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Has anybody on this forum read up on Seth (of Jane Roberts fame)?
page: 6share:
NoRulesAllowed
kauskau
one of the best sources humanity ever had. sadly people were not ready for it. and when even the people on ats dont see that there is still not much hope
Weren't the SETH books biiiiiiig back then and actually one major driving force for the "NewAge" generation...and still a ton (almost any!) "new" book on spirituality etc. somehow echos the SETH books. So you might actually underestimate the impact the books really had (and still have). Just my $0.02
Exactly, and well put. It may be that the Seth books are just coming into their own now, that they are meant for this era as well. Historically they are very important, and currently they ought to be enjoying a revival. Kind of like Robert Anton Wilson's work in a different way will become much better known within 25 or 50 years.
reply to post by brazenalderpadrescorpio
Hi, and it looks like you picked a great thread topic and are hosting it very well.
I don't think Jane Roberts ever thought of herself as a medium. She knew, and Seth discussed, that he was her oversoul, and at times Seth's own oversoul (it's turtles all the way down) took over the vocal duties and presented data.
Someone mentioned that people he knew who read Seth never grew past a certain stage. The Seth material is not a complete pathway to consciousness or perception, it more or less describes what it's like being there. What the "science" or terrain looks like at certain points. I haven't read Seth in years, and will try to do so soon. But of course the pathways to reach certain stuff are available. Just have to find them, for one thing. Then lots of hours.
Hi, and it looks like you picked a great thread topic and are hosting it very well.
I don't think Jane Roberts ever thought of herself as a medium. She knew, and Seth discussed, that he was her oversoul, and at times Seth's own oversoul (it's turtles all the way down) took over the vocal duties and presented data.
Someone mentioned that people he knew who read Seth never grew past a certain stage. The Seth material is not a complete pathway to consciousness or perception, it more or less describes what it's like being there. What the "science" or terrain looks like at certain points. I haven't read Seth in years, and will try to do so soon. But of course the pathways to reach certain stuff are available. Just have to find them, for one thing. Then lots of hours.
onehuman
I am answering this on my phone so I must keep it short, but yes I am well aware of the "Seth" books. They have made quite an impression on my life and how I deal with things. I feel fortunate that I was able to read them when I was young.
Me too. I started reading them when I was 19 and I'm 48 now. They are the top drawer of all channeled material as far as I'm concerned. Seth explains how all such material, even his, will be distorted as it translated into language. It is colored by the belief systems of the person transmitting it, by the times in which they live in, by the medium's ability, etc. And I think this throws a lot of light on all sorts of channeled material.
But I agree, I feel lucky that I read this first. I find the entire case of Jane Roberts and the Seth material to be very self explanatory. Jane and Rob "tested" Seth for an entire year, reasoning that if he was supposed to be this entity that knew things, he should be able to perform certain psychic abilities, etc., and he passed wonderfully.
And remember, this was at a time when no one was "channeling" in this way, at least not so well publicized. The concepts in the Seth material are very empowering as far as I'm concerned. The material on probable realities, (alternate times etc) is particularly mind blowing.
antoinemarionette
reply to post by brazenalderpadrescorpio
Yes! And I too am glad!
The thing is, the vast majority of people with metaphysical interests greatly discredit channeling. Any book, text, or recording that is channeled they considered to be fake or fraudulent. It is tremendously narrow minded in my humble opinion, because they discredit it without listening to it or reading it. If they would actually explore it they would have second thoughts big time!
I learned so much from the Seth books, I feel they really gave me a tremendous head start in pursuing other texts, ideas and perspectives, for many of the themes presented were echoed in many, many other texts. For me that is veritable proof of its solid foundation.
I get frustrated with people's reactions you describe, but on another level, I don't blame them. If I hadn't read the Seth books first, I could have possibly reacted similarly. Much channeled material today is simply over the top and does sound ridiculous.
One thing I think that has happened is that people are taught to "channel consciously" and not "go under" during the process. Thus people start to trust anything that comes into their conscious mind and call it "channeling." And as Seth said, many times, people forget that whatever comes through anyone is always colored and distorted by them to a degree, some greater than others.
For my own purposes though, if a channeled entity can prove psychic abilities, which on many occasions they have, I don't see why a logical minded person wouldn't be more interested.
reply to post by Aleister
I really like what you said about Seth not being a complete pathway. I think that certain people are getting confused and think it's comparable to a religion, whether it's a pathway to get saved or a pathway to greater understanding. Seth definitely did describe other realities. I especially cherished when he described his own reality.
I think it's important to realize that Seth emphasized that "you had to die many times to experience his reality." And that's why I would not agree with anyone who says that anything like enlightenment can be achieved in 30 days or however short a span of time that the person said. I think that anyone who would achieve enlightenment in that short amount of time would perhaps already have been able to achieve it no matter what method they tried just because they were already ready for it, and primed for it through the experienced gained in other lifetimes.
I personally would judge the person who was arguing with me about enlightenment the same way he was judging his friends and say that the attitude that I sensed from him did not bespeak a person who was in any way mature enough to be at any level of true enlightenment. It might seem harsh to criticize him in that manner, but that's just what I sensed.
While I think that Seth's philosophy was not a complete pathway, he did outline certain ways to perceive his reality. But you are right in saying that a whole system of methods was not something that he emphasized. I believe that the reason he did not emphasize a whole system is because his mission was greater than just emphasizing a systematized way of gaining enlightenment. I believe that his mission was not even something that can be encapsulated in one small paragraph. I think that his mission was to open up vistas to a much greater reality. Even if that reality was practically many lifetimes away, the point is that it was something to aspire to and start working on now. In one book he many times would repeat: "The point of power is now."
The bottom line is that if someone were to piece together every point of information that Seth holds in his books, one could at least be on the way to perceiving the reality that he was in, the ones that he described and more.
I really like what you said about Seth not being a complete pathway. I think that certain people are getting confused and think it's comparable to a religion, whether it's a pathway to get saved or a pathway to greater understanding. Seth definitely did describe other realities. I especially cherished when he described his own reality.
I think it's important to realize that Seth emphasized that "you had to die many times to experience his reality." And that's why I would not agree with anyone who says that anything like enlightenment can be achieved in 30 days or however short a span of time that the person said. I think that anyone who would achieve enlightenment in that short amount of time would perhaps already have been able to achieve it no matter what method they tried just because they were already ready for it, and primed for it through the experienced gained in other lifetimes.
I personally would judge the person who was arguing with me about enlightenment the same way he was judging his friends and say that the attitude that I sensed from him did not bespeak a person who was in any way mature enough to be at any level of true enlightenment. It might seem harsh to criticize him in that manner, but that's just what I sensed.
While I think that Seth's philosophy was not a complete pathway, he did outline certain ways to perceive his reality. But you are right in saying that a whole system of methods was not something that he emphasized. I believe that the reason he did not emphasize a whole system is because his mission was greater than just emphasizing a systematized way of gaining enlightenment. I believe that his mission was not even something that can be encapsulated in one small paragraph. I think that his mission was to open up vistas to a much greater reality. Even if that reality was practically many lifetimes away, the point is that it was something to aspire to and start working on now. In one book he many times would repeat: "The point of power is now."
The bottom line is that if someone were to piece together every point of information that Seth holds in his books, one could at least be on the way to perceiving the reality that he was in, the ones that he described and more.
Octave
reply to post by brazenalderpadrescorpio
It appears in The Nature of Personal Reality
She actually did have an interest in new age thoughts and ideas and experimented with the Ouija board quite a lot. She was a poet and her writing style I found to be a bit flat unlike Seth whose writing style was more rounded and full of humor.
Her writing style felt to me at least more intellectual whereas Seth's felt more geared toward the man down the street. They were very, very different styles and personalities.
This is not true about her having had an interest or experimenting with the Ouija board before Seth. She was sitting down to write one day and had a very intense spiritual experience which she couldn't explain, and from it, decided to write a book where she would experiment with psychic/occult phenomena. One of these was the Ouija board, upon which she immediately ended up talking to Seth through it. Before this, she had no interest and knew nothing about any of it.
reply to post by thebtheb
Thanks for your comments. They are very informative and give an insight into the process of channelling. It's interesting to hear all the things that we've learned on this path towards the truth.
Thanks for your comments. They are very informative and give an insight into the process of channelling. It's interesting to hear all the things that we've learned on this path towards the truth.
reply to post by thebtheb
That's what I thought as well, but wasn't sure. Thanks for the confirmation.
Edit: I should've added that I was referring to your comment about her prior New Age interest. Sorry.
That's what I thought as well, but wasn't sure. Thanks for the confirmation.
Edit: I should've added that I was referring to your comment about her prior New Age interest. Sorry.
edit on bSat, 26 Oct 2013 22:04:38 -0500pm298America/Chicago10pmSaturday26America/Chicago by brazenalderpadrescorpio because: (no reason
given)
brazenalderpadrescorpio
reply to post by mistersmith
Trust me, Seth can be hard work. There's a part in The Nature of the Psyche (I'm not sure if you were the one who was reading that one) where he asks you to do certain associative exercises. Those exercises are hard work; I have to revisit most of them.
