to quote) - Snowden would also have been hanged by a tyrannical government but he chose LIBERTY OVER DEATH (remember Patrick Henry) so as to get the word out to the rest of the world.

As for your comment --->- "Please Vladamir, I know you stand for truth and justice, help me!"

Have you read the Forbes poll -that puts Putin ahead of BHO as a leader of the FREE WORLD? HA HA

A Manifesto for the Truth
by Edward Snowden, November 04, 2013

reply to post by XionZap

"...his whistleblowing revelations have done more to shift the narrative to the topic of dwindling individual liberties abused pervasively in the US and elsewhere"

'Bout time. What are they "protecting" if not our freedom?

...I wonder.

We have been programmed to hate narcs,snitches and tattle tales.I am no different. His info appears to be really a nasty portrait of lies we ALL knew but couldn't confirm.How ironic it came from Russia,I measure it like this I suppose: The Walker spy case was evil done for money ,this guy screwed up his life to protect people as HE saw it,I just can't figure out when the intel pukes got so sloppy about things. How can I tell this isn't a psyop that was allowed to happen?
I have ALOT of trouble trusting spooks on things like this. Too much money and too many people are involved but with the current regime,I guess if what we know is indeed accurate,I would move on it too.

JayinAR

boncho
I'd like to read it and all, but "der spiegel" is trying to der spiegel 10MB of storage on my disk drive. And since the chancellor went to scold the US for spying on her, and came back saying, "OMG so happy they tapped my phone they was protecting us" I am not going to trust anything coming out of Germany.

You know why this is right (that the Chancellor flipped)?

Because the NSA has dirt on her...and everyone else.
The NSA basically became the most powerful organization in the world once this program got up and running. With all political types being spied upon they can blackmail anyone they like. Influencing any political action they desire.
Its scary and I can't understand the thought process of the post below yours in light of this information

Similar to the way the NSA creates power, Washington DC operates in the same way.

NSA has power now because of all the dirt it has on everyone (in power, or in significant political positions). This power is equal to it's illegality. It's basically the electronic mafia.

I think DC works along those same lines. It's a political mafia. It's like a huge ball of blackmail. Most everyone has skeletons in their closet, especially at the highest levels. Proper vetting rarely happens, and if it does, the dirt doesn't come out until years after its relevance.

Evil has risen to the top.

reply to post by XionZap


I'm not very biblical but considering how bad life has gotten over for the average Joe/Jane over the past decade and the ramping up of the abuse since BO took office (not calling him the antichrist but many others have ) in fact for the past 30 years every man in that office has been called the antichrist by one group or another.

Plus the ramping up of the police state brutality and invasive opression of the masses the taxing of the working to poverty etc etc etc.

Now I'm not calling this the end times but we do seem to have the polar opposites in very visible places.
I never did drink the Kool aid with BO and I do respect somone who will risk everything to speak out and expose the truth in an empire led by liars.

IMHO everything about Edward Snowden hearkens back to the patriotic actions of the hero's of the American Revolution, and since authoring this thread I have referenced several patriots from the American Revolution as comparisons to - not just the bravery and sacrifice of Edward Snowden - but for his intellectual fervor in the defense of Liberty as well. Through that I am coming to realize more fully the situation in which we now find ourselves as reflective of said "Revolution" - these are indeed the "times that try mens souls." America is at the brink of "Revolution!"! How do I know this? Well, for one, Edward Snowden has managed to bring it to my attention - as in "front and center."

BUT - It has been my gut feeling all along that somewhere within the process of his intellectual refinement - while subjected to his "Russian captivity"

Where's the manifesto? Maybe change the title of this post?

finitedualities
Where's the manifesto? Maybe change the title of this post?

Since you asked AND for the sake of clarity and continuity of subject I will succumb to the wishes of interested members -

A Manifesto for the Truth
by Edward Snowden, November 04, 2013
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This article by Edward Snowden was published Sunday in Der Spiegel.

