DOJ Says UN Arms Treaty Trumps US Constitution

I'm shocked by the posters that actually trust the US government....

And the UN.

The current administration has lied, lied, and lied, right to your face, been exposed for liars, yet you still believe?

That's why we are doomed.

"This treaty doesn't take guns from citizens"

IMO: "if you like your insurance, you can keep your insurance."

The UN is the enemy. You draw down on me, and you can expect legions of my friends to scour your ass with lead. WE ALL FEEL THE SAME... You have no authority here.

reply to post by Hillbilly123069


I read several posts on the first page, and I have to say, I'm shocked there are so many ATS members who think this has anything whatsoever to do with gun ownership in the US. If you're not an international arms dealer, this treaty won't affect you in any way, shape, or form.

Sheesh...Don't FEED ignorance, Deny Ignorance!

phinubian
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

You have to have two witnesses and proof the act is against the U.S. and giving comfort to the enemy, not so easy to prove beyond a doubt in the case of Eric Holder just doing what any lawyer would have to do in this case, also think about it, Treason is founded upon violation of English Law, it's too bad the U.S. can't be ruled and have all of those old statutes converted to say under U.S. law right? so really treason is not a valid law that can be really enforced technically , are we or are we not still under English Law, that is the question I would like to pose, and my other question who is the last person convicted of treason in the United States?

I know a lot of the Snowden fans that probably support Holder being charged with treason, yet think Snowden is a a hero.

Again, its quite simple. If he filed a lawsuit, there are more than two witnesses. It states quite clearly in the constitution that its powers shall not be superceded. Thus, it is an act against the united states to try and usurp its power.

Treason is not a valid law? Come on now.

ETA: last ones in the US were in the late 40's.

Reading the document, the Congress enacted a law on chemical weapons, in accordance with a ratified treaty. The woman is charged and convicted under that Federal Statute, law. DOJ filed a brief concerning the history of the law, and how and why the woman was convicted. No Constitutional violations, or giving in to UN or other international organizations. Now, want to dance on the Free Trade deals, and I am all for it. Just a fancy way to dump products on us without the U.S. having the right to declare it is unfair trade. Most of the "free" Chinese companies are own in part or completely by the Chinese Red Army. So, at the very least most of Chinese businesses are government subsidized, making their prices lower. They are basically dumping products on the U.S. market, at unfair prices. Where less than loyal corporations happily import and sell those goods.

reply to post by buster2010


Of course the Treaty will have an effect on gun laws. It strictly limits countries to have a certain amount of firearms which will allow only enough for the military and police. All other firearms must be confiscated to meet the requirements. U have to read it like a lawyer. U really think they would make it obvious for the avg joe?

reply to post by Helious

I have no problems with making it very clear to you in no uncertain terms. What is being discussed in the OP of this thread is treason, it's not debatable but for those that would seek to undermine and destroy this country through actions and forked tongues.

Treason has a very specific definition...signing a treaty that you or even congress doesn't agree with doesn't fit it at all.

You are being a drama queen, and it doesn't help your argument.

No Constitutional lawyer on Earth is going to convince Americans that the UN "small arms treaty" supersedes the United States Constitution because it doesn't, not under any argument and if you're going to say it does then I call you guilty of the same I would charge Eric Holder and his cohorts with.

If you think they can bring this to the SCOTUS and win, you're insane, if you think they can bring this to the SCOTUS and it does get passed and Americans do nothing about it, you're insane.

Did I say it did?

And like it or not, your opinion on the matter means absolutely nothing. It would be for the SCOTUS to decide...and if you don't like their decision...tough.

Just because you "think" you are a constitutional scholar...doesn't really mean you are....all you are is another random person with an opinion...we all have them....yours isn't special.

If for whatever reason, it was decided that United Nations treaties or resolutions were going to be honored instead of or above the United States Constitution then that would mean that the "United States" would be under attack by foreign powers giving every American the just right to take up arms in defense of the country. A gross attack on the Constitution, the document that gives our very government it's legitimacy is an attack on the whole of America and would justify any means to the ends to liberate our country from the usurpers.

No, it does not give you that right...you have no "right" to defend the country...you have not "oath" to defend the country...you are a meaningless pawn in this system.

If you would take up arms against the government for whatever crazy reason you think you have a right to do so...you become the traitor to this country...that is the specific definition I was talking about.

The people have one role in this government...to cast your vote...after that you are not part of the government and you have zero say in what goes on in the government until the next election. And if the government as a whole decides they want to do something, no matter how much you think it is "against the constitution", it gives you no right to do anything about it...period.

