Why so many people–including scientists–suddenly believe in an afterlife

wildtimes
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

Yeah, but, you can still enjoy gazing at it!! I love blue, and hoodies are my 'uniform.'

Anyway, they say NDEs are way "realer" than "real" - that the colors surpass ANYTHING we have here (and I LOVE the colorful world as I see it, whether it's all 'reflected' or not.) Still, makes one think, doesn't it??

I think that one possibility is that when in the NDE state, one is no longer under the same preconceived construction of reality as "normal."

I think many of us feel a vast separation due to our perspective, and in this way, everything "out there" (including other people) does not feel "real."

So, in feeling "realer than real," perhaps it is an indication that the individuals framework for what "real" feels like is too strictly based on a baseline that can be changed with various exercises. In other words, perhaps it is just a bias based on our perceived separation from the world around us. In that, perhaps it is something which can be grown to induce that state even when not experiencing an NDE, OOBE, etc.

I notice that many get caught up in wanting to experience such things, and maybe, just maybe, it is a type of mind trap. Perhaps the same experience can be had in normal, waking life with every step we take.

Its an intense way to perceive the world.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Where we are, right here and now.. is about as weird and wacky as it can get. We have constructed a framework to "make sense" of it, but in the end, that framework is only applicable to and individual using their senses. Not only does it not apply to other individuals, but it doesnt even apply to what is perceived! Even further, it only includes a small percentage of what is actually going on in the first place.

Truly amazing, in my opinion.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Serdgiam

 

Like the fact that my favorite blue hoodie is actually every color BUT blue? And the blue is just that particular wavelength failing to absorb and being reflected where I can see it? Which means the blue is a lie. Yeah. Mindscrewed.

edit on 6-11-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

In ICC speak, technically it's not a color, it's a hue.

Yes, your hoodie is blue hued. Which particular hue is your blue? There are thousands of hues.....

Yep, once you think about it, mindscrewed.

Serdgiam
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

Where we are, right here and now.. is about as weird and wacky as it can get. We have constructed a framework to "make sense" of it, but in the end, that framework is only applicable to and individual using their senses. Not only does it not apply to other individuals, but it doesnt even apply to what is perceived! Even further, it only includes a small percentage of what is actually going on in the first place.

Truly amazing, in my opinion.

Yes, exactly. And it is amazing.

And sensitives to the paranormal and supernatural are experiencing something that manifests to their five senses, which then would make perfect sense as we can only experience with our five senses what is manifested. But the spiritual realm is largely not manifested to the natural realm, but some people can still sense it.

WarminIndy
Yes, exactly. And it is amazing.

And sensitives to the paranormal and supernatural are experiencing something that manifests to their five senses, which then would make perfect sense as we can only experience with our five senses what is manifested. But the spiritual realm is largely not manifested to the natural realm, but some people can still sense it.

The first part of my response is purely semantics, but they played a role in my personal perception of the topic at hand. I do not believe in anything paranormal or supernatural. The personal insinuations and assumptions of those words, even in their construction, rejects or accepts them according to different archetypes ("The Scientist," "The New Ager," "The Atheist," "The Christian," etc).

When I changed my thinking on these things, my perception changed. More than that, I actively explored them (as much as possible), and tried to find various ways these patterns and waveforms could manifest. So, instead of outright dismissal, I asked myself "If "X" does happen, it must happen in a patterned and explorable way. What might be that pattern?" It is essentially exploration according to the scientific method. It is the precursor to coming up with a hypothesis, and then exploring it.

However, what I was doing was looking at a blue hoodie with the current framework I had created to make sense of reality. "That hoodie is blue." But, when I stopped using my perception as a baseline for reality, and instead used it as a inherently limited tool to explore.. Well, that was a major personal shift.

The very experience of OOBE and NDE shows that the typical framework of reality that we have created is not "true to form." It may or may not indicate life after death, but to my interpretation, it shows that the majority of our frameworks are not as complete as they could be. They will never be "all encompassing" of "all that is." But.. Can we grow our perspective to include an active participation of all of the parts that make up our perspective? I believe the answer to that is "Yes."

