Grangemouth Oil Refinery to Close .... My own theory about it

Ok so the Oil refinery at Grangemouth in Scotland could close soon after it was announced today that the process plant next to it is to close following a dispute with the workers.

BBC Report here

The closure is being blamed by the management of the plant on lack of profit and the unwillingness of the workers to accept cuts in pay and conditions.

However I have my own theory which I'd like to expound here.

About 2 years ago the SNP government in Scotland announced there would be a referendum in Scotland in 2014 to ask the people of Scotland if they wished to become an independent country and separate from England.

A large part of the campaign for independence relies on the income from Scottish Oil, all of which is processed at Grangemouth. For those of the population who don't read up much oil is seen as the only thing Scotland would rely on. It does produce a lot of wealth but not all of it.

When the referendum announcement was made I made a prediction that something bad would happen to the Grangemouth Complex. I didn't know what that would be but I had a feeling that something would happen to it, and it seems that is what is happening now.

Lets have a wee think about this. America (Zionists) rely on the United Kingdom to give them support in policing the planet. See what happened in Syria when the UK did not support the USA ..... the plan fell through. So it is vital to America (Zionists) that the United Kingdom is kept together and not broken up.

Therefore I believe that all stops are being pulled to shut down the plant in order to sway voters to think that we are better off staying in the Union rather than going alone.

What i think will happen between now and the referendum is that fuel and oil will stop being available from Grangemouth and it will have to be shipped by road or sea from refineries in England, thus giving the impression that we, the Scots, are reliant on England for survival.

If the plan works and the NWO get their prefered 'No' vote come November next year then the plant can be reopened and everyone return to business as usual.

reply to post by bigyin


I know the London government does not want to loose Scotland and I also guess there are Royal lands in Scotland, so people up there would also be able to decide on whether to ditch the Royalty and their land holdings etc, which I also feel is a part of this.

I am not surprised that something has 'hit' Grangemouth because if that goes, so basically does Alex Salmon's hopes for a separate Scotland. There is a much bigger picture over Scottish devolution than people probably realize. Being English I would actually welcome a serparate England but have never once been given a chance to even discuss it. I would be only too willing to see only English MP's in London which I think is fair and right and no MP's whatsoever with dual passports, which I feel produces split loyalities.

Scotland may well have a good chance of going it alone, but England's standing abroad would probably diminish overnight, except for the power of the City, where your Zionist comments probably fit.

I'm not sure about this....surely if independence was achieved, you could also bring Grangemouth out of mothballs just as you have suggested the English would do if the Scots lost the vote for independence?

It's a 'building' when all said and done....building a new one would surely mean more jobs?

meh...what do I know

Rainbows
Jane

Good theory and could be very true. But at the same time if the figures on earnings are true the plant was losing a hell of a lot of money. Jim Ratcliffe is now the most hated man in Scotland, but lets face it hes most likely going to get a lot of money out of the whole thing.

Another issue is unite, although the workers have every right to say "no, we want more money and to keep our pension" they might need to bite the bullet vote for the changes which is the only thing that will keep the company afloat.

reply to post by thekaboose


In which case, unite stick to their guns, Grangemouth becomes even more of a burden/loss, the Scots will blame the English 'system' for lack of wage increases and pension caps, Scotland gets independence, brand spankers new refinery built....check mate!

Rainbows
Jane

It appears to be the case that the plant along with other refineries around the world is not making money.

However it was only a few weeks ago that Ineos, the company running it, said that the plant would close in 2017 if there wasn't £300M thrown at it and along with changes to working pay and conditions.

But today they announce it is closing now.

So whats changed between now and a few weeks ago ?

I think the NWO has decided to not waste a good crises and bring the closure forward so that it has maximum effect wrt the Independence Vote.

The problem now has been exacerbated because with this part of the plant closed it has a knock on effect to other parts and ultimately to the oil rigs operating offshore where the oil comes from.

Over the next few months leading up to the vote I think we will hear rumours and fear of the whole thing closing.

I don't think it will actually close but certainly the effect on the voters through the extremely biased media will give the impression that Scotland is doomed and must remain part of UK.

After the election, probably everything goes back to business as usual.

I have to agree with the OP on this.... It does seem coincidental that this HUGE place (1% of Scottish GDP) is suddenly going down the pan.

Maybe it will make people focus more on the independence issue and think before throwing it all away by voting For an Independant Scotland.