Yeah, it's not a walk in the park sometimes.
edit on bSat, 26 Oct 2013 14:58:41 -0500pm298America/Chicago10pmSaturday26America/Chicago by brazenalderpadrescorpio because: (no reason given)
The hardest book I think is Unknown reality (any volume!). That's like university metaphysics, even for Seth which was already super advanced calculus to begin with!
brazenalderpadrescorpio
reply to post by thebtheb
That's what I thought as well, but wasn't sure. Thanks for the confirmation.
Edit: I should've added that I was referring to your comment about her prior New Age interest. Sorry.
edit on bSat, 26 Oct 2013 22:04:38 -0500pm298America/Chicago10pmSaturday26America/Chicago by brazenalderpadrescorpio because: (no reason given)
An interesting book is "The Seth Material" which is written by Jane, with lots of Seth excerpts, but it tells the story of how it all happened, her reactions, Rob's reactions, etc.
By the way, I just tried, but I can't find a single reference to Jane being a "raging alcoholic." I doubted it to begin with since I've really
immersed myself in all the books, have been on several discussion lists over the years containing people that knew her, and I Have never once heard
she had problems with alcohol. I'm not saying it's not true, but I don't see any evidence of it.
Before I log off for the night, I thought I would post some unpublished Seth that I had sent to me years and years ago from someone in England who
somehow had it. I sent it to all the people on a Seth mailing list years ago, and I believe it may be in the one of the 10 books called "Seth, the
early sessions."
But I'm posting it here because it's one of the VERY FEW times he ever referred to UFOs in such detail and former civilizations in such detail.
Enjoy:
Unpublished Seth on Sound and Great Pyramid
604th Session January 12, 1972 9:19 p.m. Wednesday
(Notes on an abortive projection attempt; I lay down for a nap after supper on Friday evening, Jan 14. I used the bedroom in apartment four. We had been working long hours on our own, and I had been putting in overtime at Artistic, so I was quite tired. I dozed for a few moments upon laying down, then came awake to find myself with the unmistakable feeling of floating halfway to the ceiling of the bedroom.)
(The sensation was quite definite, and quiet strange. For I still felt my body against the bed - I lay face up, covered by a blanket - as though my body was pasted to the bed. In other words, I floated in the air, bed and all, quite pleasantly. There was no fear or panic. Instead I hoped to continue the experience into something greater.)
(Shortly after I became aware, Jane began to do the dishes. The geography of our kitchen in apartment four is such that noise can evidently seep through a closet wall in the bedroom and so is quite easily heard. Jane made noise handling the dishes, I heard the water run, etc. In addition she turned on her radio. Even though she kept it on low volume, I heard it. I told myself these things would not distract me. I lay without moving a muscle, trying to encourage further developments without straining. The floating free sensation continued but I wasn’t able to develop it further.)
(I nearly always use suggestions re projection when I lay down. I believe my tiredness tonight helped the state. Now I sent Jane messages that she would leave me undistracted, but nothing developed. The feeling lasted for well over a minute, I would estimate; finally it began to diminish or fade out, and I fell asleep again. Upon writing this, I now recall that immediately upon laying down I drifted into a rather complete, if brief, dreaming state - but I cannot recall the dream. But I went form the dream into the projection.)
(Peculiarly, I had no feeling of being detached from my physical body - that is, I didn’t feel I was bodiless, hovering above it; I had taken the bed up with me, you see. I felt the bed and I were several feet above the floor. I wanted to try turning over astrally, and I wanted to try reaching up toward the ceiling astrally, to see if I could touch it. I didn’t move at all, though, because of the noise form the kitchen. I managed to hold the state while considering the kitchen interference, but was concerned lest any attempt at movement on my part would break the spell entirely.)
(The session this evening, Wednesday, developed rather spontaneously out of several factors that combined almost effortlessly. The recent Sumari developments involving both of us played a part. So did my studying of photos of Baalbek, the first century AD Roman ruins in Lebanon. The enormity of the stones in these buildings left me amazed; I didn’t see how blocks weighing 1200 tons could be moved without machinery, let alone fitted into place over twenty feet up on foundations, etc. The pictures were truly awe-inspiring. I came across them in one of the books on ancient history that Shirley Bickford, one of Jane's students, brought for us to consult on the very ancient civilization, Sumeria, in Mesopotamia, from 4000 to 2000 BC, I believe without consulting dates.)
(Jane and I hadn’t believed there was any connection between Jane’s Sumarian development, and Sumer, since the Sumari, as explained in recent sessions, had never been physical in our terms. Tonight’s session went into this, to our surprise.)
(Shortly after supper this evening, Tom Milligan, a former student of Jane’s brought us a copy of Saga Magazine for Dec. 71. It contained an article by our friend Otto Binder, entitled “UFO's Own Earth and All Mankind!” This article touched upon many ideas we are interested in, and quoted astrophysicist Fred Hoyle, among others, re the ownership of the race idea. We spend some time discussing it. We had no opinion particularly, beyond remembering that according to Seth the whole question of the race of man and its origins, and doubts concerning theories of evolution, was vastly more complicated than was generally believed. Seth’s ideas of time give us quite a different approach to these ideas also.)
(In the NY Times tonight I read an article, with pictures, of the Mars probe currently underway by our Mariner spacecraft. Dr. Carl Sagan of Cornell University was quoted in the article. Dr. Sagan was also quoted in Otto’s article, regarding the ancient Sumerian - Akkadian legends and UFO’s, too our surprise. The question that has always bothered me is brought up - why does our history only go back five or 6000 years ago, when Homo Sapiens appeared some 50 000 years ago as an established species?)
(In addition, I have always doubted the block and tackle idea used in constructing such massive, enormous wonders as Baalbek. With this goes my questions concerning the ability of sculptors to do the marvelously intricate carving adorning all of these buildings, on such an enormous scale. I have always wondered just how it was possible, with the few tools then available, according to our history, to do this work. It seems beyond the tools scope. I would delight in seeing it duplicated today, using identical stone, tools, etc., with time trials.)
(Thus, all of these points came together tonight and resulted in the session. In the beginning Jane’s pace was rather slow, her eyes closed often. The session was held in her study in apartment four.)
Seth: “Now good evening.”
Rob: “Good evening, Seth.””
Seth: “The message for tonight is: you are not owned.
“Now, your human stock did not all originate solely from your planet. I never told you that it did. In that respect your ancestry is indeed varied. Some of the information given in my own book, by inference, should have made that clear.”
(By coincidence - Seth’s book has just come back to us from Prentice Hall for us to go over the copy editor’s suggestions before it is set in galleys, which we will see in April. But we haven’t had time to reread the manuscript.)
Seth: “Evolution, as it is thought of, had many different aspects in those terms. There were three or four beginning points. Do you follow me?”
Rob: “Yes.”
Seth: “There were then visits from others in other planetary systems. In that regard this is quite natural. Your own relative isolation is far from the average. The legends, many of them, therefore, were of course chronicles of quite legitimate physical events, describing phenomena for example for which natives had no adequate vocabulary. They were forced to describe what they saw by making comparisons with objects and events already familiar to them.”
But I'm posting it here because it's one of the VERY FEW times he ever referred to UFOs in such detail and former civilizations in such detail.
Enjoy:
Unpublished Seth on Sound and Great Pyramid
604th Session January 12, 1972 9:19 p.m. Wednesday
(Notes on an abortive projection attempt; I lay down for a nap after supper on Friday evening, Jan 14. I used the bedroom in apartment four. We had been working long hours on our own, and I had been putting in overtime at Artistic, so I was quite tired. I dozed for a few moments upon laying down, then came awake to find myself with the unmistakable feeling of floating halfway to the ceiling of the bedroom.)
(The sensation was quite definite, and quiet strange. For I still felt my body against the bed - I lay face up, covered by a blanket - as though my body was pasted to the bed. In other words, I floated in the air, bed and all, quite pleasantly. There was no fear or panic. Instead I hoped to continue the experience into something greater.)
(Shortly after I became aware, Jane began to do the dishes. The geography of our kitchen in apartment four is such that noise can evidently seep through a closet wall in the bedroom and so is quite easily heard. Jane made noise handling the dishes, I heard the water run, etc. In addition she turned on her radio. Even though she kept it on low volume, I heard it. I told myself these things would not distract me. I lay without moving a muscle, trying to encourage further developments without straining. The floating free sensation continued but I wasn’t able to develop it further.)
(I nearly always use suggestions re projection when I lay down. I believe my tiredness tonight helped the state. Now I sent Jane messages that she would leave me undistracted, but nothing developed. The feeling lasted for well over a minute, I would estimate; finally it began to diminish or fade out, and I fell asleep again. Upon writing this, I now recall that immediately upon laying down I drifted into a rather complete, if brief, dreaming state - but I cannot recall the dream. But I went form the dream into the projection.)
(Peculiarly, I had no feeling of being detached from my physical body - that is, I didn’t feel I was bodiless, hovering above it; I had taken the bed up with me, you see. I felt the bed and I were several feet above the floor. I wanted to try turning over astrally, and I wanted to try reaching up toward the ceiling astrally, to see if I could touch it. I didn’t move at all, though, because of the noise form the kitchen. I managed to hold the state while considering the kitchen interference, but was concerned lest any attempt at movement on my part would break the spell entirely.)