I think that the experiences that are perceived during NDE, OOBE, TM are not something inherently separate from our individual experience. They are part of our experience at all times, but due to various different "rules" we have set in place, they are discarded. Conversely, the same thing happened after my NDE. Where, I now placed that experience as the sole framework for reality and discarded the sensory framework. As I found out, both of these seeming dualities are at play simultaneously. At least, that is how I have interpreted it at this point.

The inclusion of both as valid, continuously and at the same time, was a real "eye opening" experience. One that is happening continuously.

reply to post by Serdgiam


I have to laugh a little bit here at the archetype of Christianity, as Christianity is a little bit different for everyone when it comes to the supernatural or paranormal. I don't understand how Christians can embrace the supernatural, but not the paranormal...well, most Christians anyway.

But the paranormal isn't something we understand unless we experience it, one might believe in it and never experience it, or one might experience it while not believing it prior. But as I said, the spiritual realm manifests into the natural realm, that is how we experience it, while at the same time questioning our perceptions about what we feel or see manifested.

I once belonged to a paranormal investigation group and can tell you that we don't just investigate things randomly or without scientific exploration. The first rule is that you never talk about it to each other prior to or during an investigation, to remove suggestibility. Number two, do not smoke while on an investigation, to remove the possibility of contamination and mistake in images in photos.

That being said, the amount of money spent on gadgets is astounding, people pay thousands of dollars for this equipment and that is to rule out every natural cause. That's why I find most paranormal investigation shows amusing because they are constantly talking about what they are experiencing. And I always wondered if a house is so haunted, then why are the cameramen sent in first?

There is a physical change in the properties in an area and I have seen it many times personally.

But here's one for you, one time before an investigation, I was called that morning by the leader and said we were going that night. She did not tell me where or who. All day long I sat and recorded impressions I was receiving. I wrote these on paper and the time I got the impression. That evening, when they picked me up, I had them blindfold me so I would not see where we were going. When we finally arrived at the destination in another town, I did not remove the blindfold until we were in the living room of the house we were investigating, to which I handed the paper of impressions to the home owner.

Of the 20 impressions that I received that day and the times they occurred, I had all 20 correct, even down to the blue kitchen that I had even said where the windows were. I told her the name of her favorite painting and where she had had it hung. Are these coincidence? Did I just randomly think of something that later turned out true?

But not one time did I do any ritual to enhance my perception. I simply played the Sims all day. But if I could do this, then it kind of frightens me to think someone else can see into my life that well, and attempt to enhance their perception in that gift. And I also know how "psychics" trick people. There is a difference in the real ones and the ones making money off it.

But what would you do if I walked up to you and said "your grandparent's gave you a Three Dog Night eight-track on your eighth birthday". I did that once to someone who asked me to come and read their house...I don't read houses, but that's what they call it. The guy was a skeptic of the paranormal, but was getting tossed down the stairs by something he could not see. BTW, that was what is grandparents had gifted him with.

reply to post by Serdgiam

I think that the experiences that are perceived during NDE, OOBE, TM are not something inherently separate from our individual experience. They are part of our experience at all times, but due to various different "rules" we have set in place, they are discarded. Conversely, the same thing happened after my NDE. Where, I now placed that experience as the sole framework for reality and discarded the sensory framework. As I found out, both of these seeming dualities are at play simultaneously. At least, that is how I have interpreted it at this point.

The inclusion of both as valid, continuously and at the same time, was a real "eye opening" experience. One that is happening continuously.

Yes, I totally agree. Those who have 'tasted' the "other side", whether through TM, NDEs, OBEs, or whatever - don't retain the 'sensation' for very long. Inevitably we are cast back into 'this realm' to continue our processing; if we were constantly engaged with the other side, we'd neglect taking care of business on THIS side, which, when accomplished, will allow us to enter the other permanently.

(Why did Night at the Roxbury just come to my mind? LOL!)

Anyway, brilliant post.
Glad you joined us.

reply to post by WarminIndy


So...you're a psychic. That's pretty damn cool in my opinion. You have a gift. Don't waste it. You might think that denying that part of yourself is noble and moral, but what if you could save lives or bestow happiness or clear the fog for someone if you had the means? I know it's not a radio. You can't just tune in. But I know there have been times and will be times when you know something that could help someone else, and you might hold back because of HOW you know...

