Turkey scrambles jets to intercept Russian warplanes

BobM88
reply to post by Zaphod58

 

They're just havin' a little fun.

Seriously, that's interesting, that they've ramped it back up to that stage. I guess the CIS must be ready to resume the role that Russia had at the time of the fall of the Soviet Union, the counter-balance to America. What do you think, Zaphod58?

They have bigger plans then that actually.
The Eurasian Union. It will formerly be established in 2015 as currently planned. So far it consists of Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan. Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan and Armenia are the next candidates to join.
The three have a customs union already in place, which will transform into the Eurasian Union in 2015.
There's even a Eurasian Economic Community.
Have you heard of the Collective Security Treaty Organisation? It consists of all of the above countries + the CIS.

I put my money on the Eurasian Union having a military/foreign policy before the European Union does. All under Russian hegemony.


And guess what, the USA is dead against the Eurasian Union.

intrepid

GrantedBail
Turkey is a NATO member.

That is the only reason Turkey didn't kick Israel's ass this year. So now can we leave Israel out of this?

Actually no, the only reason Turkey didn't kick Israel's ass last year, besides the fact that it can't actually kick Israel's ass and would end up with it's own ass kicked(even in an exclusive bout between the two of them) is because the whole break up between them is being played out according to Washington's script for the Middle East region. The script didn't say it was time for Turkey to attack Israel. Maybe in the future though..
But it will be Turkey getting it's ass kicked from multiple directions.

Zaphod58

Wrabbit2000
Second, they have cracked and bypassed the IFF safeguards to be able to engage Israeli fighters, despite the system having been hard coded to prevent allies from locking onto each other. Turkey has sworn they won't share that with other regional powers who also use the F-16.

This is a common misconception that is false. There is no safeguard to prevent locking onto another aircraft. IFF can change on an hourly basis, so they would have to have every possible IFF code encoded into the system. An IFF code is usually four digits long, which means they would have to have a god awful number of codes stored, or take the planes out of service every day to reencode them.

Blue on Blue isn't as common with aircraft, but it does happen. During Desert Storm an F-4 fired a Sidewinder that blew part of a B-52 tail off. Fortunately everyone was ok, and the bomber landed safely.

The Turks have developed their own software/systems, and the regular IFF stuff that applies to Israeli, American, Greek, Dutch F16's and till recently Turkish F16's no longer applies for the Turkish F16's.
I'm not sure on all the technical details, but from what I've heard/read, their birds no longer see the Israeli counterparts as "blues".
I don't know if all their jets have been 'upgraded' yet or not. But it will be interesting to know if they will include this stuff on the upgrade of their older F16's(CCIP?)

iBallinU
The Turks have developed their own software/systems, and the regular IFF stuff that applies to Israeli, American, Greek, Dutch F16's and till recently Turkish F16's no longer applies for the Turkish F16's.
I'm not sure on all the technical details, but from what I've heard/read, their birds no longer see the Israeli counterparts as "blues".
I don't know if all their jets have been 'upgraded' yet or not. But it will be interesting to know if they will include this stuff on the upgrade of their older F16's(CCIP?)

No F-16 sees any F-16 that doesn't have the right IFF code as "blue". There is no way to lock an IFF system so that it won't shoot at another aircraft. IFF doesn't tell you "That's an F-16", it tells you whether the other aircraft has the right code. That's all it does. There is no "lock out code" for IFF, or the US wouldn't have been able to shoot at its own planes on accident during training, which has happened a number of times.

Zaphod58

iBallinU
The Turks have developed their own software/systems, and the regular IFF stuff that applies to Israeli, American, Greek, Dutch F16's and till recently Turkish F16's no longer applies for the Turkish F16's.
I'm not sure on all the technical details, but from what I've heard/read, their birds no longer see the Israeli counterparts as "blues".
I don't know if all their jets have been 'upgraded' yet or not. But it will be interesting to know if they will include this stuff on the upgrade of their older F16's(CCIP?)

No F-16 sees any F-16 that doesn't have the right IFF code as "blue". There is no way to lock an IFF system so that it won't shoot at another aircraft. IFF doesn't tell you "That's an F-16", it tells you whether the other aircraft has the right code. That's all it does. There is no "lock out code" for IFF, or the US wouldn't have been able to shoot at its own planes on accident during training, which has happened a number of times.

Yeh well the Turks have developed their own...

theaviationist.com...
www.todayszaman.com...

reply to post by iBallinU


Did you miss the part where a pilot said it's not connected to the weapon system, and doesn't affect the missiles? You can't program an IFF to automatically identify something as friendly and prevent firing on it. Do you honestly think the US would have accidentally fired on their own aircraft if they could?

Zaphod58
reply to post by iBallinU

 

Did you miss the part where a pilot said it's not connected to the weapon system, and doesn't affect the missiles? You can't program an IFF to automatically identify something as friendly and prevent firing on it. Do you honestly think the US would have accidentally fired on their own aircraft if they could?

