Comet Ison 'Looking Odd'

Aleister
reply to post by skyblueworld

 

So if ISON is more of a solid body could it be an asteroid with a covering that's torn off in the solar wind? Does this happen to some first time round the sun asteroids? An interesting thread, thanks for putting it up OP.

The general idea is that after a good few orbits round the sun, a comet will either evaporate into nothing, fall into the sun, become a dry dustless rockball with no water, gas or dust left, or break up into a cloud of rocks due to the gravitational pressure.

Sounds like Ison has worn off the outer layers of ice and dust, and is now left with a hollow nucleus venting water as gas.

reply to post by winofiend


Well now I excited, seeing you say that.

This whole thing is incredible. This is the type of article, and the content therein, that you see on some dodgy site, with an opinion from an 'official' source.

This, well, this is the real deal in terms of info.

Well I find it odd that it crossed our orbital path. Planet of the crossing?

And its green, ie poison?

Wormwood and possibly planet X does come to mind though I don't concur with those codes and believe all the cycle nonense is put out there, with sunshots and everything they pretend they can't handle, electrical, oh but they've had years to prepare communities and get aquaponics and alternative energy going in every town. Since the 80's and their underground bases and a big waste of money, took place.

Anything that goes down is THEM TRYING TO KILL THE MIDDLE CLASS OF THE WORLD, they want slaves and the elite only, and are trying to hide behind false things like cosmic events, accidents with oil spills and radiation, GMO mistakes, and making revelations come true, hoping the people won't blame them and buy it.

I don't, its them. Nard them.


Balls of Steel - The Ultimate Nutshot

reply to post by skyblueworld


You have collected some pretty good information here but I am a little confused over your video where you say that comet ISON is effecting the Sun. How can this be? I admit I am ignorant of such things. I guess what I don't understand is the size of the Sun and the size of the comet that isn't impacting but just flying by shouldn't effect the Sun. Maybe I'm wrong. Great information though. Well Done!

rickymouse
The people who study comets rely on past observations to predict the paths and actions of the comets. They collect a lot of data but their data can be off. They have got a lot better at predicting the behavior, but everyone has to understand. It is just an informed logical guess when they are trying to figure out the paths of the orbit. Their estimate of the composition of this could be off, that will alter the path if it is. Nobody can precisely know what every rock in space is composed of. I am impressed with their track record so far, even though most of the predictions lately have not worked out as they said they would. At least their orbit tracking has been pretty close as far as I know.

Although how would we know if they were on or not. We have no way of knowing for sure if their orbit predictions were right. How could we tell if something was within their quoted range.

Ahem, let me stop you there and clear something up. The orbit can be guessed from repeated observations over a period of time. All bodies in the Solar System follow the same orbital mechanics, which for most part are determined by the Sun's gravity. Initially, it is indeed a guess, but over weeks and months of observations, the orbit is pretty much nailed down. What's more, it isn't just up to the professional astronomers to establish that; amateur astronomers everywhere are tracking comets and asteroids, and calculate their orbits.

I am sure they would tell us if they were wrong even though they know that we do not have any way to actually check if it is right. Yeah right, these guys are smart and as long as all of these agencies stick together nobody will ever know. They are of a kind, if we lose confidence in them they lose funding. All these agencies will loose respect cause they stick together.

Wrong again. If a comet is not where space agencies say it is, the amateur and professional astronomers will expose the error.

I guess you haven't been reading, or have been purposely ignoring, many recent threads about ISON and other bright comets, where all the work being done by the amateurs is mentioned. They track the comet (which is possible because we know its orbit), perform various measurements and calculations, and of course take amazing images.

One thing you're right about, it's practically impossible to predict a comet's behaviour, except to assume that it will get brighter and more active as it approaches the Sun. But that's one of the more exciting sides of studying comets: their behaviour tells us of their composition and other characteristics.

By the way, here's the link to the International Scientific Optical Network (ISON), after which the comet was named: lfvn.astronomer.ru... They aren't part of any space agency, and make some excellent discoveries and studies of space objects. Comet Elenin was discovered through that network too, by the way.

What a great time to be alive!!!! As the fat guy with thick glasses rides off in the possy says" I just love this kinda stuff'.

Soylent Green Is People

skyblueworld
reply to post by AlphaHawk

 

Link

It was this sites words, I should of quoted it, doh!

