“Scotland Yard have ruled out this incident being a hate crime”

Sometimes I just don't understand Brits. You have a problem with people in certain neighborhoods. Can't you just assume they are fans of a rival soccer team? Seems like an easy way to put together a small army and do some damage.

VictorVonDoom
Sometimes I just don't understand Brits. You have a problem with people in certain neighborhoods. Can't you just assume they are fans of a rival soccer team? Seems like an easy way to put together a small army and do some damage.

I had the same thought. Sometimes you just have to take matters into your own hands.

This is making me angrier and angrier because yes you could cause some damage to a rival soccer teams home base I suspect and all walk away with bloody noses and a couple tickets. But throw the holier-than-thou, untouchable, violent, rapist,welfare sucking, non-integrating muslim scum into the mix and its hands off or you're in jail.

Look at the EDL march after Rigbys death. Told flat out they could not enter Tower Hamlets due to perceived violence. Violence by whom?? The muslims of course.

I know a lot of people call the EDL the racist violent thugs but in my eyes he is fighting for his country. I'm guessing the tower hamlets is a public street? He was arrested for walking down it.

If you can defend that, you should be ok with forbidding muslims from certain parts of the city yes???

skalla
reply to post by dam00

 

I dont see anything in the provided links that connects this violent assault to the so-called "Muslim Patrols" - on the few short YouTube vids i have seen of such incidents, they clearly announce their affiliation and yet the victim in this instance makes no mention of this in the report.

OP - where does the assumption that the aggressors are "muslim patrol" that you mention come from?

Unfortunately the Muslim Patrols YouTube Channel has been suspended so I cant show you any more proof
as it is it just fits their standard of behaviour you know out number the person your attacking and use such a level of violence that the victim wont stand a chance also it was in Tower Hamlets who else would it have been and as Scotland yard have taken four months to even mention this to the public dont you think they have had time to leave out certain bits of info call it a process of elimination or what ever you want
Now back on topic do you think this was a hate crime ?

reply to post by tinner07


I dont want to take this off course, but the EDL are populated with violent racists. Their own founder left due to it. And an old friend of mine, who i knew for almost twenty years before he became a total twat was charged with assault (or similar) on an EDL march along with some of his EDL cronies for giving someone a good kicking. Both extreme sides are scum.

But until further evidence arrives, this is street violence.

reply to post by tinner07


So the EDL are violent racist? maybe because the muslims are violent rapists???

dam00

Unfortunately the Muslim Patrols YouTube Channel has been suspended so I cant show you any more proof
as it is it just fits their standard of behaviour you know out number the person your attacking and use such a level of violence that the victim wont stand a chance also it was in Tower Hamlets who else would it have been and as Scotland yard have taken four months to even mention this to the public dont you think they have had time to leave out certain bits of info call it a process of elimination or what ever you want
Now back on topic do you think this was a hate crime ?

We are not off topic, i'm discussing the assault you have based the thread around and i was referring to your OP. Their (Muslim Patrol) standard of behaviour from what i have seen, and is widely posted is that they announce themselves - after all, they are perversely proud of what they do and wish to let it be known what they are doing. This is after all how we know about it.

As for it being Tower Hamlets, it really makes little difference. Not every person of brown skin and Indian Sub-continent heritage is a muslim extremist i'm sure you will agree.

As to it being a Hate Crime - personally i see all violence as a hate crime (seems obvious to most), but in the eyes of the law and as far as i understand it there has to be a clear link to someone being targeted because of a specific group that they belong to i.e ethnic, sexual orientation, sub culture such as emos etc. This seems ludicrous to me as all violence is hate but there you go.

The fact remains that we have no statement from the victim that the attackers announced themselves as muslim patrol, or that they were targeting him for being Italian or an outsider to the area.

So untill more evidence arrives, it's all just an assumption and remains a violent assault by thugs due to an escalated confrontation late at night on the streets - sadly not uncommon.

abe froman
reply to post by dam00

 

A hate crime is when the victim isn't caucasian.

One of the truest statements I've read all day.

reply to post by skalla

But until further evidence arrives, this is street violence.

In all honesty, if this was five skinheads or five EDL supporters or simply five white Caucasians who assaulted a random 'Asian' man who wandered into 'their' area simply for being 'different' would you call it 'street violence' or 'hate crime'?

I don't understand the distinction - the attack was clearly motivated by 'hate' of some sort or another - or is anyone suggesting there was another reason behind the attack?

