Why so many people–including scientists–suddenly believe in an afterlife

reply to post by wildtimes


Alcoholic intoxication can be reproduced simply by convincing oneself that they are drinking alcohol. Speaking of which...be right back, I need some Tylenol...

reply to post by wildtimes


Wasn't this the premise for The Incredible Hulk?

David Banner set out to prove he could somehow rev up adrenalin, creating a super body of super strength.

But that was what the whole series was based on, the concept of adrenalin in the body and how people who normally can't do things, suddenly find themselves capable of great feats.

While I am a "believer" in an eternal spirit, I think the "naysayers" have a point about TM, NDE, and OOBE.

I think that NDE, specifically, is still taking place in the material plane and is not necessarily indicative of "life after death." I do not feel that a life after death could really be comprehended even in the greatest of imaginations, since the processes which do the imagining are based concretely within very, very limited processes.

It believe it is essentially a run through that instead of being "powered" by the typical bio-electrical cycles in the body, is driven by the residual magnetism that these cycles create. These run transversely with the electrical signals, which gives rise (pun intended, ya betta believe!) to the experience of being "outside" of the body.

In my belief, our overall experience is comprised of bio-electrical and bio-magnetic cycles. In this universe (or perhaps just human culture), the electrical cycles tend to take precedence. However, the magnetic ones are still present in everyday life. But, when the organized EM activity is not able to parse it through "standard" means (brain-based activity), the data gets parsed through the bio-magnetic cycles instead. These magnetic cycles have a different rate of decay than the electrical ones.

I also apply this belief to ghost and haunting experiences (most of them anyway). Though in these experiences, I also include low frequency soundwaves as well. When an experience is done over and over, or if a single experiences causes an enormous amount of bio-electrical activity (extreme violence, emotion, etc) it also induces a larger magnetic force to accompany it. The bio-electrical activity subsides eventually, but the magnetic activity continues on and decays according to a different rate. Processes that are right on the edge of our perception, like extremely low frequency sound waves, can also create an experience of "spookiness, someone watching, etc."

Whatchya think?

From October 16, less than a month ago: Life After Death? New Techniques Halt Dying Process

NEW YORK — The line between life and death is not as clear as once thought, now that developments in the science of resuscitation have made it possible to revive people even hours after their heart has stopped beating and they are declared dead, medical experts say.

"Historically, when a person's heart stopped and they stopped breathing, for all intents and purposes, they were dead," said Dr. Sam Parnia, an assistant professor of critical care medicine at State University of New York at Stony Brook. "There was nothing you could do to change that," Parnia told an audience at the New York Academy of Sciences last week.

However, in the process of unraveling mysteries of death at the cellular level, scientists have learned that death does not occur in a single moment, but instead is a process. It is actually after a person has died -- by our current definition of death -- that the cells of the body start their own process of dying.

This is ABUNDANTLY clear as NDEs are occurring more and more as medical technology advances. Mellen-Thomas "awoke" from being dead for more than 90 minutes - he had asked his hospice worker to leave his body unmolested for at least six hours after "death" appeared....
she showed up sometime AFTER he had died, long enough for rigor to have set in, and there was NO indication of continuing life. And she sat with his body for 90 minutes before he revived.

OBVIOUSLY, it is now being understood that dying is not a "sudden" experience. Which leaves time for the consciousness to extract itself from (or be released by) the tissues, INTACT. You don't have to believe it, but it's being proven more every day.

If it's so "silly", sleepdealer, why are you still participating?

reply to post by WarminIndy


Yeah, because he wasn't strong enough to save his wife after she got trapped in a burning car.

reply to post by sleepdealer


The only problem with that is they usually end up saying they were actually in the presence of God. People with OBEs don't usually say that.

But some people have gotten high and believed they had a supernatural event, and some believe they reached enlightenment because of it. But did they have an NDE? If they almost overdosed, then perhaps. But since most NDEs were not drug induced, and usually at the moment of extreme illness or accident, or whatever, then it can't be said it was the neurotransmitters firing across synapses, because death is the cessation of firing neurotransmitters. And being brain dead means your brain no longer fires, then an NDE would have to be something other than a chemical reaction.

If a person has reached that moment where their brain is no longer firing the neurotransmitters, then it is a different experience than those whose drug induced brains are firing randomly.

Have also noted this trend. And see 2 possibilities:

1. not so good, more related to NWO and fundamentalism, and this as a forced "change" to equalize the west and the middle east and Africa, and far east, homogenization, going to the lowest denominator or some middle grounds without all the variance of grade and understanding we're supposed to be having.

2. some forced preparation for some truth to come out. Like some of the science does. The reverse Sine for example can clean up the radiation and this world, and then an article on reverse microwaves cooling or chilling wine. Thats cool, toe in to their hidden technologies based on Keely, Walter Russel, Tesla. Maybe they'e begrudgingly bringing truth out.