We don't hear from them lately though do we...

edit on 2-11-2013 by skyblueworld because: (no reason given)

But is NASA really studying ISON a great deal? Isn't most comet instigation/discovery usually done by other organizations and very-well-equipped amateur astronomers? NASA (very occasionally) uses its equipment to gather data on a comet, but that's usually data given out to other non-NASA astronomers.

For the most part, NASA scientists traditionally don't get deeply into comet investigation and discovery (although STEREO incidentally discovers sungrazers). It's not really what they do. I haven't been expecting a lot of intense scientific scrutiny of ISON from NASA; they usually let the comet hunters do that.

edit on 11/2/2013 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)

But it was NASA that hyped this comet in the first place! Then subsequently, they changed the public's expectations of a grand show : this in reality is the equivalent of NASA ignorance and/or deception. Next, when ISON closes in on Mars when things ought to have got interesting, NASA goes into shutdown which is a national disgrace, a misuse of public money.

I am an atheist, but when I read someone mentioning the waters turned to blood, I immediately thought of Fukushima and radiation.

Does this mean I've been on ATS too long?

reply to post by wildespace


If their estimate of the density of a body going around the sun is off, it means that their figures of it's orbit will be off. They have been pretty good at estimating the density so far so their figures stay within the parameters usually. If their estimate of the density is off by a lot, the orbit may not stay within the designated path. In the case of Ison, that will not make a difference, it is far from earth after it goes around the sun even if it is off a bit. There are always unknowns when looking at a rock from millions of miles away. I am impressed how good they are at estimating the path. If you look at the figures in the estimates it gives a range, this could vary by a hundred thousand miles either way as it gets farther away from the sun. Think of a variation of a tenth of a degree caused by a weight discrepancy and then change the angle and fly it by the earth. It can easily add up to a hundred thousand miles or more.

The path is an estimate, it has variance built in, the variance is calculated by what they know about what they do not know about the rock. Unless an astronomer has a lot of money for specialized radar systems, they will not know if this is within these guidelines. The Hubble telescope is very expensive and is outside of the atmosphere's distortion so it can usually make a more accurate assessment. I do not know anyone who has a Hubble telescope in the private sector to check the calculations to see if they are correct. Amateur astronomers do not have the capability of accurately checking this variance.

I research parameters of how things are done. I research how estimates are made, not usually the figures they are giving. I'm not interested in details, I want to know how things work and what the evidence means so I can understand the variances. Some people have an interest in knowing particulars, That is not an interest to me. I like analyzing things, not memorizing things. This way I can learn to interpret the evidence on my own. If you dig deep into how these estimates are made, you will see that I am pretty much on track with my analysis.

Anyway, Ison is not really a threat to the earth if their analysis of it's density is even remotely close.

I just looked up the name, it is called precession of the orbit. I have a hard time remembering names but can remember basic concepts well. It is the way my mind works.

reply to post by rickymouse


The orbit of comets, planets, or asteroids around the Sun doesn't depend on their density or mass. It only depends on the distance from the Sun at any point:
boards.straightdope.com...
answers.yahoo.com...

Celestial mechanics have been in use for hundreds of years, and are precise enough for us to land a probe on a small comet or asteroid zooming millions of miles away at thousands of miles per hour.

The orbit is calculated by observing where the object is at several points in time, then extrapolating its orbit from those positions using the aforementioned equations. The more positions you have, the more precise the orbit is. Nothing to do with the object's composition or density.

By the way, even if ISON's density means it will break up into pieces, those pieces will continue on the same trajectory, only very slowly (extremely slowly in cosmic terms) drifting apart.

Very interesting first the comet turns green and now it behaves differently as any other comets do? I do support the fact that we need some experts oppinion , and then I mean people who really research the stars and comets here on ATS. But it seems they don't answer any calls here and I think it's either they don't know or if they do they loose some astronomical benefits within this comunity to blatantly make a statement of what they see?

Here more info I bump into interesting

youtu.be...


www.facebook.com...

Riffrafter

GreyGoo
So is Ison a trojan horse ??

Interesting choice of words. In another thread talking about the fact that there are now 4 comets in the sky at once, a poster sort of half-jokingly said they hoped it wasn't the 4 horsemen...

It is an *interesting* coincidence though...and I hate co-inky-dinks...

If you haven't seen it, there's some great pics and interesting info in that thread. Link below:

Four Comets...

Standard disclaimers apply: Your mileage may vary, void where prohibited, etc...