Did you miss the part where I made no mention of that?

reply to post by iBallinU


You didn't have to. But if it's not connected to the weapons system, or the missiles, then how does it prevent them from shooting? It doesn't. IFF doesn't work that way.

Zaphod58
reply to post by iBallinU

 

You didn't have to. But if it's not connected to the weapons system, or the missiles, then how does it prevent them from shooting? It doesn't. IFF doesn't work that way.

I don't know what your deal is, but let me just repeat it again..I'm not talking about how IFF works, nor do I care, nor was it the point of my post.

reply to post by iBallinU


The point of your post was that Turkey modified their IFF to allow them to fire on Israeli aircraft. Then how is how IFF works NOT relevant to that? You can't say "Turkey modified their IFF" and then say "I don't care how IFF works" when someone refutes that. That's like a kid sticking their fingers in their ears going "LALALALALA" when someone says something they don't like.

Maxatoria
sure they're il-20's as they got withdrawn in 1949 according to wikipedia?, its probably the Russians doing what they do best send a few bombers to fly over international waters to see response times of the airforces and it happens regularly all over Europe so if its just a Russian training flight with a bit of playboy picture trading then its nothing to be worried about

Not a bomber but an intelligence collection aircraft. The designation IL-20 was re-used for a development of the IL-18 Coot airliner. The IL-20 is fitted with a side-looking airborne radar (See image link featuring the pod under the fuselage). The aircraft will also cover ELINT/SIGINT collection.

www.airliners.net...

www.airliners.net...

www.globalsecurity.org...

The original design from which the IL-20 was developed.

en.wikipedia.org...

Zaphod58
reply to post by iBallinU

 

The point of your post was that Turkey modified their IFF to allow them to fire on Israeli aircraft. Then how is how IFF works NOT relevant to that? You can't say "Turkey modified their IFF" and then say "I don't care how IFF works" when someone refutes that. That's like a kid sticking their fingers in their ears going "LALALALALA" when someone says something they don't like.

What is your problem?
Yes, we get it, you know more about aircraft then most people. Get over you self buddy.

So now you're going to tell people what they think?
No, the point of my post was to say that Turkey has/or is changing the IFF systems on some 200 of their F16's.
I never once said that it will allow Turkish F16's to shoot at Israeli F16's. Not once.
All I said was, and you can actually go back and check this, is that they are changing the IFF systems. I also said that Israeli(and gave a bunch of other random F16 users) F16's wont be seen as "blue", as in "friendly".
I gave a link from the aviationist and a Turkish news site backing up what I said.

Because someone dared to speak about aircraft, you the all knowing aircraft guru, have come along and made a bunch of assumptions.

Keep it up and I'll report you for harassment.
I've pointed out several times what I was and wasn't talking about. But you keep insisting. Grow up.

Screw it, just ain't worth it.

Zaphod58
Screw it, just ain't worth it.

edit on 11/5/2013 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)

You want to discuss what and how an IFF is/works, then by all means go right ahead and detail it for us all to read.
But don't sit there telling me what I said and didn't say according to you.

GrantedBail
reply to post by intrepid

 

You are welcome to leave Israhell out of it if you wish. But it is very clear to anyone that has been actively watching what has been going down in Syria for the last couple of years who the players are.

Well your are sending your sos to the wrong people. Russia is a fickle mistress and will only stand by you as long as you meet their needs, then they drop you like a hot potato. Assad should initiated reforms and elections to save his country, it is too late now.

Now, because of Isis and others Israel will take action and with the world's blessing. It is almost too late but he can try still. Stand down and hold elections..

The Bot

dlbott

GrantedBail
reply to post by intrepid

 

You are welcome to leave Israhell out of it if you wish. But it is very clear to anyone that has been actively watching what has been going down in Syria for the last couple of years who the players are.

Well your are sending your sos to the wrong people. Russia is a fickle mistress and will only stand by you as long as you meet their needs, then they drop you like a hot potato. Assad should initiated reforms and elections to save his country, it is too late now.

Now, because of Isis and others Israel will take action and with the world's blessing. It is almost too late but he can try still. Stand down and hold elections..

The Bot

And who is America, or Israel, to dictate to others how they should run their countries?

THIS, the attitude, the arrogance you just showed in your post, is why so many people of all skin colours of all ethnicity's of all creeds, HATE American foreign policy.


If ballot papers were lost in Syria, the US and others would be jumping up and down yelling rigged elections. But when it happens in a client state like Australia, not a peep.

When there are irregularities in voting and problems with voting machines in American elections, the other western powers stay quiet.

But all are very very quick to point the finger and make accusations of election rigging in other countries.


The level of corruption in the west is astronomical.
It is no less then countries that you know as being corrupt.
The only difference is that on the surface, western countries have the facade of democracy and freedom and a functioning system.

If only you knew how close to the surface corruption really is.