Don't do that. If you can make someone's life better through your gift, you have a moral obligation. With great power comes great responsibility. And I want you to know that at least one person - me - respects and admires your gift. You are not a freak or anything like that. You are a miracle. Never be ashamed of what you can do.

reply to post by WarminIndy


Wow, Indy! I like you more and more as I read your thoughts and musings and positions.

What a stimulating mind you have, my dear...
that story is awesome.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Oh my gosh, the term psychic carries so much more than I am comfortable with, I prefer to think I only am sensitive. I have MS and live with the constant flux of changing cognitive function, so I think it all has to do with electrical impulses from this world and the other.

I don't want to know so much about people, so I don't enhance it in any way. My brother thinks I should, but I prefer to use it only when necessary and beneficial and I believe all people have some level of psychic ability.

But I do use it when I think someone needs help. But I don't want to make money off it, I prefer to give people a good word or a good deed when needed.

reply to post by wildtimes


Amazing thread here!!

The Holographic Universe, Electric Universe and Living Universe is the driving force behind this awakening!!

Really we need to be calling it "Multi-verse"!!

I disagree with the "junk" DNA. In programming there is no "junk" only encryption.

Junk causes lag and gremlins...



reply to post by WarminIndy

WarminIndy

Great Video, its just the scientist in it is such a tool.

He just gets done calling DNA and ourselves Biological Machines, and then attributes it all solely to Evolution.

Within the Study of Biology and Genetics the scientists are seeing this Design but are unable to express it or they get fired!!

A world of scared scientists!!

wildtimes
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

Wow, Indy! I like you more and more as I read your thoughts and musings and positions.

What a stimulating mind you have, my dear...
that story is awesome.

You do realize, don't you, that for most Christians, this disqualifies me as a Christian in their eyes...lol.

Maybe that's why some pastors don't like me in their churches, because I disagreed with them and they knew it?

That's why I am not an Orthodox Christian, because I have experienced something that they try to suppress.

reply to post by WarminIndy

Oh my gosh, the term psychic carries so much more than I am comfortable with, I prefer to think I only am sensitive.

That is what psychic means to me. It means you are sensitive to the point that you are able to pick up coherent and accurate impressions using only your mind. There is no guarantee to how well or how often or how quickly you can do it. Only that you have a chronic ability to do it. I meant no more than that.

But I do use it when I think someone needs help. But I don't want to make money off it, I prefer to give people a good word or a good deed when needed.

Exactly.

reply to post by WarminIndy


Indeed. It qualifies as 'witchcraft'.

WarminIndy
reply to post by Serdgiam

 

I have to laugh a little bit here at the archetype of Christianity, as Christianity is a little bit different for everyone when it comes to the supernatural or paranormal. I don't understand how Christians can embrace the supernatural, but not the paranormal...well, most Christians anyway.

I find the discrepancy strange as well. I consider myself a Christian in that I follow the two commandments set forth by Jesus. This is not enough for many, many people. And because I have a different view, I have been labelled everything from a heretic to a witch (dont even know if that applies to males).

For the rest of your post;

I really try to equate "psychics" to "physics." There are, as you say, just some really clever people that play on others desire to believe. However, there are some others that... dont apply to this understanding. Things get too specific (as you beautifully illustrated).

I talked before about magnetism and electricity (EM). I actually think this plays into exactly what we are talking about here to an extreme degree, and even gives a viable avenue to explore. Thats not to say it is a definitive explanation, simply an area to investigate.

I think that most define their reality exclusively by the bio-electrical signals and discard the magnetic fields that are induced by them. When an NDE or similar experience happens, it is switched to the other arena. While the electrical fields are collapsing and decaying, the magnetic fields are as well, but at a different rate. We are still trying to "experience life," but are unable to do so through our electrical framework so it shifts to the magnetic as a source for input. It might be possible that when this magnetic framework collapses, we could use the induced electrical current to kickstart life again as part of resuscitation. The interplay between E and M is really, really neat stuff.

I think that what you described can be feasible through this understanding as well, though it might be tough to explain without some sort of dissertation about my own perspective.

The "reality" is that when you recorded those impressions, they were of things that existed but had yet to be experienced by the bio-electrical framework we are used to using. I mean, that favorite picture was there. That tape was given. The only questionable part is "how did you know?" So, it might just be repeated lucky guesses. I find that improbable, but it is still a possibility. Or, you were able to perceive things in another way than through your bio-electrically driven senses. If its the former, then, we dont have much to talk about! If its the latter, then its simply a matter of exploring how it works.