The SNP for all their 'spin' must surely know deep down that Scotland and England are far stronger together than apart.

I just wish that the power base in England wasn't so London -centric....

Vote NO to independence

Regards

PDUK

PurpleDog UK
I have to agree with the OP on this.... It does seem coincidental that this HUGE place (1% of Scottish GDP) is suddenly going down the pan.

Maybe it will make people focus more on the independence issue and think before throwing it all away by voting For an Independant Scotland.

The SNP for all their 'spin' must surely know deep down that Scotland and England are far stronger together than apart.

I just wish that the power base in England wasn't so London -centric....

Vote NO to independence

Regards

PDUK

No m8 .... if Scotland had been independent before now this sort of thing which has happened to a lot of Scottish industry would not be happening.

So long as Scotland has no control over whats going on here we will always be the losers.

I encourage all Scots to vote Yes to independence.

reply to post by bigyin


well i don't know so much about that, i say it's pretty much about money.
i know here in the states, when a refinery closes, the cost of gas and diesel starts to climb and usually doesn't stop until reopened.

i bet that is the real reason.

reply to post by bigyin


I agree with your post, but I'm not too sure about the Zionist bit. This reminds me of Ravenscraig and the London-centric assumption that Scotland doesn't matter. Somehow we're all filthy alcoholics who like to fight, so who cares? What was the Tory phrase in the 80's about 'managed decline'? It feels a bit like that.

What does bother me is the timing of this, I think you're spot on. I think it has everything to do with the referendum. The problem is that we still don't know how Scotland will look when we are an independent country. We have no idea what our legal system, benefits system, energy network, education policy etc etc will look like. So what role will Grangemouth play? The centre of a thriving oil industry or...what? None of us in Scotland can say with any certainty what will happen. We don't know. So why the rush to ditch Grangemouth now?

I can understand English people when they say they are fed up hearing about the referendum. So far there has been no substance to any of the discussions. It becomes hard to have a sensible and knowledgeable opinion. That being said, I know which box my X is going in!

I have also thought the same as the OP. Its all rather convenient that this plant suffers these issues with less than a year to go.

Either way, if it stays open or shuts, i will be voting YES and so are most people i know.

The best thing that could happen is that the SNP government buys this plant, re-opens it and provides the necessary upgrades required. If this costs the Scottish taxpayer in the pocket, so be it...its an industry we rely on in Scotland, and an industry that has been robbed from us for 40 years.

It is Scotland's turn and 1 plant closing down should NOT stop any Scottish person from viewing this referendum as a once in a life time opportunity to change this country for the better, for all the future generations. Get away from London rule, it does us NO favours. It brings debt, terrorism and poverty north of the border...nothing else. Its not what i want from my children. I want opportunity for them

reply to post by bigyin


I disagree here chief. Grangemouth has been making losses for a fair few years now. Added to this is unreasonable demands from the union Unite - i say unreasonable because they were after improved pension benefits, working hours, etc, whilst running at a loss. Throw in the factor that they are owed by Ineos (Swiss not British) and you cannot really blame them for threatening to pull the plug.

In perspective, Grangemouth is losing about £10 million per month, further investment to improve the facility and make it competitive would be around £300 million.

Faced against that backdrop, what do Unite realistically expect to be the outcome when they go in with increased demands? It is job suicide on behalf of the workers they claim to represent. Any members of Unite based at Grangemouth should be absolutely bloody furious with them. This is quite simply basic economic and business sense, even if it does leave a bad taste.

The op called it correct, The owners of Grangemouth posted a profit of £50 million last year...I'm sorry, but is plowing part of your profit back into the Facility for upgrades not what Good, well run companies do...£300 million..pffft.....In 2011 they had sales of over £43 Billion world wide between it's 41 other companies/facilities.

This is Political and i wonder how much influence Westminster has on this decision....No doubt if Scotland Votes for independence then INEOS will up sticks and move it's Operation south of the Border with Tax free exemptions from Westminster.


Vote Yes and get rid of Westminster and it's Anti Scottish agenda once and for all.

ps, the owner of Grangemouth has a £200 million Yacht, he could have sold that to pay for the so called upgrades required instead of asking the public to fork out for it....where do these multi Billionaires think the money comes from.

Swiss based Company...so you know what that means...Aye....Nae Tax as usual.
I say we take over the plant and run it not for profit, but for the benefit of the Scottish economy and the People.