(The session this evening, Wednesday, developed rather spontaneously out of several factors that combined almost effortlessly. The recent Sumari developments involving both of us played a part. So did my studying of photos of Baalbek, the first century AD Roman ruins in Lebanon. The enormity of the stones in these buildings left me amazed; I didn’t see how blocks weighing 1200 tons could be moved without machinery, let alone fitted into place over twenty feet up on foundations, etc. The pictures were truly awe-inspiring. I came across them in one of the books on ancient history that Shirley Bickford, one of Jane's students, brought for us to consult on the very ancient civilization, Sumeria, in Mesopotamia, from 4000 to 2000 BC, I believe without consulting dates.)
(Jane and I hadn’t believed there was any connection between Jane’s Sumarian development, and Sumer, since the Sumari, as explained in recent sessions, had never been physical in our terms. Tonight’s session went into this, to our surprise.)
(Shortly after supper this evening, Tom Milligan, a former student of Jane’s brought us a copy of Saga Magazine for Dec. 71. It contained an article by our friend Otto Binder, entitled “UFO's Own Earth and All Mankind!” This article touched upon many ideas we are interested in, and quoted astrophysicist Fred Hoyle, among others, re the ownership of the race idea. We spend some time discussing it. We had no opinion particularly, beyond remembering that according to Seth the whole question of the race of man and its origins, and doubts concerning theories of evolution, was vastly more complicated than was generally believed. Seth’s ideas of time give us quite a different approach to these ideas also.)
(In the NY Times tonight I read an article, with pictures, of the Mars probe currently underway by our Mariner spacecraft. Dr. Carl Sagan of Cornell University was quoted in the article. Dr. Sagan was also quoted in Otto’s article, regarding the ancient Sumerian - Akkadian legends and UFO’s, too our surprise. The question that has always bothered me is brought up - why does our history only go back five or 6000 years ago, when Homo Sapiens appeared some 50 000 years ago as an established species?)
(In addition, I have always doubted the block and tackle idea used in constructing such massive, enormous wonders as Baalbek. With this goes my questions concerning the ability of sculptors to do the marvelously intricate carving adorning all of these buildings, on such an enormous scale. I have always wondered just how it was possible, with the few tools then available, according to our history, to do this work. It seems beyond the tools scope. I would delight in seeing it duplicated today, using identical stone, tools, etc., with time trials.)
(Thus, all of these points came together tonight and resulted in the session. In the beginning Jane’s pace was rather slow, her eyes closed often. The session was held in her study in apartment four.)
Seth: “Now good evening.”
Rob: “Good evening, Seth.””
Seth: “The message for tonight is: you are not owned.
“Now, your human stock did not all originate solely from your planet. I never told you that it did. In that respect your ancestry is indeed varied. Some of the information given in my own book, by inference, should have made that clear.”
(By coincidence - Seth’s book has just come back to us from Prentice Hall for us to go over the copy editor’s suggestions before it is set in galleys, which we will see in April. But we haven’t had time to reread the manuscript.)
Seth: “Evolution, as it is thought of, had many different aspects in those terms. There were three or four beginning points. Do you follow me?”
Rob: “Yes.”
Seth: “There were then visits from others in other planetary systems. In that regard this is quite natural. Your own relative isolation is far from the average. The legends, many of them, therefore, were of course chronicles of quite legitimate physical events, describing phenomena for example for which natives had no adequate vocabulary. They were forced to describe what they saw by making comparisons with objects and events already familiar to them.”
Part two:
(Jane’s pace, as Seth, was now quite a bit faster.) “Some such visitors, in your terms, were more evolved than others. All, however, would appear as superhuman in contrast to those civilizations that encountered them. There were some deliberate experiments, that were in fact far more dangerous to the experimenters, always in which the experimenters tried, in one way or another, tired to advance man’s knowledge.
(9:29) “It is not nearly as simple as that, however. There is not a one-line development. By the time that feasible inter-system space travel is practical, the psychic abilities are developed to a very high degree. One is necessary for the other. Therefore, it became much more feasible to approach earthmen during their dream state, when their natural fear reactions were somewhat minimized, and where the danger to the visitors was far less.”
(It was so hot in the room that I asked Seth to wait while I turned the heat off. I also opened a kitchen window. Jane sat quietly in trance.)
Seth: “Out of body encounters were used as a matter of course. The visitor could appear and disappear then without fear of pursuit. Civilizations were often warned in advance of natural disasters that were apparent to the visitors with their greater viewpoint.
“Such warnings were either given in the dream state of the earthmen, for the reasons given or often in some secluded place, for often the visitors would be attacked. During these eras, in your terms, the speakers often acted as go-betweens. Often warnings of disaster were not followed. Some warnings were misunderstood, then, as punishment by the gods of ‘moral misdoing.’
(9:36) “The whole moral code idea was originally tailored for the current scene as it was encountered, told in terms that the natives could understand.
“The pyramids, the huge boulders etched out (I think Seth refers here to Baalbek; I didn’t interrupt to ask.) All of this was done in one way or another through the use of, a knowledge of, both coordination points in space (described by Seth in his own book) and the use of sound. (Also described to some degree.) There were instruments that released sound, and directed it in the same way, say, that a laser beam does with light.
“Drawings of some of these exist in primitive Sumerian cave renditions, but the drawings are misinterpreted, the instrument is taken for another. No one knows how to use the instruments. There are a few in existence, in your terms.”
(The Sumerians were a pre-Semitic race inhabiting the lower Euphrates valley; their empire dated from about the 4th millennium BC. They were probably the Biblical Shinar. Their country was called Sumer, etc.)
Seth: “The Sumarians (spelled) left the memory of their existence in the Sumerian culture (spelled. This is the connection Jane and I hadn’t believed existed.) They initiated it, though they did not direct all of its activities, nor were they responsible for the distortions of their teachings that often resulted. There is a difference then between Sumarian and the culture in the books. Your Sumarian were behind the culture - they initiated that particular civilization.
“I will be clear. Your Sumarian showed earth people at that time how to communicate, how to initiate crafts, gave them all the fundamentals upon which a civilization then could be based. The Sumarians, your Sumarians however, were not of human stock at that time.
“Now. Your Sumarians have become human stock in those terms at other times. It is not a point of them trying to invade a native stock. They simply understood the nature of individual existences. Therefore, they are able to choose from various physical systems those in which they would like to have experience.
“They maintain their inner knowledge and integrity, and are born within any given system. They always use their native abilities and talents to help the system, working very strongly in psychic or creative endeavors.
“I do not necessarily mean that they are consciously aware of their affiliation. This is an individual matter. They are often inventors, always then involved with the initiation of new ideas or discoveries. All of this follows inner patterns that are specifically human in your terms. Humanity therefore has its own characteristics, and no ‘outside influence’ can go counter to these, but must work with them.
(9:50) “When it seems that great discoveries come, and then are lost through the ages, perhaps to be rediscovered, it simply means that man’s own nature was not in harmony with them, could not use them properly. Whenever aggressiveness became too misguided it automatically caused the loss of powers or discoveries that could be used to destroy the planet.
“This is a natural aspect, the self-protective principle that operates within earth life as you know it. On occasion discoveries were given before their time, and promptly lost, only to be rediscovered ages later.
“The problem comes when you try to categorize consciousness or being. The out of body state, in greater terms, is a far more natural state than in the body. You adopt and make a body. You do this now without even knowing that you do so, but a body can be made from the camouflage of any system, constructed easily when you know how to do it.
“Space suits are, therefore, and inadequate, clumsy memory of an inner ability to clothe the inner self with whatever camouflage is at hand, to merge with the elements of an environment in such a way that you become a living part of it.
“The Sumarians - Your Sumerians (spelled) did this when they initiated the culture spoken about in your books. Their sense of time is completely different, as however your own is innately. It is difficult to explain this, but keeping in touch with a civilization for several thousand years of your earth time, would entail perhaps the same amount of time and effort a man might take in his profession over a period of five to ten years, so the relativity of time is important in that context.
“You may take your break.”
(10:01 - Jane’s pace had been good, her trance good also. I had trouble in some instances deciding in the copy which spelling to use - Sumerian or Sumarian; in some instances my quick decisions were in error, I came to believe as I typed up this copy, so as can be seen I made changes. Jane read them over, and agrees that this copy is now as Seth meant it to be.)
(I told Jane at break that I needed a capsule definition of Sumari and she said that last night in ESP class Seth had commented that the Sumari was a “federation of consciousness.” We get the duplicated transcript of each ESP class the following week, so we do not have the record for last night’s ESP class session, for 1/11, yet.)
(During break I referred again to the photos of the massive ruins of Baalbek in one of the books Shirley Bickford lent us. I explained to Jane my feeling that the amazingly intricate stone carving, particularly the bas-relief work, seemed beyond the abilities of the hammer and chisel. Jane broke in to tell me that this carving was done by small instruments that used inaudible sound waves: these radiations softened the stone, she said, so the work could be performed. She didn’t know where this data came from. If from Seth it wasn’t obvious to her.)
(Jane’s pace, as Seth, was now quite a bit faster.) “Some such visitors, in your terms, were more evolved than others. All, however, would appear as superhuman in contrast to those civilizations that encountered them. There were some deliberate experiments, that were in fact far more dangerous to the experimenters, always in which the experimenters tried, in one way or another, tired to advance man’s knowledge.
(9:29) “It is not nearly as simple as that, however. There is not a one-line development. By the time that feasible inter-system space travel is practical, the psychic abilities are developed to a very high degree. One is necessary for the other. Therefore, it became much more feasible to approach earthmen during their dream state, when their natural fear reactions were somewhat minimized, and where the danger to the visitors was far less.”