I think that the possibility of magnetism existing outside of space-time would give a viable explanation for the pattern. Current understanding is that magnetism doesnt "do work," but its also possible that its "always doing work." Again, just speaking about possibilities!

If this is the case, and part of each of our experience is magnetically driven as well as electrical, then being able to "see" things as you did can be readily explained. To be clear on that, "readily explained" does NOT mean it is any less amazing!

When we are using the bio-electrical processes to see things, it is as they appear to us at a certain point in time and space. There are a lot of variables to this, but generally, we need to be able to percieve a wave of some sort that has reflection/refraction/etc for them to be perceived by our typical senses.

The "sixth sense" could be one that is based in magnetism instead, which would help explain why the typical processes of our senses do not need to be followed. If it "is" (this particular eight track was given at a certain point in time, this picture was someones favorite and in a certain point of space), then it could be picked up on by ourselves in much the same way as simply looking at it. Its just "looking" in a different way.

I really hope that makes a bit of sense. And after all, it is just my perspective on possibilities of this place we reside, and ourselves as part of it..

AfterInfinity
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

Indeed. It qualifies as 'witchcraft'.

LOL.

Where is that icon for that?

I wasn't even born with a veil covering my face, as I have heard some people say that qualifies one to be a "witch". Huh? Veil covering your face? What does that even mean?

I have never even read Harry Potter, so I think what "witchcraft" is has changed meaning over time? Could be?

People are always talking about "powers"...like one could twitch a Fiat into their drive-way. One time someone asked me "So what all are you able to do and what powers do you have?" Someone really asked me this. I don't have powers, but that seems to be something they have gotten through pop culture. I'm not Samantha Stevens or Jeanie. But that's what they associate it with.

I'll tell you another thing, when I go out to eat with people at Chinese restaurants, when we get the fortune cookies, I keep switching them around until I get one that feels right. I told my brother that I do this to throw "them" off...now he thinks I should read Tarot cards. I don't have the attention span into invest energy into that. If I can tell people without the Tarot cards, then why need them?

reply to post by WarminIndy


It's not like they teach classes on how to approach the subject. They probably meant to sound casual, rather than frightened or contemptuous. If you saw someone with two heads, how would you go about asking?

"Hey man, does that extra noggin boost your processing speed? Or do you share a noodle between the two of you?"

When something seems unnatural or potentially sensitive, there's no telling what sounds polite and what doesn't. Because you've never been in that position.

reply to post by Serdgiam


I don't know about that, I will investigate more research into it and consider it.
But I can feel vibrations in the air or on objects when I close my eyes and feel for it. That's how I beat my brother-in-law at Battleship, using vibrations from the board in front of me. He walked away and said "i'm never playing this with you again".

But let me share this, I had posted this in another thread. I used to work at a factory that made computer resistors, and the equipment we used to determine the resistance to see if they were within range, we used to measure ourselves in it, and I have a very low resistance to electricity. Could it be that I have a higher metallic composition naturally in my body?

I also have Multiple Sclerosis, which does affect the electrical impulses in the nerves. So something physical is present in me that is sensitive to the magnetic or electrical field. I drain batteries very quickly. I don't have Hemachromatosis, which might explain higher amounts of metal. But I do have a lowered resistance. Wouldn't it be interesting if real psychics and sensitives to the paranormal also had this decreased resistance?

I have met people who have been struck by lightning and they claim to be hypersensitive in their five senses.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

It's not like they teach classes on how to approach the subject. They probably meant to sound casual, rather than frightened or contemptuous. If you saw someone with two heads, how would you go about asking?

"Hey man, does that extra noggin boost your processing speed? Or do you share a noodle between the two of you?"

When something seems unnatural or potentially sensitive, there's no telling what sounds polite and what doesn't. Because you've never been in that position.

Like these girls?


It is amazing how these girls with two heads seem to share one brain, or make their two brains work in such tandem that they speak the same words at the same time, and can use the computer keyboard with both hands.

reply to post by WarminIndy


Wow, like 2 computers or Dual processors int he same computer!!

That is amazing. I've seen them before on TV and their story but didn't know they could interact together like that other than the speaking.