This is what happens to the sleeping Beauty ( Britain also other sleeping countries in EU ) their country won´t be their country anymore in the future.
There is something seriously wrong in EU and their policy favouring immigrants and making their life more important than the life of their own citizens. And when things got out of their hands they have no solutions anymore to fix the situation and everything gets worse.
Denying something is like it doesn´t exists, like this hate crime.
Goverments just washes their hands like Pontius Pilate, "there is nothing wrong going on."

reply to post by Freeborn


I'm pointing out the paucity of evidence.

I could get into a fight with someone of any colour or creed - and however the law viewed it and what ever charges were to be made, it's really about the intent of the aggressor which we can only assume at present.

of course if 5 white guys hit a muslim it would be a hate crime... look at this link...
www.barenakedislam.com...

CAIR calling for hate crime

It seems such a double standard. So much info out there to turn this thread into a muslim bash that I dont want to do. But I think it needs to be done at some point.

Why the conspiracy of the pro muslim movement across the globe? Its literally reaching every developed nation on Earth and nobody speaks of it

Freeborn
reply to post by skalla

 

But until further evidence arrives, this is street violence.

In all honesty, if this was five skinheads or five EDL supporters or simply five white Caucasians who assaulted a random 'Asian' man who wandered into 'their' area simply for being 'different' would you call it 'street violence' or 'hate crime'?

I don't understand the distinction - the attack was clearly motivated by 'hate' of some sort or another - or is anyone suggesting there was another reason behind the attack?

It would be race related, so it would be a hate crime, very good point and thank you

I find it hard to believe that there has been no mention whatsoever as to any thing that was said in the conversation the police say there was an exchange of words and then it got heated

what was said I wonder

tinner07
of course if 5 white guys hit a muslim it would be a hate crime... look at this link...
www.barenakedislam.com...

CAIR calling for hate crime

It seems such a double standard. So much info out there to turn this thread into a muslim bash that I dont want to do. But I think it needs to be done at some point.

Why the conspiracy of the pro muslim movement across the globe? Its literally reaching every developed nation on Earth and nobody speaks of it

Because anyone who critisizes Islam is met with violence or threats of violence

reply to post by skalla

As to it being a Hate Crime - personally i see all violence as a hate crime (seems obvious to most), but in the eyes of the law and as far as i understand it there has to be a clear link to someone being targeted because of a specific group that they belong to i.e ethnic, sexual orientation, sub culture such as emos etc. This seems ludicrous to me as all violence is hate but there you go

It seems that on this we agree.
The vast majority of crime is motivated by hate of one kind or another.

I'm pointing out the paucity of evidence.

Yes, I understand that - but my point remains; if the investigating officer clearly stated that a group of young, white males deliberately targeted and attacked someone for clearly not being from 'their' area and being 'different' would the attack be classified as a 'hate crime' by either yourself or the investigation team themselves?

I hate making assumptions of any kind but I've seen enough evidence to suggest that if this was white males attacking an 'Asian' it would be immediately labelled a 'hate crime'. So we have to ask the question, why the difference?

Freeborn
reply to post by skalla

 

Yes, I understand that - but my point remains; if the investigating officer clearly stated that a group of young, white males deliberately targeted and attacked someone for clearly not being from 'their' area and being 'different' would the attack be classified as a 'hate crime' by either yourself or the investigation team themselves?

I hate making assumptions of any kind but I've seen enough evidence to suggest that if this was white males attacking an 'Asian' it would be immediately labelled a 'hate crime'. So we have to ask the question, why the difference?

With your first point i feel that i have already been clear that i see it as an act of hate and that i do not see the need for individual distinctions in the law - i feel that it is pandering to overt political correctness. I'm bald for example, my partner could be seen as a goth - if we were attacked in the street i'd see no need for "special" charges a la the Sophie Lancaster (iirc)case for example on the basis of her dress and my bonce. As for the investigation team - that's not mine to define, they are governed by their own guidelines and the law, however i may feel about it.

In your second point you would be right in at least a significant number of case i expect, but i read reports of enough incidents in my local paper of assaults where the two parties are of differing race (including a white perp and brown victim) to know that this is not always the case and that race is not always a deciding factor in an assault.

Clearly balance needs to be restored in many cases.

But in the case of the assault in the OP, it's clear from the police report that we do not know what was said, and further info from the victim is lacking - he gives no clue as to what was said to him or his own role in the incident's possible escalation.

