Police aim guns at motorists going through checkpoint

I think you are correct about the angle. Of course most here won't see it that way.

So if it is an inch off that makes it OK. One minor flinch and it's moot.

Will citizens get a defense for assault because their weapon was pointed 1 or more inches from a direct line from the victim. An unloaded weapon doesn't even count.

This is total amazing logic to make the police state acceptable.

Spookybelle

Would that not be the more logical path to go down then simply blaming the law enforcement personal who are doing what they were hired to do?

Why do you keep saying things I have to respond to...

History has proven, and as we all learned with the Hague trials, just following orders is a piss pour excuse.

Its also a morally bankrupt one.

reply to post by benrl

Exactly, its disregarding the presumption of innocence and jumping to the reaction to a hostile.

Something else I've noticed is that the police are just as capable of
perceiving any situation while wearing the other guys shoes as we are.

That is to say
they are not obtuse to how this is perceived by the people, yet excuses
are made for them as if they are. When it's their damn job to observe such
factors. They know damn well what we think of them for enforcing these
policies. Policies that throw fuel on the fire. So what's up with that ?
Is my question. Then the day they do get over ran they'll be sittin around
cry'in like big babies. Like every other time they get thier asses kicked.

What amazes me here is that there is only one person here who seems to be sticking up for these cops.

Yet in other threads recently they were everywhere. Why the change? Cuz there is a picture this time? Ah, I see.

As for me, I have already heard of enough cases, seen enough atrocities, that I no longer afford the cops benefit of the doubt. This is just how they are, folks.

There were plenty of folks in Germany apologizing for the Nazis. Please keep that in mind moving forward. The installment of a Police State is a gradual process. It isn't put in place over night. But it is happening in front of our eyes.

reply to post by JayinAR

But it is happening in front of our eyes.

But why is Five O so willing Jay ?
They all seem to welcome this Nazi takeover
of america and for the life of me, I thought
they would be the ones most patriotic. But
thier mentallity doesn't seem to miss a beat
with what's happening.

This article is misleading...
These are not “checkpoints” these are “roadblocks” being used in a manhunt for an armed an dangerous suspect. Police have been using this method since I was a kid.

Using the word “checkpoint” misleads the reader into thinking that this is a random stop where people are being harassed by armed police, which is not the case. This is a roadblock going into or out of a cordoned off area where they know the suspect is located.

reply to post by randyvs


Social Engineering my man. It is all carefully coordinated and the cops feel they are just taking the appropriate measures to stay safe.

That's why they're now allowed to shoot people dead in the streets and only get two weeks paid vacation and visits to the shrink.

The police state can't actually PUNISH their own thugs.
But you?? Haha. Dare speak out of line to a cop with a gun drawn. It'll be the last damn thing you ever do.

Spookybelle
reply to post by benrl

 

Its nothing new.

How many people did Lincoln have arrested, with no proof, because someone thought they posed a political threat to his presidency?

Seriously, this type of action has always existed and throwing up a few pictures will not erase that fact. Is it right? Of course not, but it has never progressed beyond what it is.

Protest the actions but people who try to insinuate that the problem is getting worse are being disingenuous.

This is EXTREMELY NEW! Just a couple decades ago, watching the news, there were enquiries over and over in the US and Canada, nearly every single time a police officer drew a weapon or any form of lethal force was used.

This is 10000% different.

reply to post by JayinAR


Ah, I see Defcon chimed in with a good point.

Social Engineering my man. It is all carefully coordinated and the cops feel they are just taking the appropriate measures to stay safe.

And the screening they do prolly plays a big part. All the right profiles.
Makes perfect sense.

defcon5
This article is misleading...
These are not “checkpoints” these are “roadblocks” being used in a manhunt for an armed an dangerous suspect. Police have been using this method since I was a kid.

Using the word “checkpoint” misleads the reader into thinking that this is a random stop where people are being harassed by armed police, which is not the case. This is a roadblock going into or out of a cordoned off area where they know the suspect is located.

Part of the 4th amendment was to defend from these types of unlimited infringements of our rights based on open warrants.

A real argument can be made for infringement of civil liberties in these type of cases, even a general threat is no excuse for throwing out the presumption of innocence and holding citizens at gun point.

Just because in a post 9-11 world those protections have been weakened and become "de facto" procedure does not make it right in any way shape or form.


ETA:

There is a reason the ACLU released an app to help people secretly record police on their phones, these are the cases that caused that.

Spookybelle
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

And what does the angle of their weapon actually have to do with anything?

Until people are being fired upon or beaten with them does it really matter if its pointed at you or the ground?

You have got to be kidding me? Have you ever been through any formal firearms safety training? Even a basic orientation course at the local range?

I'm not being snarky, I'm asking in a very serious way because plenty of folks read all these things and what you're asking just strikes me as so out of place and totally opposite the most basic firearms safety, that I am dumbstruck.