Read it closely, in fact, read it all, front to back because you have a poor understanding of not only the Constitution but what it actually means to be an American.

You can't sidestep our founding documents or the framework our country was built upon to satisfy your perceived ideals of what our country should be based on lofty ideology mostly forced fed to you by media. You don't get to decide what is right or what is wrong, we live in a republic, a republic governed by law and at the top the power structure lies the Constitution, your misplaced morality and need to fit in doesn't and will not ever supercede that.

The Declaration of Independence is an important historical document...but it is not part of our countries laws.

It actually means nothing to me about "being an American"...it doesn't apply to me at all. In fact, it never applied to the common man at all...it was a declaration by a group of wealthy businessmen that they were starting a war with England over profit of their companies. They convinced a lot of idiots to fight and die for them for "freedom"...and they have somehow continued to convince idiots throughout history that this country is the most free country ever in the history of the universe. Oh, but don't forget that they condoned slavery, endorsed it, owned slaves themselves, and viewed women no better than the modern day Taliban does....oh yeah...but everyone is created equal.

I don't worship the founders, I actually think they were mostly a bunch of pricks.

The best thing about the Constitution is that it can be changed and be re-interpreted for the current times...and no amount of you waving the flag or wearing a tri-corner hat can change that.

oblvion
reply to post by buster2010

 

wrong'it sets the precident that international treaaties can and do trump american laws. that is against the law. as no treaty can be entered that is conflict with the law, otherwise the treaty, signed or not, is null and void by default.

Exactly. The chess pieces are being put in place. Checkmate never happen from one or two aggressive move, it is well thought out, methodical. Not a lucky accident. We will see but I always fantasize about bringing someone from the year 1995 to this future. I don't think the smartphones would be the only thing that would amaze them.

butcherguy
If this is true,
It is time to clean your guns, boys and girls.

Mine are always clean and ready

Even if UN treaties trump national constitutions this should be fought till the end. I can't see any good coming out of it, given the abysmal failures in iraq, north korea, iran, cuba, israel/palestine, UNICEF fighting hunger, etc.

The UN is a rockefeller and rothschild neoliberal organisation pushing for constant wars and eventually a new world disorder. Gun Control seems key in their agenda to fullfilling their dreams.

I am going to look more into UN treaties to see just how much legal weight they have.

reply to post by AlienScience


not inciting people to kill other people but to defend ourselves and our families when homeland thugs try to take our rights and finally lives away. those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. this saying by the justice department is totally treasonous it goes completely against the constitution which has laws against any treaty or international law superseding it specifically article VI clause 2

The U.N should not even exist. It is an enemy of freedom. The United States of America ought not to have any business with it and for those that do, they are part of a subversive organization helping to establish a socialist world government. I am an American and the U.N will never rule me. Shame on any of you Americans for supporting these and other subversive groups ( Free masonry, etc ).

reply to post by proteus33


No use discussing it with Alien Science. The guy is clearly on the wrong side.

reply to post by Astyanax


Usually I'm pretty eloquent, but this "you must" bull# you are spewing has hit a bit of a nerve with me.
1: We, as REAL Americans, you know, the ones who love their country and fought for it. "must" change absolutely JACK #. Our Constitution will only be changed by actions that either lead to or result in armed conflict. In short, try to disarm the people and get shot for your troubles. Take your obviously foreign attitude back to whatever #hole country you live that is more than likely receiving aid from mine.

reply to post by AlienScience


so did your grandfather turn in his Jewish neighbors during world war 2 back in the Old Country? Because you seem like the exact same kind of self-important prick that thinks he is more important and smarter than all around him. The kind of coward that would definitely turn in his neighbor with that awful "assault rifle" and the independent attitude. You are wrong on all accounts, you are not in any sense of the word, an American, and I wonder when the # truly hits the fan here, how many people a weasel like you will turn in to save his own precious A$$.

Who does the DOJ work for??

Speaking of which, who do you turn to. I enlist in the Marine Corps in 1967, as in volunteered after my draft number was passed over. You got to do what is right! Funny thing, the military took some sad cases back then, people who were practically illiterate, juvenile crime records, and minimal education. Yet, as large as the military was, there were fewer incidents of civilian criminal behavior off base (excepting the usual fighting and drinking problems) then now. Now, no criminal record, minimum high school education, etc., and read the news abound military bases, murder, drugs, etc.

So we get rid of Holder. He can be removed from his job by the people of this country. We need to stick together and stop things like this. Some things like inalienable rights are necessary which we have already adopted here in America. Gun control is probably the issue here.