(It was so hot in the room that I asked Seth to wait while I turned the heat off. I also opened a kitchen window. Jane sat quietly in trance.)
Seth: “Out of body encounters were used as a matter of course. The visitor could appear and disappear then without fear of pursuit. Civilizations were often warned in advance of natural disasters that were apparent to the visitors with their greater viewpoint.
“Such warnings were either given in the dream state of the earthmen, for the reasons given or often in some secluded place, for often the visitors would be attacked. During these eras, in your terms, the speakers often acted as go-betweens. Often warnings of disaster were not followed. Some warnings were misunderstood, then, as punishment by the gods of ‘moral misdoing.’
(9:36) “The whole moral code idea was originally tailored for the current scene as it was encountered, told in terms that the natives could understand.
“The pyramids, the huge boulders etched out (I think Seth refers here to Baalbek; I didn’t interrupt to ask.) All of this was done in one way or another through the use of, a knowledge of, both coordination points in space (described by Seth in his own book) and the use of sound. (Also described to some degree.) There were instruments that released sound, and directed it in the same way, say, that a laser beam does with light.
“Drawings of some of these exist in primitive Sumerian cave renditions, but the drawings are misinterpreted, the instrument is taken for another. No one knows how to use the instruments. There are a few in existence, in your terms.”
(The Sumerians were a pre-Semitic race inhabiting the lower Euphrates valley; their empire dated from about the 4th millennium BC. They were probably the Biblical Shinar. Their country was called Sumer, etc.)
Seth: “The Sumarians (spelled) left the memory of their existence in the Sumerian culture (spelled. This is the connection Jane and I hadn’t believed existed.) They initiated it, though they did not direct all of its activities, nor were they responsible for the distortions of their teachings that often resulted. There is a difference then between Sumarian and the culture in the books. Your Sumarian were behind the culture - they initiated that particular civilization.
“I will be clear. Your Sumarian showed earth people at that time how to communicate, how to initiate crafts, gave them all the fundamentals upon which a civilization then could be based. The Sumarians, your Sumarians however, were not of human stock at that time.
“Now. Your Sumarians have become human stock in those terms at other times. It is not a point of them trying to invade a native stock. They simply understood the nature of individual existences. Therefore, they are able to choose from various physical systems those in which they would like to have experience.
“They maintain their inner knowledge and integrity, and are born within any given system. They always use their native abilities and talents to help the system, working very strongly in psychic or creative endeavors.
“I do not necessarily mean that they are consciously aware of their affiliation. This is an individual matter. They are often inventors, always then involved with the initiation of new ideas or discoveries. All of this follows inner patterns that are specifically human in your terms. Humanity therefore has its own characteristics, and no ‘outside influence’ can go counter to these, but must work with them.
(9:50) “When it seems that great discoveries come, and then are lost through the ages, perhaps to be rediscovered, it simply means that man’s own nature was not in harmony with them, could not use them properly. Whenever aggressiveness became too misguided it automatically caused the loss of powers or discoveries that could be used to destroy the planet.
“This is a natural aspect, the self-protective principle that operates within earth life as you know it. On occasion discoveries were given before their time, and promptly lost, only to be rediscovered ages later.
“The problem comes when you try to categorize consciousness or being. The out of body state, in greater terms, is a far more natural state than in the body. You adopt and make a body. You do this now without even knowing that you do so, but a body can be made from the camouflage of any system, constructed easily when you know how to do it.
“Space suits are, therefore, and inadequate, clumsy memory of an inner ability to clothe the inner self with whatever camouflage is at hand, to merge with the elements of an environment in such a way that you become a living part of it.
“The Sumarians - Your Sumerians (spelled) did this when they initiated the culture spoken about in your books. Their sense of time is completely different, as however your own is innately. It is difficult to explain this, but keeping in touch with a civilization for several thousand years of your earth time, would entail perhaps the same amount of time and effort a man might take in his profession over a period of five to ten years, so the relativity of time is important in that context.
“You may take your break.”
(10:01 - Jane’s pace had been good, her trance good also. I had trouble in some instances deciding in the copy which spelling to use - Sumerian or Sumarian; in some instances my quick decisions were in error, I came to believe as I typed up this copy, so as can be seen I made changes. Jane read them over, and agrees that this copy is now as Seth meant it to be.)
(I told Jane at break that I needed a capsule definition of Sumari and she said that last night in ESP class Seth had commented that the Sumari was a “federation of consciousness.” We get the duplicated transcript of each ESP class the following week, so we do not have the record for last night’s ESP class session, for 1/11, yet.)
(During break I referred again to the photos of the massive ruins of Baalbek in one of the books Shirley Bickford lent us. I explained to Jane my feeling that the amazingly intricate stone carving, particularly the bas-relief work, seemed beyond the abilities of the hammer and chisel. Jane broke in to tell me that this carving was done by small instruments that used inaudible sound waves: these radiations softened the stone, she said, so the work could be performed. She didn’t know where this data came from. If from Seth it wasn’t obvious to her.)
Part 3
(Resume at 10:20)
Seth: “Now - Are you ready for me?
Rob: “Yes.”
Seth: “Basically - in your terms now - there is no such thing as an isolated, independent earth stock, in that consciousness did not suddenly erupt from the physical behavior or characteristics of your planet, or in any other.
“As you know, consciousness comes first, and then forms the physical materializations of it. Those consciousnesses who picked physical materialization choose to operate under certain conditions that then appear as the natural characteristics of a species to you.
“They accept certain characteristics, and while experiencing existence within them must follow along the roads they’ve chosen. Hence earlier I spoke of the natural bent of humanity, of all those, then, who choose existence within you particular planetary existence.
“Consciousness is not local, and it never was.
“You have always been Sumari. This simply means that your consciousness has certain bents of its own, interests and abilities and specializations. The word Sumari characterizes a certain kind of consciousness simply for means of identification in your terms.
“I told you once that there are clumps of consciousness. This does not mean that consciousness is not individual and separate, but that it also has a great ability to congregate, to reach out in affiliation, to share knowledge and experience, and to combine itself in ever-changing patterns while still retaining its basic identity and integrity.
(10:29) “To have explained this to you when we began our sessions would not have been possible. (Pause.) Now give us a moment. (Long pause.)
“Space and time are constructions of ideas. They do not appear physically, as say a table or a chair, yet they seem to define both a table and a chair, in that you cannot easily conceive of a piece of furniture, for example, existing except in the medium of space and time.
“The ideas of space and time are constructed in different ways in various systems. In some they appear as natural phenomena, for example as various classifications of objects, in some as variations of sound or light. You find it exceedingly difficult to consider existence at all without space and time, yet basically consciousness is independent of both.
“The ideas of space and time emerge only when consciousness adopts camouflage, only when it becomes wedded, in other words, with a physical type existence. Time and space are both creations of consciousness, in other words, and vehicles of its expression.
“Matter is a classification. As explained in my book, various levels of concentration can be used as platforms leading you out of focus, into other time schemes. Time is like color. You are merely focusing upon one hue. (10:39)
“Your present civilization and the ‘old’ Sumerian (spelled) civilization, exist at once, then simultaneously, but to speak to you about these I must use a time sequence you understand. If it were understood that these civilizations exist at once, then you would not be so surprised that they ‘were’ able to build structures that you cannot build in your now.
“Your now and their now exists now.
“In the present physical area in which it seems to you that a physical civilization once existed, that civilization still exists. You cannot meet it though you stand at the same spot, because of the ideas of time that separate you. The civilization in flower, and the ruins, coexist. The living ancient Sumerians pass the modern tourists without seeing them, even as the tourists walk in the middle of the old Sumerian marked places and see only ruins.
“Much of this could be explained in mathematical equations that presently escape you. Your own consciousness is contemporary with the ancient Sumerians (spelled) as well as with your current selves in your terms.
(10:46) “Think of countries existing simultaneously now on your planet. There are differences in language and culture, and it takes a certain amount of earth time to travel through space to visit them. In the same way all times exist at once, with their peculiar customs, and in your terms within the same space that you know.
“You have learned how to make roads through space, but not through time on a conscious level. There are intersections n time and space, however, that you have not recognized. I am speaking in your terms, hopefully to make this simpler. (Pause.) Times exist then as surely as places. You think of time as moving toward something, and of space as relatively stable.
“It does not occur to you then that you can get to times, as you can get to places. (Pause at 10:53.) All of this is highly difficult to explain. I do not mean for example that time, each moment, is a finished and done thing to be visited. While time is not moving in a particular direction, in your terms, each moment explodes outwards, or expands outward in all directions.
“Space and time as you understand them ripple through each other. They do not behave as you think they do, however. Presently you understand your existence only as it intrudes into three dimensions. Its own activity is in many other dimensions however.
“The Sumari, therefore, appear in or intrude into the three dimensional system from other dimensions.
“Now you may take a break or end the session as you prefer.”
(Resume at 10:20)
Seth: “Now - Are you ready for me?
Rob: “Yes.”
Seth: “Basically - in your terms now - there is no such thing as an isolated, independent earth stock, in that consciousness did not suddenly erupt from the physical behavior or characteristics of your planet, or in any other.
“As you know, consciousness comes first, and then forms the physical materializations of it. Those consciousnesses who picked physical materialization choose to operate under certain conditions that then appear as the natural characteristics of a species to you.