The possibility remains that the police left out such statements on purpose, but if we assume this then we could also speculate other causes to the attack and the victim's possible role in this.

skalla

Freeborn
reply to post by skalla

 

Yes, I understand that - but my point remains; if the investigating officer clearly stated that a group of young, white males deliberately targeted and attacked someone for clearly not being from 'their' area and being 'different' would the attack be classified as a 'hate crime' by either yourself or the investigation team themselves?

I hate making assumptions of any kind but I've seen enough evidence to suggest that if this was white males attacking an 'Asian' it would be immediately labelled a 'hate crime'. So we have to ask the question, why the difference?

With your first point i feel that i have already been clear that i see it as an act of hate and that i do not see the need for individual distinctions in the law - i feel that it is pandering to overt political correctness. I'm bald for example, my partner could be seen as a goth - if we were attacked in the street i'd see no need for "special" charges a la the Sophie Lancaster (iirc)case for example on the basis of her dress and my bonce. As for the investigation team - that's not mine to define, they are governed by their own guidelines and the law, however i may feel about it.

In your second point you would be right in at least a significant number of case i expect, but i read reports of enough incidents in my local paper of assaults where the two parties are of differing race (including a white perp and brown victim) to know that this is not always the case and that race is not always a deciding factor in an assault.

Clearly balance needs to be restored in many cases.

But in the case of the assault in the OP, it's clear from the police report that we do not know what was said, and further info from the victim is lacking - he gives no clue as to what was said to him or his own role in the incident's possible escalation.

The possibility remains that the police left out such statements on purpose, but if we assume this then we could also speculate other causes to the attack and the victim's possible role in this.

But there are now these special charges which like you say are used for just about anything even down to peoples clothing, and if Sophie Lancaster is the story Im thinking of then she was bullied for being a goth previously or so it was thought which is why it was a hate crime, whatching the cctv video it seems pretty obviouse the attackers wanted to aprehend Francesco, and what could he have possibly done to upset 5 men enough for them to inflict such a high level of violence on him all at the same time

We believe the suspects picked a fight with the victim as he was obviously not from the local area and they took exception to the fact that he was a bit different. The victim has an Italian accent, his own style of dress and mannerisms

Above is from the link to the Mets report in my OP
Even though it is thought the attackers are the muslim patrol they are not in Islamic clothing I find it strange they mention his style of dress and mannerisms
they singled him out and beat the crap out of him that is hate we all agree on that all except Scotland Yard

you would be right in at least a significant number of case i expect, but i read reports of enough incidents in my local paper of assaults where the two parties are of differing race (including a white perp and brown victim) to know that this is not always the case and that race is not always a deciding factor in an assault.

I would love for you to post the links but you probably wont

dam00

Above is from the link to the Mets report in my OP
Even though it is thought the attackers are the muslim patrol they are not in Islamic clothing I find it strange they mention his style of dress and mannerisms
they singled him out and beat the crap out of him that is hate we all agree on that all except Scotland Yard

I also find it strange that they mention his dress and mannerisms and wonder if the police are alluding to some factor that they are unwilling or unable to expand upon. While the victim clearly did not deserve a vicious beating i feel that the police may be suggesting some "odd" actions from the victim which seems unneccessary on their (the police's) part.

I would love for you to post the links but you probably wont

Seeing as i clearly said that i read the reports that i mentioned in my local paper (which is the free variety), short of going to the paper recycling plant, searching them out in a pile of mulch and reconstructing them and then photographing them and posting them here it would clearly be impossible.

However you seem strangely doubtfull that two people of differing race or culture could clash over non racial matters. Is this so or have i misinterpreted you?

You do realise that people clash over all manner of stuff every day, right?

If i play The Butthole Surfers at full volume all night and my asian neighbour comes around to complain, and i'm so wasted that i tell him to eff off and shove him and we then fight, is colour an issue?

No, i'm just aggressive, obnoxious and violent.

Turn the tables and it's just the same.

If an asian crackhead breaks into a house to commit a burglary and assaults the householder, who demographically is statistically more likely to be white; is it racially motivated of course not.

Such incidents happen all the time and to doubt that is just plain disingenuous.

He was.nt playing butthole surfers or a Chinesse crackhead breaking into a house. Just a man walking down the street in what was once a free country.

what if had been wearing a suicide vest and blew up those five pigs? what say you now muslim sympathizer?