Oh nice connecting of the dots there that's what i love about ATS the community never miss a beat, even with the news ATS leave all the mainstream outlets in the dust, usually I hear stuff here sometimes upto a couple of days before it gets to the bbc and there ilk. Nice post riffrafter

Excellent thread and some food for thought.
I just wanted to add that naming this comet Ison may be appropriate. ISON > EYES ON, as in, "everyone's EYES will be ON this comet"

So the current question is, will Ison take a sharp turn in our direction before it gets to the sun, or will it sling around the sun and then change course in our direction.

In either case, it will then be time to start running around in circles screaming like the proverbially little girl. I don't want to think about what those who equate this as porn will be doing.

Or maybe, Ison will turn out to be a very interesting comet from which we will learn a great deal.

One thing about the dust concept that bothers me, Wouldn't the deep vacuum of interstellar space remove all the dust from comets? Why would approaching the sun cause dust to start leaping off of the surface of a comet?

I see plasma!

poet1b

So the current question is, will Ison take a sharp turn in our direction before it gets to the sun, or will it sling around the sun and then change course in our direction.

The answer is that a comet cannot change its direction. It moves under the Sun's gravity (practically falling towards it in an arc), and our knowledge of celestial mechanics allows us to know where it is going. ISON's trajectory has been pinned down, and if you get its future coordinates, say, for January, and point your telescope there - that where you will find it. scully.cfa.harvard.edu...

One thing about the dust concept that bothers me, Wouldn't the deep vacuum of interstellar space remove all the dust from comets? Why would approaching the sun cause dust to start leaping off of the surface of a comet?

Why and how would the vacuum of space remove all the dust? In space, things stay where they are (or continue moving the way they have been moving) unless another force acts on them.
Since comets have frozen volatiles (water and gasses) in them, approaching the Sun means those substances are warmed up and sublimate - sometimes in powerful jets - and that kicks the dust off the comets. Very far away from the Sun, comets look just like icy asteroids.

As much as I don't agree with the electric universe model I sometimes wonder if they might have something concerning comets.

wildespace
reply to post by rickymouse

 

The orbit of comets, planets, or asteroids around the Sun doesn't depend on their density or mass. It only depends on the distance from the Sun at any point:
boards.straightdope.com...
answers.yahoo.com...

Celestial mechanics have been in use for hundreds of years, and are precise enough for us to land a probe on a small comet or asteroid zooming millions of miles away at thousands of miles per hour.

The orbit is calculated by observing where the object is at several points in time, then extrapolating its orbit from those positions using the aforementioned equations. The more positions you have, the more precise the orbit is. Nothing to do with the object's composition or density.

By the way, even if ISON's density means it will break up into pieces, those pieces will continue on the same trajectory, only very slowly (extremely slowly in cosmic terms) drifting apart.

edit on 3-11-2013 by wildespace because: (no reason given)

Say what??!
As the comet passes around the sun, its trajectory headed back out will depend ENTIRELY on its mass and density.

I am but a layman and can easily see that this entire post is incorrect.

At any rate, YAY! Fresh doom.
I actually didn't like the four horseman reference.

JayinAR

wildespace
reply to post by rickymouse

 

The orbit of comets, planets, or asteroids around the Sun doesn't depend on their density or mass. It only depends on the distance from the Sun at any point:
boards.straightdope.com...
answers.yahoo.com...

Celestial mechanics have been in use for hundreds of years, and are precise enough for us to land a probe on a small comet or asteroid zooming millions of miles away at thousands of miles per hour.

The orbit is calculated by observing where the object is at several points in time, then extrapolating its orbit from those positions using the aforementioned equations. The more positions you have, the more precise the orbit is. Nothing to do with the object's composition or density.

By the way, even if ISON's density means it will break up into pieces, those pieces will continue on the same trajectory, only very slowly (extremely slowly in cosmic terms) drifting apart.

edit on 3-11-2013 by wildespace because: (no reason given)

Say what??!
As the comet passes around the sun, its trajectory headed back out will depend ENTIRELY on its mass and density.

I am but a layman and can easily see that this entire post is incorrect.

At any rate, YAY! Fresh doom.
I actually didn't like the four horseman reference.

ETA: I understand what you are getting at, but you are overlooking that this is ISON's first pass around our sun that we have observed.
We don't have enough data to calculate its orbit until it heads back out.