“They accept certain characteristics, and while experiencing existence within them must follow along the roads they’ve chosen. Hence earlier I spoke of the natural bent of humanity, of all those, then, who choose existence within you particular planetary existence.
“Consciousness is not local, and it never was.
“You have always been Sumari. This simply means that your consciousness has certain bents of its own, interests and abilities and specializations. The word Sumari characterizes a certain kind of consciousness simply for means of identification in your terms.
“I told you once that there are clumps of consciousness. This does not mean that consciousness is not individual and separate, but that it also has a great ability to congregate, to reach out in affiliation, to share knowledge and experience, and to combine itself in ever-changing patterns while still retaining its basic identity and integrity.
(10:29) “To have explained this to you when we began our sessions would not have been possible. (Pause.) Now give us a moment. (Long pause.)
“Space and time are constructions of ideas. They do not appear physically, as say a table or a chair, yet they seem to define both a table and a chair, in that you cannot easily conceive of a piece of furniture, for example, existing except in the medium of space and time.
“The ideas of space and time are constructed in different ways in various systems. In some they appear as natural phenomena, for example as various classifications of objects, in some as variations of sound or light. You find it exceedingly difficult to consider existence at all without space and time, yet basically consciousness is independent of both.
“The ideas of space and time emerge only when consciousness adopts camouflage, only when it becomes wedded, in other words, with a physical type existence. Time and space are both creations of consciousness, in other words, and vehicles of its expression.
“Matter is a classification. As explained in my book, various levels of concentration can be used as platforms leading you out of focus, into other time schemes. Time is like color. You are merely focusing upon one hue. (10:39)
“Your present civilization and the ‘old’ Sumerian (spelled) civilization, exist at once, then simultaneously, but to speak to you about these I must use a time sequence you understand. If it were understood that these civilizations exist at once, then you would not be so surprised that they ‘were’ able to build structures that you cannot build in your now.
“Your now and their now exists now.
“In the present physical area in which it seems to you that a physical civilization once existed, that civilization still exists. You cannot meet it though you stand at the same spot, because of the ideas of time that separate you. The civilization in flower, and the ruins, coexist. The living ancient Sumerians pass the modern tourists without seeing them, even as the tourists walk in the middle of the old Sumerian marked places and see only ruins.
“Much of this could be explained in mathematical equations that presently escape you. Your own consciousness is contemporary with the ancient Sumerians (spelled) as well as with your current selves in your terms.
(10:46) “Think of countries existing simultaneously now on your planet. There are differences in language and culture, and it takes a certain amount of earth time to travel through space to visit them. In the same way all times exist at once, with their peculiar customs, and in your terms within the same space that you know.
“You have learned how to make roads through space, but not through time on a conscious level. There are intersections n time and space, however, that you have not recognized. I am speaking in your terms, hopefully to make this simpler. (Pause.) Times exist then as surely as places. You think of time as moving toward something, and of space as relatively stable.
“It does not occur to you then that you can get to times, as you can get to places. (Pause at 10:53.) All of this is highly difficult to explain. I do not mean for example that time, each moment, is a finished and done thing to be visited. While time is not moving in a particular direction, in your terms, each moment explodes outwards, or expands outward in all directions.
“Space and time as you understand them ripple through each other. They do not behave as you think they do, however. Presently you understand your existence only as it intrudes into three dimensions. Its own activity is in many other dimensions however.
“The Sumari, therefore, appear in or intrude into the three dimensional system from other dimensions.
“Now you may take a break or end the session as you prefer.”
Rob: “We’ll take the break.”
(10:58. Jane’s trance had again been very good. Now she talked more about what she had said at last break, concerning the carving done on stone that had been softened by instruments employing sound. Only a very sophisticated instrument was used, she said, to soften the top layer of the stone so that it was “like frosting which could then be easily carved. The instrument might have done both the softening and the carving.”)
(But first of all,” she added as we continued to talk, “either that instrument or another one was used to isolate the top layer of the stone from the rest of it so that it wasn’t weakened.” We had been discussing the very intricate and extensive bas-relief carving pictured on the door frames and lintels of the ruins at Baalbek in this instance - not, say the in-the-round carving shown on columns, etc.)
(Ack-a-sond-a. This is my phonetic interpretation of a word Jane got regarding the instrument in question, whether from Seth or not she didn’t know, as at last break. The sound wasn’t audible to human ears. The instrument “sort of looked like - I can’t really do it - the shape I’m getting is of a very rough pistol shape...All you had to do was aim it. That was just for the small stuff.”)
(Resume at 11:15)
Seth: “Now. Matter was manipulated through sound. Some remnants of spaceships became temples. Some visitors were seen to die, and later seen again recovered, hence the Egyptians’ sureness that the individual survived death.
“Because of space travel a visitor might come as a young man, and return some 40 earth years later still appearing as a young man, leading to the idea of immortality and eternal youth of the gods.”
(Such effects would grow out of the operation of Einstein’s relativity postulates, etc.)
Seth: “The Olympic gods were perhaps the most amusing of man’s attempt to deify space travelers. Mixed in here strongly were the ideas of gods mating with earth women. (Pause.)
“In some respects the over enthusiastic use of the sound was responsible for the flood mentioned in the Bible, and other literature. It was for this reason that many attempts were made to warn against the impending disaster. The use of sound was important at various times in irrigating dry areas, quite literally by pulling water from a distance.
(11:22) “There were several characteristics that proved difficult, however. Literally, the sound traveled further often than was intended, causing consequences not planned upon. Great finesse was important. Sound was also used after irrigation to speed up the flowering of plants, and to facilitate transplantation to other areas. it was also utilized for medicinal purposes in operations, particularly in bone and brain operations.
“Verbal sounds were often stereotyped simply because the effect of sound was understood in its effects upon the body. Many ideas that are considered superstitious had a quite legitimate basis, therefore. Sound was used to locate one also, and to break someone down. It was also used to locate gas pockets.
“This is a difficult subject. For the movement of heavy tons of rock for example different techniques, using sound and precise mathematical calculations were necessary. Many civilizations grew and flourished in fertile areas simply because the people knew how to make them fertile and to keep them that way.
“Now you had better end the session. My heartiest regards to you both.”
Rob: “Thank you very much, Seth. It’s been extremely interesting. Good night.”
(11:32. Both of us were quite tired. There was much more data available, we knew, but we were to weary to get it.)
Rob’s Notes:
I read the 604th Session to ESP class on Tuesday, January 7, 1975. After I’d read some pages, George Rhodes held up a drawing he’d made of the ankh and asked Seth - who had come through - - if the sound instrument was the ankh, or at least shaped like it. Like a pistol if held sideways. The “barrel” would emit the sound ray and the mechanisms and controls would be in the short arms.
Seth told George he was quite right. The passage will be included in the class transcript for 1/7/75 that we’ll get next Tuesday, and I’ll try to remember to attach a copy of it to this session.
ankh (angk), n. (Egypt. ankh life, prosperity.) A T-shaped cross surmounted by a loop, used as a sacred emblem, symbolizing life; - called also crux ansata.
I have no scanner, but what follows is a drawing of a perfect, sideways T with a sort of loop after the top part of a T that is standing up. That is, draw a T, go to the middle where both lines meet, and draw a loop from that point upward to meet back at the starting, and then lie the T on its side. The arms of this instrument were the top part of the T, before the loop (where Christ’s arms were...sorry) and the barrel was the bottom part of the T.
605th Session January 17, 1972 9:24pm, Monday
(10:58. Jane’s trance had again been very good. Now she talked more about what she had said at last break, concerning the carving done on stone that had been softened by instruments employing sound. Only a very sophisticated instrument was used, she said, to soften the top layer of the stone so that it was “like frosting which could then be easily carved. The instrument might have done both the softening and the carving.”)
(But first of all,” she added as we continued to talk, “either that instrument or another one was used to isolate the top layer of the stone from the rest of it so that it wasn’t weakened.” We had been discussing the very intricate and extensive bas-relief carving pictured on the door frames and lintels of the ruins at Baalbek in this instance - not, say the in-the-round carving shown on columns, etc.)
(Ack-a-sond-a. This is my phonetic interpretation of a word Jane got regarding the instrument in question, whether from Seth or not she didn’t know, as at last break. The sound wasn’t audible to human ears. The instrument “sort of looked like - I can’t really do it - the shape I’m getting is of a very rough pistol shape...All you had to do was aim it. That was just for the small stuff.”)
(Resume at 11:15)
Seth: “Now. Matter was manipulated through sound. Some remnants of spaceships became temples. Some visitors were seen to die, and later seen again recovered, hence the Egyptians’ sureness that the individual survived death.
“Because of space travel a visitor might come as a young man, and return some 40 earth years later still appearing as a young man, leading to the idea of immortality and eternal youth of the gods.”
(Such effects would grow out of the operation of Einstein’s relativity postulates, etc.)
Seth: “The Olympic gods were perhaps the most amusing of man’s attempt to deify space travelers. Mixed in here strongly were the ideas of gods mating with earth women. (Pause.)
“In some respects the over enthusiastic use of the sound was responsible for the flood mentioned in the Bible, and other literature. It was for this reason that many attempts were made to warn against the impending disaster. The use of sound was important at various times in irrigating dry areas, quite literally by pulling water from a distance.