For they've done some intense studies on consciousness, from RV experiments to picking up the photons from the astral body when the person hit the target. They can meet up in holographic rooms and experience the tangible. They know the soul is immortal and can even put spirit in containers, but there is intense karma for messing with people.....

So I look at it this way. When they start to share belief in God or afterlife, what are they sharing. Are they sharing from the intelligence and quantum physics brilliance of a scientist, like my uncle who is on a whole different level of questions, possibilities and therefore, outside religious boxes. OR, are they suddenly finding a new type of fundamentalism...

It has to do with what they suddenly believe....

The sense of disembodiment of consciousness occurs within the psychology of the experient as a dissociative state.

Okay. Suppose we allow for consciousness to continue when the physical body has been destroyed, how or what would be the mechanism of sensory stimulus. If consciousness (representing sentient awareness and intelligence) is still functioning, how is it able to sense external stimuli, process that stimuli, and still present the experient with sensory experience?

reply to post by wildtimes

My point was just that: the brain creates those hallucinations on its own. I'm not sure what you said about making it "less subconscious" works. But you could argue that hallucinations and after-life experiences have the same underlying neurobiology- why not.
Neurotransmitter receptors research is intricate and really not that advanced at the moment, so the precise molecular mechanisms behind these experiences elude us for now.

sleepdealer
But you could argue that hallucinations and after-life experiences have the same underlying neurobiology- why not.

I think that the fact that 99% of these experiences are all essentially perceived according to the same framework as everyday life at least points in that direction. However, it would be hallucinations much in the same sense as our everyday life is a hallucination. Meaning, that we only can sense a limited amount of the energetic activity happening around us, and it is parsed into a form that "makes sense" to our body and mind.

I think there is more at play than simply a shut down brain creating its own stimuli though. This is supported by some of the experiences where they were able to retell, accurately, things that could not be known to the electrical signals of the brain at the time.

reply to post by Unity_99

When they start to share belief in God or afterlife, what are they sharing.

The Absolute Truth, which is true for everyone.

I think the notion of "God" has been corrupted. "God" is inexplicable. My beef with religions that anthropomorphize "God" (The Source, or The Ultimate Reality) is that they put human traits (the same fragile ones we all suffer from) onto an incomprehensible CONCEPT.

The NDErs who saw "God" were conditioned think what they saw (the light) was "God", or Jesus, or Buddha, or whatever 'idea' they had about what "God" is.

God is NOT a "person", not a "he", and I find it puerile to tell grown adults, in an educated society, anything different than that. That's where it becomes "manipulation." Because we ALL start as babies with adults who care for us (or don't), we ONLY know - in this plane, at least - that adults care for babies/children until they are prepared to survive on their own.

So it's too easy to 'characterize' "God" as a "person". Yet, some people are simply NOT able to think in terms that are abstract enough to 'get the idea'.

I believe it was Klassified who said that it was when The Holy Books were no longer "secret", and were offered to the vulgate....which lets ANYONE who can READ decide for themselves, and the 'conclusions' they come to by reading the symoblism as literalism are juvenile. Immature. Just my opinion.

There are things that others are good at that are beyond my mind to accomplish - like physics, calculus, etc. And there are people who struggle to compose a simple essay. Writing is not their "strong suit."

When we come to a place where we find there IS A COMMON DENOMINATOR for ALL humanity, we will be 'there' - at "The Real Truth." Until then, religious factions will fuss and fight and belittle one another, when in actuality NONE of them (of the Abrahamics, anyway) have ALL of "The Real Truth."

The conundrum is in finding the words to EXPRESS what one experiences - such as becoming a parent. I can tell you what it's like, but you will never KNOW what it's like unless you become a parent YOURSELF. There are no real "words" to describe the depth of feeling that emerges with parenthood. Same with 'experiencing the Ultimate Truth.' Language fails us.

In that regard, ALL religious philosophies are simply ATTEMPTS to define or describe something that we are not equipped to really understand. YET.

Serdgiam:

...we only can sense a limited amount of the energetic activity happening around us...it is parsed into a form that "makes sense" to our body and mind. I think there is more at play than simply a shut down brain creating its own stimuli though. This is supported by some of the experiences where they were able to retell, accurately, things that could not be known to the electrical signals of the brain at the time.

I like your thought process, but feel you need to be mindful of the language you use.

Our sensory organs are tuned to particular frequency wavelengths and chemical signatures. This is the mechanism by which our bodies detect external energy radiations and chemicals by affecting a reaction upon the physical sensors. We also have internal sensors providing an internal body image, and a continual update on body state. This internal mechanism is called proprioception.

All existence, without exception, anywhere in and of the universe, is determined by energy interaction and correspondence. It is the underlying mechanism for all and any possible form of existence, and absolutely nothing can circumnavigate this mechanism.

reply to post by sleepdealer


sleepdealer, what you are describing sounds more like Schizophrenia.

But let me share this, I have Schizotypal Personality Disorder. Now does having the religious beliefs that I hold, am I mentally ill because of that?