In a very short time, the world has learned much about unaccountable secret agencies and about sometimes illegal surveillance programs. Sometimes the agencies even deliberately try to hide their surveillance of high officials or the public. While the NSA and GCHQ seem to be the worst offenders – this is what the currently available documents suggest – we must not forget that mass surveillance is a global problem in need of global solutions.

Such programs are not only a threat to privacy, they also threaten freedom of speech and open societies. The existence of spy technology should not determine policy. We have a moral duty to ensure that our laws and values limit monitoring programs and protect human rights.

Society can only understand and control these problems through an open, respectful and informed debate. At first, some governments feeling embarrassed by the revelations of mass surveillance initiated an unprecedented campaign of persecution to supress this debate. They intimidated journalists and criminalized publishing the truth. At this point, the public was not yet able to evaluate the benefits of the revelations. They relied on their governments to decide correctly.

Today we know that this was a mistake and that such action does not serve the public interest. The debate which they wanted to prevent will now take place in countries around the world. And instead of doing harm, the societal benefits of this new public knowledge is now clear, since reforms are now proposed in the form of increased oversight and new legislation.

Citizens have to fight suppression of information on matters of vital public importance. To tell the truth is not a crime.

Translated by Martin Eriksson. This text was written by Edward Snowden on November 1, 2013 in Moscow. It was sent to SPIEGEL staff over an encrypted channel.

A Manifesto for the Truth
by Edward Snowden, November 04, 2013

I used to think that it was some special aspect of the times in which they lived that created people who would point a finger at their fellow villagers and shout 'Witch!' or 'Jew', or any number of other epithets that would quickly summon people with handcuffs or guns or worse...

Now I see that these dangers are still with us; citizens only too happy to demonize people who speak the truth, or know more than they, or are of a different religion; really any reason is sufficient in their small minds.

Thank you to some of the recurrent posters on this thread for showing me your true colors. Now, where's that 'IGNORE' button??

XionZap
reply to post by boncho

 

The thread is what is is and your endless bickering is not going to change anything. It only serves to disturb the continuity of the thread - Is that your intention? If so please refrain. Thank you.

A Manifesto for the Truth
by Edward Snowden, November 04, 2013

edit on 4-11-2013 by XionZap because: (no reason given)

Replying to me simply to say it disturbs the continuity disturbs the continuity. My posts were addressing the actual sourced material.

XionZap
reply to post by boncho

 

As I pointed out at the end of my post (and you failed to quote) - Snowden would also have been hanged by a tyrannical government but he chose LIBERTY OVER DEATH (remember Patrick Henry) so as to get the word out to the rest of the world.

As for your comment --->- "Please Vladamir, I know you stand for truth and justice, help me!"

Have you read the Forbes poll -that puts Putin ahead of BHO as a leader of the FREE WORLD? HA HA

A Manifesto for the Truth
by Edward Snowden, November 04, 2013

edit on 4-11-2013 by XionZap because: (no reason given)

Yes but he wasn't hanged by a tyrannical government, he went into the hands of one and is doing fine, under their protection. You don't see the issues with that?

There is always the possibility that he is a plant as well.

I know it's a little far fetched, but Russia knew about the spying program before Snowden came over… 2 years ago a Canadain Navy Intelligence officer was caught selling secrets about the five eyes program, he was sentenced to 20 years in prison.

(A sentence in Canada that usually only comes with murder.)

So, it is very likely Russia had all the intel already. Which means, (must enable… spy novel… powers… ) It is quite possible, the states didn't want Russia to disseminate the information or (possibly worse) use it as blackmail or power over allied states by dangling in front of whomever they wanted whenever they so chose, which means… *long breath

Snowden was merely a plant, someone who was allowed to take the information, play out the whole enactment, and bring it to public light while the US does damage control, in the face of the media and behind the scenes.

Whatever they are doing sure worked on the chancellor!

After reading Snowden's letter (thank you for finally linking btw, I had trouble finding it)

While the NSA and GCHQ seem to be the worst offenders – this is what the currently available documents suggest – we must not forget that mass surveillance is a global problem in need of global solutions.

I find this sentence to be of interest. A global solution you say?

reply to post by boncho

I'd like to read it and all, but "der spiegel" is trying to der spiegel 10MB of storage on my disk drive.