(11:22) “There were several characteristics that proved difficult, however. Literally, the sound traveled further often than was intended, causing consequences not planned upon. Great finesse was important. Sound was also used after irrigation to speed up the flowering of plants, and to facilitate transplantation to other areas. it was also utilized for medicinal purposes in operations, particularly in bone and brain operations.
“Verbal sounds were often stereotyped simply because the effect of sound was understood in its effects upon the body. Many ideas that are considered superstitious had a quite legitimate basis, therefore. Sound was used to locate one also, and to break someone down. It was also used to locate gas pockets.
“This is a difficult subject. For the movement of heavy tons of rock for example different techniques, using sound and precise mathematical calculations were necessary. Many civilizations grew and flourished in fertile areas simply because the people knew how to make them fertile and to keep them that way.
“Now you had better end the session. My heartiest regards to you both.”
Rob: “Thank you very much, Seth. It’s been extremely interesting. Good night.”
(11:32. Both of us were quite tired. There was much more data available, we knew, but we were to weary to get it.)
Rob’s Notes:
I read the 604th Session to ESP class on Tuesday, January 7, 1975. After I’d read some pages, George Rhodes held up a drawing he’d made of the ankh and asked Seth - who had come through - - if the sound instrument was the ankh, or at least shaped like it. Like a pistol if held sideways. The “barrel” would emit the sound ray and the mechanisms and controls would be in the short arms.
Seth told George he was quite right. The passage will be included in the class transcript for 1/7/75 that we’ll get next Tuesday, and I’ll try to remember to attach a copy of it to this session.
ankh (angk), n. (Egypt. ankh life, prosperity.) A T-shaped cross surmounted by a loop, used as a sacred emblem, symbolizing life; - called also crux ansata.
I have no scanner, but what follows is a drawing of a perfect, sideways T with a sort of loop after the top part of a T that is standing up. That is, draw a T, go to the middle where both lines meet, and draw a loop from that point upward to meet back at the starting, and then lie the T on its side. The arms of this instrument were the top part of the T, before the loop (where Christ’s arms were...sorry) and the barrel was the bottom part of the T.
605th Session January 17, 1972 9:24pm, Monday
Part 5:
At 9:20 p.m. Jane said she “felt Seth around. I get a word or two in my head, so I know he’s here.” We had just finished a snack. Jane had read the last session while she ate. Her pace was quite slow to begin.)
Seth: “Good evening.”
Rob: “Good evening, Seth.”
Seth: “Now. There are bleedthroughs, however, in space and time as you think of them. Remember, all times are simultaneous.
“Ideas are not dependent upon preexisting ideas. It is not true to say that man cannot conceive of something that is not already presented to his experience in one way or another. Ideas are free of space and time. Only your determined focus upon your time conceptions closes you off from many ideas that otherwise are available.
“In your terms the bleedthrough can occur in both past and present, and idea from today bleeding into the past or the other way around. The ideas will be actualized or put into a practical structure according to your attitude toward them.
“Some of the most sophisticated art is from the past. Bleedthroughs result in its being picked up in your present. Theoretically all of the information of so -called lost civilizations is quite available to you, as yours is to them. A closed mind will perceive none of this.
“In terms of experience humanity is working out its problems and challenges in 20th century terms and in the old Sumerian (spelled) civilization. You simply choose various kinds of organizational structures and different root assumptions - all however within the general root assumptions used for physical existence.
(Pause at 9:35 one of many.) “The old Sumerians (spelled) are singing their chants now at the same time that Ruburt is trying to translate them now in your terms. I wish I could impress upon you this great transparency of time so that you could experience its dimensions. In one way of speaking you have “not yet” developed the proficiency with sound that would now allow for the building of structures such as those we described in the last session.
(Those at Baalbek; the Pyramids, etc.) “Yet those structures exist even in your now, bleedthrough to make you think and, in other terms, to make you remember. Many physical structures have existed in your terms in the same space now occupied by your apartment house. Because of your root assumptions, however, it is not possible for you to perceive these, nor those that will come ‘after.’ Yet those structures exist as validly as the apartment house.
“They share certain coordinates. Knowing those coordinates would, of course, be very important., but the other realities would still remain nonrealities to you unless you changed your primary focus. When you do that there is no need to know what the coordinates are. The inner self is quite aware of all of this. It picks and chooses the information and data that is important to you, and makes it available according to your desires.
(9:42) “If you are greatly interested for example in history, then the inner self brings you the information you need from all of its sources. Under certain conditions you maybe propelled through the coordinates and find yourself in the era in which you are interested.
“The conscious intent, however, directs the kind of material you receive. If you have no interest in such things, no phenomena will occur strong enough to impress you in the waking state. If is very possible then to be building a civilization that, in your terms, you are now studying, to be interpreting ancient records that you yourself may have written, to be digging up roads that you yourself built.
(9:47) “This applies to your own historical time as well as to others. At other layers, of course, your civilization is already in the past, as in others your civilization does not yet exist. The bleedthroughs, however, mean that each people according to their characteristics, interests and activities, attract certain ideas both from the future and the past, and there is constant interaction. Because of this even the past as you think of it, as I told you, is never done and completed, but constantly changed by your present and future.
(Long pause from 9:49 to 9:50) “Nabene, then, is changed by your present actions, even as you are by his seemingly past ones. Your friend, Sue, said that there is free action across the board in such cases, and that is an apt description.
“The pyramids exist as other than physical matter, but it is only as physical matter that you perceive them. There are several important issues connected with the pyramids that are not as yet understood. The symbols upon them often were meant to be sounded. The sound setting up reverberations. Some of these would automatically open up many doors, leading to as yet undiscovered secrets - but only for those who understood the use of sound.
“The Egyptians then were also helped, and told how to construct the pyramids.
“Now you may take your break.”
(9:52 Jane’s pace had been slow for the most part, and she said she knew it. Usually she isn’t aware of her pace, the passage of time, etc.)
(Nabene is the name for a personality of mine that presumably lived as a male in the first century AD in Jerusalem. We know little about that life: one evening with Sue Watkins, she also lived then, I managed to tune into that existence to some degree via images. Seth has referred to Nabene a few times, and my role as a record keeper and teacher. Sue was one of my pupils. I was quite a taskmaster, I’m told. Jane and I would like to hold a session to learn more about this life, including who else we know was involved then, etc.)
(10:10 Jane said “I’m just sitting here waiting. The connection doesn’t seem as good tonight.”)
(“I was wondering if you wanted to bother continuing,” I said.)
(I do. It just doesn’t seem as strong...” We continued to wait. At 10:15: “I had the feeling at break,” Jane said, “that Seth has gone away, rather than staying close like he usually does - as though he’d left to gather information or something. I’m perfectly willing to continue the session, though.”)
At 9:20 p.m. Jane said she “felt Seth around. I get a word or two in my head, so I know he’s here.” We had just finished a snack. Jane had read the last session while she ate. Her pace was quite slow to begin.)
Seth: “Good evening.”
Rob: “Good evening, Seth.”
Seth: “Now. There are bleedthroughs, however, in space and time as you think of them. Remember, all times are simultaneous.
“Ideas are not dependent upon preexisting ideas. It is not true to say that man cannot conceive of something that is not already presented to his experience in one way or another. Ideas are free of space and time. Only your determined focus upon your time conceptions closes you off from many ideas that otherwise are available.
“In your terms the bleedthrough can occur in both past and present, and idea from today bleeding into the past or the other way around. The ideas will be actualized or put into a practical structure according to your attitude toward them.
“Some of the most sophisticated art is from the past. Bleedthroughs result in its being picked up in your present. Theoretically all of the information of so -called lost civilizations is quite available to you, as yours is to them. A closed mind will perceive none of this.
“In terms of experience humanity is working out its problems and challenges in 20th century terms and in the old Sumerian (spelled) civilization. You simply choose various kinds of organizational structures and different root assumptions - all however within the general root assumptions used for physical existence.
(Pause at 9:35 one of many.) “The old Sumerians (spelled) are singing their chants now at the same time that Ruburt is trying to translate them now in your terms. I wish I could impress upon you this great transparency of time so that you could experience its dimensions. In one way of speaking you have “not yet” developed the proficiency with sound that would now allow for the building of structures such as those we described in the last session.
(Those at Baalbek; the Pyramids, etc.) “Yet those structures exist even in your now, bleedthrough to make you think and, in other terms, to make you remember. Many physical structures have existed in your terms in the same space now occupied by your apartment house. Because of your root assumptions, however, it is not possible for you to perceive these, nor those that will come ‘after.’ Yet those structures exist as validly as the apartment house.
“They share certain coordinates. Knowing those coordinates would, of course, be very important., but the other realities would still remain nonrealities to you unless you changed your primary focus. When you do that there is no need to know what the coordinates are. The inner self is quite aware of all of this. It picks and chooses the information and data that is important to you, and makes it available according to your desires.
(9:42) “If you are greatly interested for example in history, then the inner self brings you the information you need from all of its sources. Under certain conditions you maybe propelled through the coordinates and find yourself in the era in which you are interested.
“The conscious intent, however, directs the kind of material you receive. If you have no interest in such things, no phenomena will occur strong enough to impress you in the waking state. If is very possible then to be building a civilization that, in your terms, you are now studying, to be interpreting ancient records that you yourself may have written, to be digging up roads that you yourself built.