Schizotypal Personality Disorder

I had a first degree relative with Schizophrenia, so yays for me and my brain....

I know the effects of delusions, but I also know when a delusion is a delusion. For instance, one night I thought aliens were trying to get into my apartment from my living room window. I could not see them but perceived something was there. I had a sensory reaction to this, in my physical body. So I asked myself to record my thoughts and my perceptions and had to convince myself it was a delusion. The next day I awoke and realized it was a delusion. But Schizotypals do understand and know the difference in delusion and reality.

Are there frames of references about me that I think are toward me? No, that is not something I experienced. But as in everything, I have to live every day being aware of when a delusion might happen. Is my belief in God from a delusion? No, because I have to rationalize to get out of the delusion and I know there are triggers for it. So far, my experiences with God is above what I can rationalize. Do you see the difference?

As my brain may be misfiring at times, as it does with Schizophrenics, you wouldn't say all religious people are mentally ill, even if some of them are. I live with the fight of delusion vs. reality every day. But my religious faith does not reside solely within my conscience.

If it weren't for my faith in God, I just might be totally Schizophrenic.

elysiumfire
All existence, without exception, anywhere in and of the universe, is determined by energy interaction and correspondence.

Except, of course, if this universe is only a part of the totality of "existence."

reply to post by wildtimes


Some of us understand this, and NDE's are wonderful for glimpsing into the truth, such as Anita Moorjani's, where she become her infinite Higher Self, and saw it was like a completed infinite tapestry, and we were a thread in this, our current life. Non judgmental, nothing to forgive, for its understanding why anyone does what they do, is based on their lives and genetics and circumstances, and we're learning, growing, sometimes not through good lessons, sometimes its the hard stuff, even being cut off from our inspirations for a stage and working things through the damage that negativity can bring either as the receiver or the perpetrator of it. It was wonderful, unconditional love, and she allowed the healing to take place shortly afterwards.

But currently bucking against the fundamentalist trends all around us that do seem to be a part of NWO and their current reshaping....

reply to post by Serdgiam

Except, of course, if this universe is only a part of the totality of "existence."

Exactly.
Energy comes from the sun to the Earth. Where the energy for the REST of the universe "comes from" is impossible for us to know (yet.)

There are gurus and yogis who can survive ONLY ON SUNSHINE for days and days...

it's simply not pertinent to say definitively that "when the brain dies, the entity goes with it."
We are existing in only 4 dimensions. The universe has more than that - (I know you know these things, Serdg.)

We KNOW that other living things 'experience' the world differently than we do. We KNOW there are ranges of light and sound that are beyond our biological ability to see or hear, but we've made ways of "capturing" those for our use.

Hard Science has NOT ruled out "life after death." No matter how "rational" those who pooh-pooh the idea think they are, there are things we CAN NOT EXPLAIN. YET.

reply to post by wildtimes


For me, the mere possibility (no matter how improbable) of this universe existing within a much larger "X" is enough to explore it.

For many, if it hasnt been explored by science it doesnt exist. Ironically, thats about as unscientific as it can get!

So, the method I use for my own personal exploration of "what is" comprises of identifying processes and patterns that might not go according to the patterns that repeat in the physical universe. I think this is present when looking at quantum mechanics. They show that when looking at a particular boundary, and beyond, that the rules change up a bit. Thats enough for me to at least explore the possibility that there are other "realms" where the patterns that create the framework of what we know as the "material universe" are not present (at least not in the same form).

I also think it is important to consider and explore the possibility that some of these patterns can exist in multiple mediums/realms. If something like that does happen, then there is a direct connection between them. And if space-time is not relevant in every medium, it opens up a lot of different possibilities.

reply to post by Serdgiam


I don't contest the fact that these experiences are rich with symbols/metaphors, I am just saying that shouldn't be taken so literally. They are like shadows and fragments of objects, not the objects themselves.
And I don't think we have really mapped the extent of what "electrical signals of the brain" really know.

reply to post by wildtimes


Dark energy or dark matter, whatever you wanna call it. The universe is largely composed of something we can't even see, let alone know anything about. Kinda like God, except its proven to exist.

sleepdealer
reply to post by Serdgiam

 

I don't contest the fact that these experiences are rich with symbols/metaphors, I am just saying that shouldn't be taken so literally. They are like shadows and fragments of objects, not the objects themselves.

I would apply that to everything we perceive. Everything! Awake, asleep, NDE, staring at the boob tube, playing in the park, looking at the stars, and even the very math and science we use to explore.

And I don't think we have really mapped the extent of what "electrical signals of the brain" really know.

I agree with that fully. Not only that, we havent explored the relationship between bio-electrical signals and the magnetic fields that they induce. Oddly, "ghost hunters" use it as a standard part of their repertoire. Though, the data that is collected is inevitably interpreted according to whatever previous connections the individual brain has made.

I think our understanding of magnetism, specifically, still has a lot of room to grow.