Westminster have their knickers in a twist about Scotland going it alone....They are simply #ting themselves.

reply to post by Flavian


Except that's not what happened here. Unite support their workers, they are not making unrealistic demands and the threatened strike action was about an unrelated case of alleged victimisation regarding one individual worker about 2 weeks ago.

Unite held talks with Ineos, and agreed not to strike that Sunday. Ineos then responded by stating it was closing the plant, and Ratcliffe demanded an apology from the union.

And so the plant closed, the unions and workers are made to look like the bad guys and Ratcliffe stomps about sulking, caring not a damn about the families in Scotland, who gave him their time, skill and labour to make him rich.

reply to post by Soloprotocol


It doesn't matter what profits other plants / subsiduary companies are making, the only concern is with each individual plant. It is costing money to run that facility, therefore that facility is not economically viable.

That is not to say it could not be made economically viable, just that in its current form it is not that way.

Like i said above, the way this is being done leaves a bad taste but from an economic standpoint it is a decision that makes sense.

Aggressive union behaviour is never sensible when a business is not economically viable. That can be spun whichever way you like but the fact remains that Unite turned down the proposal on offer. Fair enough but this is the response.

Frankly, i think Governmental intervention is inevitable because Grangemouth is a hugely important facility, whether Independence is gained or not. I would suspect this is more about wrangling behind the scenes for future concessions in UK energy and chemicals, possible subsidies for investment, etc.

reply to post by beansidhe


You say that didn't happen.........

" Union representatives said on Wednesday night that they planned to re-open talks at 8am with the Swiss-based Ineos, which announced it was closing the plant after only half the staff accepted its "survival plan".

The plan would have seen bonus cuts, changes to working terms, a reduction in pension benefits and a no-strike pledge, sweetened by a £15,000 one-off payment."

Well, according to Unite themselves, yes it did........

reply to post by bigyin


I hope we do stay part of the UK because Salmond is an ass!!le, cant stand the man he says that the people that stay work and run Scotland should be in charge yet at every opportunity he would use Sean Connery as an SNP icon, someone who doesn't even live in Scotland because he doesn't want to cough up to much tax .

The IRONY is lost on that idiot!

Soloprotocol
The op called it correct, The owners of Grangemouth posted a profit of £50 million last year...I'm sorry, but is plowing part of your profit back into the Facility for upgrades not what Good, well run companies do.

Yes that is exactly right, that is how businesses are supposed to function, but when it comes to the energy and utilities markets, it seems that keeping all the profits for the share holders / owners and waiting until your infrastructure is failing then turn to the government for a handout of public money to shore it up and fix it all, all the while threatening to go down the tubes losing jobs and energy production is the norm.

I say we take over the plant and run it not for profit, but for the benefit of the Scottish economy and the People.

Agreed! Could we also do that with Scottish Power and Scottish Water?..... utilities for the people by the people!

To the OP, good call on this one. I too am suspicious of the timing. I would LOVE to see an independent Scotland but not if we are to still be a member of the EU. I would like to see true independence from everyone! My main fear and suspicion is why is Westminster letting this happen now, after all these years? Would being independent in reality mean we would just be absorbed as a state of Europe and so still be dictated from outwith our country? This would bring the take over and formation of the United States of Europe a step closer. Would the SNP do as they originally used to say, and if the vote was 'yes' then they would immediately stand down and have a re-vote to let us decide which party Scotland we would like to be in charge, or are they planning on doing this to stay in power?

reply to post by Flavian


Hi Flavian

My point is not that Unite are not now negotiating for the rights of its members. They are, the situation has escalated and the Scottish Government is involving itself heavily in the talks. My point was that the original motivation to strike came from a completely different angle, an isolated and apparently unrelated incident.

I have not been privy to the talks around the table and so I have no idea whether or not the tone from Unite is aggressive. Personally, I'm a card-carrying union member and if they have to be aggressive to secure jobs, wages and prevent the socio-economic collapse of communities, then I'm all for that. God knows Scotland has suffered from this before.

But I can agree with you on one point. This is politically motivated, and there are no doubt many men scrambling about as we speak trying to ensure no one loses out over Scotland's oil.

reply to post by Soloprotocol


'kin right, well said. The best thing that could happen for the people of Scotland is that we get this business into public ownership and start to look after ourselves and each other.