(9:47) “This applies to your own historical time as well as to others. At other layers, of course, your civilization is already in the past, as in others your civilization does not yet exist. The bleedthroughs, however, mean that each people according to their characteristics, interests and activities, attract certain ideas both from the future and the past, and there is constant interaction. Because of this even the past as you think of it, as I told you, is never done and completed, but constantly changed by your present and future.
(Long pause from 9:49 to 9:50) “Nabene, then, is changed by your present actions, even as you are by his seemingly past ones. Your friend, Sue, said that there is free action across the board in such cases, and that is an apt description.
“The pyramids exist as other than physical matter, but it is only as physical matter that you perceive them. There are several important issues connected with the pyramids that are not as yet understood. The symbols upon them often were meant to be sounded. The sound setting up reverberations. Some of these would automatically open up many doors, leading to as yet undiscovered secrets - but only for those who understood the use of sound.
“The Egyptians then were also helped, and told how to construct the pyramids.
“Now you may take your break.”
(9:52 Jane’s pace had been slow for the most part, and she said she knew it. Usually she isn’t aware of her pace, the passage of time, etc.)
(Nabene is the name for a personality of mine that presumably lived as a male in the first century AD in Jerusalem. We know little about that life: one evening with Sue Watkins, she also lived then, I managed to tune into that existence to some degree via images. Seth has referred to Nabene a few times, and my role as a record keeper and teacher. Sue was one of my pupils. I was quite a taskmaster, I’m told. Jane and I would like to hold a session to learn more about this life, including who else we know was involved then, etc.)
(10:10 Jane said “I’m just sitting here waiting. The connection doesn’t seem as good tonight.”)
(“I was wondering if you wanted to bother continuing,” I said.)
(I do. It just doesn’t seem as strong...” We continued to wait. At 10:15: “I had the feeling at break,” Jane said, “that Seth has gone away, rather than staying close like he usually does - as though he’d left to gather information or something. I’m perfectly willing to continue the session, though.”)
((Then: “I did get a line just now,” she said. “Something about how they prepared the air first, for the construction of the pyramid...Now I’m
getting the feeling of an awful lot of people, chanting - thousands of them - this still has to do with the pyramids.”)
(It’s a real funny feeling, as though the sound could break through into the living room,” Jane said. I said I thought I understood what Seth was doing: in light of the material we’d been getting, he was giving Jane the experience of that ancient time and our present time, showing that both are simultaneous. This experience would tie in nicely with the material.)
(I feel that a whole mass of people would visualize a pyramid in their imagination,” Jane said, “then through their chanting, the use of certain vowels and pitches, they actually changed the air where that building was going to be. They made a boundary in the air,” she said making angular gestures, “a cohesiveness, for this imaginary structure. Then they had certain kinds of tuning forks, then some kind of instrument. The noise of the chant was like something that you’d use to turn on this instrument - when the chant got to a certain pitch it turned on this instrument, and it somehow intensified and focused sound to what we would call an incredible energy degree - broke it down and then focused it in certain directions.
(“You could move very heavy objects with it. The objects were levitated - raised up in the air, no matter how heavy. They only needed to be guided by people to some degree. Many men were used to guiding them but not to lift or carry them. The sound instrument had a fantastic cohesive effect that bound atoms and molecules together.”)
(10:25 “And beside that the instruments also set up some kind of extra charge that we don’t understand yet, around objects that were so constructed, like the pyramids,” Jane continued. She was speaking faster now than she had in the session. “Doors and passageways inside the pyramids will open through the correct sound messages and signals, and were designed only to open if those correct signals were given.”)
(This sounds really weird. There are also invisible pyramids - we just can’t see them.” I could tell that Jane didn’t know what to make of this data; she was even hesitant at telling me. “These pyramids were constructed in such a way that they reflect everything else, so that when you look at them you don’t see them as objects. Wait, I’m not getting this right...they’re perfect camouflages of wherever they are, but certain sound pitches would make them visible.”)
(“There are some invisible rooms like that inside the regular pyramids, too.”)
(Pause at 10:30. “These are structures engineered on our earth extremely cleverly. Sound patterns would physically materialize them, but if these patterns aren’t given then the structures are just out of the range of what we’d normally (call?) physical. They’re complete, see, if this pattern is given or spoken.”)
(Jane said, “It’s as though they’re frozen - this isn’t a good word - at a certain stage until these patterns are given.” (Pause.) “All objects have their own sound patterns that help form their structure as much as the atoms and molecules do...”)
(Break at 10:35. “I wanted to take a break, Jane said. “I never heard of anything like that. It sounded so crazy I didn’t even want to say it, about the invisible pyramids...The chanting was over here.” She gestured to her left as she sat in her rocker; we were holding the session in her study in apartment four again. Jane’s gestures thus indicated the large open center area of the room, as though she was reaching over a wall almost. “I got some of the chants, but I couldn’t quite carry it through. Seth didn’t tell me anything like this was going to happen.”)
(At 10:43 “I’m just waiting to see what happens next. This isn’t terribly strong, but I have the feeling of a barrier over there,” and again Jane gestured to her left. “that I can’t get over. But all this stuff comes from over there. Something about these instruments making atoms and molecules denser, somehow - doing different things with them...”)
(Then Seth returned at 10:45 “Now. The information Ruburt gave is substantially correct.”
“You know that sound has an effect upon living things. It can help mend bone. It can also be used, however, to reinforce structures. We are in the preliminary stages with the Sumari language - hopefully leading to some understanding of the nature of sound, though (humorously) you may not yet be able to build a pyramid in your back yard.”
Rob: “I understand.”
Seth: “Now I would like you to close your eyes, or leave them open if you prefer. Let various inner sounds, memories of sounds, enter your consciousness, that may or may not be familiar to you. Try to think of the sounds of images, think specifically of pyramids and see what sounds come to you.”
(10:50 While Seth was talking I kept writing, of course, in order to get the material for future reference. Finally I sat quietly. Jane was already doing so, her eyes shut; I didn’t know whether Seth had left again or not. My own eyes closed and I let myself drift.)
(In a few moments I seemed to visualize a pyramid shape that was based on pictures I remembered of the actual structures in Egypt. This was very pleasant. I seemed to be above the building looking down at it. This image, on a slight angle, was probably more subjective than objective. Then I seemed to feel a deep ringing gong-type sound, one that was rather prolonged. It was repeated several times. After this I felt and heard a series of chants by an unseen group, seemingly out of my field of vision to my right.)
(The chanting was low and monotonous. It went up and down the scale but a few notes. I had the feeling that it would repeat itself almost effortlessly as long as I sat in this state and listened. I enjoyed the experience, and was somewhat surprised at the results.)
(I opened my eyes. Jane opened hers, and I could see that Seth was present. I described what I had experienced, not knowing if I had accomplished anything even remotely approaching what he had in mind. “I don’t know why,” I added, “but I associated the square base of the pyramid with this gong effect. It was as though I could see this shape especially well while listening to the gong sound, which was quite prolonged actually. It seemed to repeat itself. Like the chants, which were pretty monotonous, up and down a few notes on the scale. They weren’t pitched very high, either.”)
(It’s a real funny feeling, as though the sound could break through into the living room,” Jane said. I said I thought I understood what Seth was doing: in light of the material we’d been getting, he was giving Jane the experience of that ancient time and our present time, showing that both are simultaneous. This experience would tie in nicely with the material.)
(I feel that a whole mass of people would visualize a pyramid in their imagination,” Jane said, “then through their chanting, the use of certain vowels and pitches, they actually changed the air where that building was going to be. They made a boundary in the air,” she said making angular gestures, “a cohesiveness, for this imaginary structure. Then they had certain kinds of tuning forks, then some kind of instrument. The noise of the chant was like something that you’d use to turn on this instrument - when the chant got to a certain pitch it turned on this instrument, and it somehow intensified and focused sound to what we would call an incredible energy degree - broke it down and then focused it in certain directions.
(“You could move very heavy objects with it. The objects were levitated - raised up in the air, no matter how heavy. They only needed to be guided by people to some degree. Many men were used to guiding them but not to lift or carry them. The sound instrument had a fantastic cohesive effect that bound atoms and molecules together.”)
(10:25 “And beside that the instruments also set up some kind of extra charge that we don’t understand yet, around objects that were so constructed, like the pyramids,” Jane continued. She was speaking faster now than she had in the session. “Doors and passageways inside the pyramids will open through the correct sound messages and signals, and were designed only to open if those correct signals were given.”)
(This sounds really weird. There are also invisible pyramids - we just can’t see them.” I could tell that Jane didn’t know what to make of this data; she was even hesitant at telling me. “These pyramids were constructed in such a way that they reflect everything else, so that when you look at them you don’t see them as objects. Wait, I’m not getting this right...they’re perfect camouflages of wherever they are, but certain sound pitches would make them visible.”)
(“There are some invisible rooms like that inside the regular pyramids, too.”)
(Pause at 10:30. “These are structures engineered on our earth extremely cleverly. Sound patterns would physically materialize them, but if these patterns aren’t given then the structures are just out of the range of what we’d normally (call?) physical. They’re complete, see, if this pattern is given or spoken.”)
(Jane said, “It’s as though they’re frozen - this isn’t a good word - at a certain stage until these patterns are given.” (Pause.) “All objects have their own sound patterns that help form their structure as much as the atoms and molecules do...”)