That line sent my coffee all over my keyboard.



I'm still laughing...

JayinAR

boncho
I'd like to read it and all, but "der spiegel" is trying to der spiegel 10MB of storage on my disk drive. And since the chancellor went to scold the US for spying on her, and came back saying, "OMG so happy they tapped my phone they was protecting us" I am not going to trust anything coming out of Germany.

You know why this is right (that the Chancellor flipped)?

Because the NSA has dirt on her...and everyone else.
The NSA basically became the most powerful organization in the world once this program got up and running. With all political types being spied upon they can blackmail anyone they like. Influencing any political action they desire.
Its scary and I can't understand the thought process of the post below yours in light of this information

You are 100% right and though I've stated as such to friends and relatives, it still seems common sense is lost in todays
world! Most people fail to gain the connection even after all is stated! I will never understand how these people will
allow fear to keep them from attaining some common sense perspective! Between apathy and cognitive dissonance, will we ever have a chance at eliminating the corrupt policies of the evil empire which has for so long been manipulating us all? I doubt any of us can really answer this honestly! I wonder if we will ever have the integrity, bravery and patriotism our forefathers had or will we continue to live our lives between insecurity and
delusion?

Fragment quote because I find this comment to be of some considerable interest -:

nosacrificenofreedom I wonder if we will ever have the integrity, bravery and patriotism our forefathers had or will we continue to live our lives between insecurity and
delusion?

Mainly because my previous comments point us to this very issue with respect to the patriotism of Mr Edward Snowden who I see a model of political integrity for the coming generation. You asked the very important question, and rightfully so: "will ever have the integrity, bravery and patriotism our forefathers had or will we continue to live our lives between insecurity and delusion? "

Snowden speaks to the very same issue(s) that you are concerned about here, and its my belief (conclusion actually) that Mr. Snowden is leading the way towards - not a new - but an old concept of freedom in the United States of America by means of "Revolution." Otherwise - what other conclusions might one draw from his heroic actions on behalf of not just America, but of the entire world - on behalf of freedom and liberty for us all - and there is a distinction between "freedom and liberty."

More than any other - Edward Snowden presents us with a sign of 'Hope and Change' in the very real sense that those terms imply - not in the bizarre ans distorted Obamian sense that is indicative of deception and fraud perpetrated upon the American people.

Neocon Max Boot Hates Edward Snowden -
Kurt Nimmo Infowars.com November 4, 2013

In the interest of a 'fair and balanced' (where have we heard that phrase before?) presentation of opposing points of view let's have a look at this article, that I'm sure several here will look upon as 'redemptive journalism'

reply to post by XionZap


I looked more into Snowden's backstory. It fits with someone who has idealogical views, even if he was a little unsure about his positions earlier on. People change over time, become disillusioned, evolve, grow, etc. The article on him is pretty shoddy, the best comment being:

Old IRC logs? What's the next article going to be, Snowden's Youtube history, perhaps with a header image of him wearing a Scumbag Steve hat?

Chat logs with Snowden

Q&A with Snowden.

Former forum talking about him.

While he seems to be able to back his claims of only disseminating illegal or objectionable materials, and not direct national security threats. (Public (>) vs. security), I still think him serving himself up on a platter might have been a better gesture of good faith. But at the same time, I see his point about getting arrested. As a swift conviction would have burned the image of criminality in the public mind.

Although, I am not sure I can come to terms with his stay in Russia, no matter his ideology.

Sestias
I generally take a left-of-center stance on things political, but this is one instance when I stand with the government.

The secret affairs of free nations need to be kept secret, in most instances. There is no reason why China should know about our internal classified information.

There are times when phone taps are truly necessary; for instance in the Boston Marathon bomber case. If somebody tapped my line, I wouldn't be upset. They would soon perish from boredom and give it up.

If we could only hear the Boston phone taps during the Boston Marathon...hmmm. I would imagine you would hear a scenario that had been carefully planned with pressure cooker bombs and government agents targeting patriots and militiamen as terrorists etc.