However, let me explain in clear terms, why it matters and it matters enormously. (aside from basic basic safe handling and proper procedure with any firearm, loaded or not)

On most firearms the firing pin never comes into contact with the primer of the round in the chamber, until you fire it. Obviously, that causes a small explosion, which ignites the powder and off it goes. The primer, as you may imagine, is exceptionally sensitive. Therefore, we really want to avoid contact with it...under pretty much any circumstances short of a deliberate discharge.

The AR-15/M-16 platform has one DOOZY of a flaw, as I see it. It's designed that way, so someone didn't see it that way, but opinions vary.



That is a primer from a round being CHAMBERED.....NOT FIRED in an AR-15 Rifle. It has what is referred to as a floating firing pin, which 'dimples' the primer upon chambering every round. My AR- did this as well and I saw it fist hand. It's one of the reasons I sold it without firing more than a few hundred rounds through it. More expensive ones and those produced by Colt in particular are supposed to have solved this by what I was just reading ...but would you like to ask the officer who has one pointed directly into your face, what the manufacturer and date of production is on that rifle he's holding?

Personally, I'd prefer they simply follow basic common sense in the safe handling of firearms and NOT point it inches from a person's face ...in what that picture shows for a situation with no apparent need or immediate threat indicated.

For the record though, and across every form of firearm training I've ever received? You NEVER...EVER..point a weapon at something you aren't fully willing and intending to completely destroy. That, for the record, carried into personal defense shooting as well as the CCW training.

benrl
Just because in a post 9-11 world those protections have been weakened and become "de facto" procedure does not make it right in any way shape or form.

Here are roadblocks in fiction from a couple of old movies:
Convoy (1978)


Go through more old TV and movies, you'll find the concept was well known back then.
Care to explain more about how this has only gone on since the 911 patriot act?

reply to post by defcon5


Benryl has been on point this whole thread! Let me explain........

Officers on another mission recognized Duran when they saw him riding a bike Friday at about 3 p.m., the chief said. They recognized him as being wanted for the parole violation.

A federal immigration agent attempted to chase Duran on foot, but was shot in the leg. Officials said Duran was armed with a handgun but wouldn't specify the type.

Duran quickly holed up in a nearby house, and a mother and child inside escaped out a side door.

SOURCE

So can anyone explain the reason for road blocks and innocent civilians have the police point the muzzle of a gun 6 inches from their face????

The police made a mountain out of mole hill if this report is factual. The perp was already holed up right? So why the intimidation?

JayinAR
What amazes me here is that there is only one person here who seems to be sticking up for these cops.

Yet in other threads recently they were everywhere. Why the change? Cuz there is a picture this time? Ah, I see.

I can only ever speak for myself on these things, but there is a very clear reason I post the way I do on this thread, yet very different on others relating to law enforcement.

Sometimes, they are so wrong, they deserve fired w/o pension, if not a pair of bracelets of their very own to go with it.

Other times, it's either not so clear or clearly not the 'fault' of law enforcement at all. Either situation comes up often enough. I post every thread I reply on as a case by case basis of what the specific facts are for that one very narrow story ..unless it's a story meant to encompass a whole group for some reason.

So..Indeed.. The cop here looks like he needs recycled through the CHP training for safely handling that high power rifle he has there ... other instances? Case by Case.

defcon5

benrl
Just because in a post 9-11 world those protections have been weakened and become "de facto" procedure does not make it right in any way shape or form.

Here are roadblocks in fiction from a couple of old movies:
Convoy (1978)

Go through more old TV and movies, you'll find the concept was well known back then.
Care to explain more about how this has only gone on since the 911 patriot act?

Because hollywood movies are a bastion of accuracy when it comes to police procedure and tactics...


I can pull literally 100's of clips of cops doing blatant crimes against the civil liberties of civilians all in the name of "justice" from movies from their start to now.

Does that make my point more valid or less? you tell me.

reply to post by seeker1963

They have someone pinned into an area, but not always an exact area, and they may not have eyes on them. That means the person can call a friend to come “rescue” them and drive them out of the police cordon, or they can jack someones car, hide in the back, and force them to drive them out of the area. The police will stop all vehicles going through that cordon to check that they are not assisting in his escaping the area either willingly or not.

benrl
Because hollywood movies are a bastion of accuracy when it comes to police procedure and tactics...

I'm not saying that they are, what I am saying is that the concept was around and in use long before 911. there is nothing new about cordoning off an area and searching all vehicles entering or leaving that cordon. That is not a “checkpoint”, its a “roadblock”, or a police “cordon”.

Spookybelle
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

And what does the angle of their weapon actually have to do with anything?

Until people are being fired upon or beaten with them does it really matter if its pointed at you or the ground?

it's improper handling of a gun, it's disrespectful and shows lack of discipline, that alone indicates instability and that they are people you shouldn't trust with your safety.

Roadblock, checkpoint, truck stop.. Whatever, there is no justification for cops to be putting their guns in the faces of un-armed civilians period. Can't believe people would sit there and try to justify this.