(Break at 10:35. “I wanted to take a break, Jane said. “I never heard of anything like that. It sounded so crazy I didn’t even want to say it, about the invisible pyramids...The chanting was over here.” She gestured to her left as she sat in her rocker; we were holding the session in her study in apartment four again. Jane’s gestures thus indicated the large open center area of the room, as though she was reaching over a wall almost. “I got some of the chants, but I couldn’t quite carry it through. Seth didn’t tell me anything like this was going to happen.”)
(At 10:43 “I’m just waiting to see what happens next. This isn’t terribly strong, but I have the feeling of a barrier over there,” and again Jane gestured to her left. “that I can’t get over. But all this stuff comes from over there. Something about these instruments making atoms and molecules denser, somehow - doing different things with them...”)
(Then Seth returned at 10:45 “Now. The information Ruburt gave is substantially correct.”
“You know that sound has an effect upon living things. It can help mend bone. It can also be used, however, to reinforce structures. We are in the preliminary stages with the Sumari language - hopefully leading to some understanding of the nature of sound, though (humorously) you may not yet be able to build a pyramid in your back yard.”
Rob: “I understand.”
Seth: “Now I would like you to close your eyes, or leave them open if you prefer. Let various inner sounds, memories of sounds, enter your consciousness, that may or may not be familiar to you. Try to think of the sounds of images, think specifically of pyramids and see what sounds come to you.”
(10:50 While Seth was talking I kept writing, of course, in order to get the material for future reference. Finally I sat quietly. Jane was already doing so, her eyes shut; I didn’t know whether Seth had left again or not. My own eyes closed and I let myself drift.)
(In a few moments I seemed to visualize a pyramid shape that was based on pictures I remembered of the actual structures in Egypt. This was very pleasant. I seemed to be above the building looking down at it. This image, on a slight angle, was probably more subjective than objective. Then I seemed to feel a deep ringing gong-type sound, one that was rather prolonged. It was repeated several times. After this I felt and heard a series of chants by an unseen group, seemingly out of my field of vision to my right.)
(The chanting was low and monotonous. It went up and down the scale but a few notes. I had the feeling that it would repeat itself almost effortlessly as long as I sat in this state and listened. I enjoyed the experience, and was somewhat surprised at the results.)
(I opened my eyes. Jane opened hers, and I could see that Seth was present. I described what I had experienced, not knowing if I had accomplished anything even remotely approaching what he had in mind. “I don’t know why,” I added, “but I associated the square base of the pyramid with this gong effect. It was as though I could see this shape especially well while listening to the gong sound, which was quite prolonged actually. It seemed to repeat itself. Like the chants, which were pretty monotonous, up and down a few notes on the scale. They weren’t pitched very high, either.”)
Last part:
Seth: “That is a very good beginning.”
(I don’t know why I use the word gong,” I said. I couldn’t imitate it. I think there’s a funny association there also with old movies. I could have picked up the chanting idea from material Jane was getting earlier this evening.)
(10:56) Seth: “I want you to discover some of these things for yourself, which is why I used this particular format this evening. I will only tell you then that your feeling of the sound of a gong is quite legitimate.
“I would like both of you at odd moments to look at objects, then try to hear their sound. This will be handy training for some other things to come. This also applies incidentally to various organs of the body, and to the body itself. Then let the sounds evoke whatever naturally comes from them. There is a strange inter-relationship between sound and what you think of as time, but a binding one.
“Time can then ‘appear’ as a sound. Sound can be used to set apart certain elements from others, to isolate them from others, and on the other hand to bind elements also. In that regard think of sound as a line perhaps that you sketch with.
(11:01) “Sound’s properties are not understood. I want it specifically noted then that sound can be used as a binder or as a separator of elements. It can be used to open up pathways within dimensions, both microscopic and macroscopic.
“And with that I will close our session. Think also, however, of the sound in connection with your paintings, of sounds that will make the paintings themselves more vital and the material last longer. And with that I will leave you.”
Rob: “Thank you very much, Seth. It’s been extremely interesting. Good night.”
(11:04. Jane said that while I had been getting my effects, she had been somewhat separated from Seth after all. She saw groups of men “like pictures you’d see of Egyptians. I saw their dark skin - in color - against short robes. They were in groups chanting.”)
(She saw a structure like a pyramid shape. She had the feeling that "heavier sounds were at the bottom. These formed the base of the pyramid.” She tried several times to explain this to me. It was all important, she said, that the heavier sounds were at the base of the structures. Like the musical scale, she felt that the sounds used in building the pyramids “made steps in the air that you couldn’t see. Certain sounds went up - certain sounds bound things together - they all had purposes...”
Seth: “That is a very good beginning.”
(I don’t know why I use the word gong,” I said. I couldn’t imitate it. I think there’s a funny association there also with old movies. I could have picked up the chanting idea from material Jane was getting earlier this evening.)
(10:56) Seth: “I want you to discover some of these things for yourself, which is why I used this particular format this evening. I will only tell you then that your feeling of the sound of a gong is quite legitimate.
“I would like both of you at odd moments to look at objects, then try to hear their sound. This will be handy training for some other things to come. This also applies incidentally to various organs of the body, and to the body itself. Then let the sounds evoke whatever naturally comes from them. There is a strange inter-relationship between sound and what you think of as time, but a binding one.
“Time can then ‘appear’ as a sound. Sound can be used to set apart certain elements from others, to isolate them from others, and on the other hand to bind elements also. In that regard think of sound as a line perhaps that you sketch with.
(11:01) “Sound’s properties are not understood. I want it specifically noted then that sound can be used as a binder or as a separator of elements. It can be used to open up pathways within dimensions, both microscopic and macroscopic.
“And with that I will close our session. Think also, however, of the sound in connection with your paintings, of sounds that will make the paintings themselves more vital and the material last longer. And with that I will leave you.”
Rob: “Thank you very much, Seth. It’s been extremely interesting. Good night.”
(11:04. Jane said that while I had been getting my effects, she had been somewhat separated from Seth after all. She saw groups of men “like pictures you’d see of Egyptians. I saw their dark skin - in color - against short robes. They were in groups chanting.”)
(She saw a structure like a pyramid shape. She had the feeling that "heavier sounds were at the bottom. These formed the base of the pyramid.” She tried several times to explain this to me. It was all important, she said, that the heavier sounds were at the base of the structures. Like the musical scale, she felt that the sounds used in building the pyramids “made steps in the air that you couldn’t see. Certain sounds went up - certain sounds bound things together - they all had purposes...”
wow, the seth books..i started reading those back in late 80's early 90's...as some other posters have said..channeling was not something really
known or talked about then..but alot of the info is still very relevant and being seen for the insight that it was...but channeling is so iffy
now...if any one here is familiar with the 'council of nine' and the controversy that surrounds them,,,channeling now -adays is seen as
quackery...way too many people think they are channeling beings and that has soured any message from anything that is channeled...for those that do
deep meditation...what do you hear?....its not the same as what we know as channeling...way to many hear something and think they are
channeling....
that said everything needs to be taken with a grain..or handfull of salt...in our current society that is lost, spiritually, mentally and physicaly... people unknowingly and knowingly will grasp at anything that will help justify their mentality..good or bad...with all the tech now-a-days..the leaders and people think that they are more in touch with reality....but you are no more in touch with reality than those that lived hunting their own food and had no connection..via internet..tv ect...in most ways we are behind....you really live in a matrix...an illusion that has been dropped over everything to hide the real past..the real beginings of earth, of humanity...lies to cover the real tracks....
the seth books should be used as they were meant to be....a doorway that not is opened for you, but a doorway that was only shown to you...to open the door, when to open the door, what is behind the door....each of us will open a doorway and see and experience something different..a path can only be shown to you and despite being surrounded by others............... you must walk it alone
that said everything needs to be taken with a grain..or handfull of salt...in our current society that is lost, spiritually, mentally and physicaly... people unknowingly and knowingly will grasp at anything that will help justify their mentality..good or bad...with all the tech now-a-days..the leaders and people think that they are more in touch with reality....but you are no more in touch with reality than those that lived hunting their own food and had no connection..via internet..tv ect...in most ways we are behind....you really live in a matrix...an illusion that has been dropped over everything to hide the real past..the real beginings of earth, of humanity...lies to cover the real tracks....
the seth books should be used as they were meant to be....a doorway that not is opened for you, but a doorway that was only shown to you...to open the door, when to open the door, what is behind the door....each of us will open a doorway and see and experience something different..a path can only be shown to you and despite being surrounded by others............... you must walk it alone
thebtheb
Octave
reply to post by brazenalderpadrescorpio
It appears in The Nature of Personal Reality
She actually did have an interest in new age thoughts and ideas and experimented with the Ouija board quite a lot. She was a poet and her writing style I found to be a bit flat unlike Seth whose writing style was more rounded and full of humor.
Her writing style felt to me at least more intellectual whereas Seth's felt more geared toward the man down the street. They were very, very different styles and personalities.
This is not true about her having had an interest or experimenting with the Ouija board before Seth. She was sitting down to write one day and had a very intense spiritual experience which she couldn't explain, and from it, decided to write a book where she would experiment with psychic/occult phenomena. One of these was the Ouija board, upon which she immediately ended up talking to Seth through it. Before this, she had no interest and knew nothing about any of it.
Your absolutely right, I double checked and her first psychic intuition experience occurred in 1963 and it was soon there after that she purchased her first Ouija board and made first contact with Seth and over time that became the Seth Material.
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