NSA monitored calls of 35 world leaders

reply to post by DelayedChristmas

It's being highlighted for 2 reasons. First, because the targets weren't diplomats or government sectors, but the LEADERS of other countries, in particular our allies.
And secondly, because it was a whistleblower who took the information public, rather than the government finding out about it and dealing with it in house.

reply to post by angelchemuel

I had remembered reading an article about that as well. Thanks for sharing. I think it's funny that the high tech spy agencies are reverting to low tech to keep their secrets.

reply to post by crimvelvet

It's good to see that I'm not the only one noticing people actually starting to listen to me. I've noticed that the general consensus around here is that something needs to be done, but nobody knows what, and most have given up doing anything about it except sitting back and complaining or preparing their underground bunkers. I think we need to push harder BEFORE it becomes a matter of revolution being the only way to fix things. And I think the key is getting people to understand and see what's going on.
I also agree that a leader is needed. Without one, people are just mulling around complaining and going "There's nothing we can do!" Someone is needed that's a little mainstream, someone the people can get behind, but most importantly someone who the general public does not automatically dismiss as a tinfoil hat wearing nutjob. Ron Paul MIGHT have worked, but I think we need someone younger, and after his 180 on drone strikes I don't think his kid Rand is right for the job.
So what else have we got left in the barrel?

MrSpad
Allies always spy on each other just when they get caught it is normally kept quite and the person sent back home.

This. Definitely this. You go to France as a contractor to a major US aerospace company, and I guarantee you DGSE will either approach you or go through your hotel room and plant bugs, try to get into your laptop and phone.

So will BND and ABIN. Not QUITE as aggressively as DGSE, but they will. DGSE is right up there with FSB with following you around and going through your stuff.

Not that NSA is the only one doing it - I'd say half the staff at the embassy in Moscow are either SOCOM or some TLA wonk overtly or covertly. There was an SF Alpha that was a "cook" in Moscow who was legendary for being able to dump the KGB tails and meet with subversives and/or do SIGINT and ELINT all over town, it took them over a year to finally catch him with the goods on him and PNG his butt. These days he works for one of the commercial space companies, either Blue Origin or SpaceX.

eta: Even creepier than going through their phone calls and emails, we have crews of people who apparently spend their days getting the personal goods on government officials, major corporate heads, celebs and whatnot of other countries. And then writing up detailed analyses of their behavior, quirks, peccadilloes, foibles, likes, dislikes, family problems, financial problems and whatnot so you know what leverage to apply to them in the field.

Long ago and far away when I was in the more interesting phase of my Army career, we used to get these reports on people we might be dealing with. They are a blast. WAY better than reality tv.

reply to post by crimvelvet

China and Russia are not stupid by any means. I've kept up with the formation of BRICS, and now they're working on their own internet. I've also noted that I haven't seen any Snoweden releases regarding them, so it makes me wonder how far the NSA has managed to get into them. I also see the highly political maneuvering Russia made by giving Snowden asylum there.
With all the NSA stuff coming out now, how can we really expect any other country to stay on our side rather than signing on to the BRICS thing?

And yeah, after re-reading the article on the whole Norway gunman thing. It states the youngest was 16, so this was no summer camp getaway. That whole affair stinks as badly as some of the recent stuff that's gone down over here...

reply to post by beezzer

I agree. From an article about countries going to the UN to try and stop the NSA spying:

"This is an example of the very worst aspects of the Snowden disclosures," a former defense official with deep experience in NATO, told The Cable, referring to former NSA contractor Edward Snowden. "It will be very difficult for the US to dig out of this, although we will over time. The short term costs in credibility and trust are enormous."

thecable.foreignpolicy.com...
I don't know which is worse, the fact they think the fact that the political fallout from getting their hand caught in the cookie jar is the worst of it (which implies they think there is no wrongdoing in their actions,) or the fact that the governments who worked WITH the NSA are trying to impose a UN resolution based in this (from the same article)

Although the Germans have not indicated such a move is in the works, they do have a game plan for making their surveillance complaints heard. The International Covenant on Political and Civil Rights was written in 1966 and came into force in 1976, decades before the internet transformed the way people communicate around the world. A provision in the international covenant, Article 17, says "no one shall be subjected to arbitrary or unlawful interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to unlawful attacks on his honor and reputation." It also states that "everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks."
"The covenant was formulated at a time when the internet didn't exist," said a diplomat familiar with the negotiations. "Everyone has the right to privacy and the goal is to this resolution is to apply those protections to online communications."

So it's okay to help spy on their own people, but once THEIR phones get hacked, it's "We demand our right to privacy!" !?!

reply to post by MrSpad

Actually, the "shocked" governments are doing is this:
thecable.foreignpolicy.com...
Whether it will do anything or not, and whether it's all politcal theater or not remains to be seen. But see my reply to Beezer for my stance on this little ploy of theirs.

reply to post by QuantumCypher


Well, If Merkel has been that cut off from the operations of her own Security Services, perhaps Germany has much much larger problems than just the NSA snooping up people's skirts.

Germany domestic security agency sharing data with NSA: Report

Key Partners': Secret Links Between Germany and the NSA

Germany' s Spies Have NSA Envy: Currently Working To Build Their Own Comprehensive Snooping System

New revelations: Germany sends 'massive amounts' of phone, email data to NSA

I understand that Germany's Security Service has also been invaluable to NSA operations in the monitoring of Afghanistan. Don't ask me quite how...I don't get all that myself, but there is a lot of credit seemingly given to the BND/BfV for that coverage and more.

I hate what the NSA has seemingly done with Americans. What they've done outside the US? Well, hate every Security Service of a major power in the world. They all do the same, IF they can manage it, and many do much worse than our high tech toys do.

It doesn't make it right...but it makes some of the outrage just as political as a stump speech, IMO.

Man, the NSA is worse than a jealous girlfriend.