Turns out there really are Death Panels...here comes the spin

www.slate.com...

I can't imagine why liberal rags like "Slate" would start a PR campaign for Death Panels unless...DING DING DING, they are coming home!

reply to post by FreeMason

You really should put the title of the article up, here, I'll do it.

Canada has death panels, and that's a good thing.

It's a good thing???

reply to post by FreeMason


Well "death panel" is not a good pr phrase. Maybe" life tribunal"?

I have no idea what this means. Death panel???

AutumnWitch657
I have no idea what this means. Death panel???

In Canada it's a group of civic minded individuals that act somewhat like a jury. They determine whether or not a patient who may be comatose, organs failing, possibly brain dead, should be taken off life support and allowed to die. The panel overrules doctors and next of kin in these decisions and makes what they feel is the best decision for the patient, not the government, doctors, next of kin or health care provider.

In the US, death panel has many meanings, it could be;

1. A panel of one, meaning Obama.
2. A panel, group or one member at the NSA or CIA
3. A group of telemarkers working for the health care industry making arbitrary decisions based on bottom line profit and loss statements per individual patient.

Cheers - Dave

Anyone with an ounce of common sense saw it coming.

And if you have a little more common sense you can see what else is coming. The IRS is in charge of Obamacare. The IRS is already guilty of targeting conservatives and the TEA party. Guess whose names will get pushed to the top of the death panel list?

jjkenobi
Anyone with an ounce of common sense saw it coming.

And if you have a little more common sense you can see what else is coming. The IRS is in charge of Obamacare. The IRS is already guilty of targeting conservatives and the TEA party. Guess whose names will get pushed to the top of the death panel list?

Did you evens bother to read the link? First you have to provide an argument that defends a family's decision to keep someone alive well beyond any real prospect of recovery and whether by doing so is in the interests of the patient, or exploiting the patient for selfish but understandable reasons of close relatives to keep someone alive, but for all the wrong reasons.

Death panels is an emotive term, made by simpletons, for simpletons. Any investigation into the facts tells a far different story.

dashen
Well "death panel" is not a good pr phrase. Maybe" life tribunal"?

That's a doubleplus good idea!

I also like "time allotment specialists"

reply to post by FreeMason


The UK also has "Death Panel" or something like it.

Hospitals 'paid millions to put patients on death pathway'
Hospitals are being paid millions of pounds to reach targets for the number of patients put on a controversial pathway for the withdrawal of life-saving treatment, according to data based on Freedom of Information requests.


Top doctor's chilling claim: The NHS kills off 130,000 elderly patients every year
Professor says doctors use 'death pathway' to euthenasia of the elderly
Around 29 per cent of patients that die in hospital are on controversial 'care pathway'



Children placed on controversial 'death pathway'
Sick children are being placed on a controversial end-of-life “pathway” previously only thought to have been used for elderly and terminally-ill adult patients.

Raise your hand if you think any of them will ever value your life more than their profits...

Then sign here.

Allowing anyone outside your family to make such decisions is a bad idea.

They're greasing bums and herding us all toward that slope, I tell ya.

crimvelvet
reply to post by FreeMason

 

The UK also has "Death Panel" or something like it.

Hospitals 'paid millions to put patients on death pathway'
Hospitals are being paid millions of pounds to reach targets for the number of patients put on a controversial pathway for the withdrawal of life-saving treatment, according to data based on Freedom of Information requests.


Top doctor's chilling claim: The NHS kills off 130,000 elderly patients every year
Professor says doctors use 'death pathway' to euthenasia of the elderly
Around 29 per cent of patients that die in hospital are on controversial 'care pathway'



Children placed on controversial 'death pathway'
Sick children are being placed on a controversial end-of-life “pathway” previously only thought to have been used for elderly and terminally-ill adult patients.

The LCP is not a death panel as it requires family approval or at least did last year when I let my father go.. whats needed is the fact that people need to challenge the views of doctors to ensure the best care is given before such decisions are required

reply to post by Maxatoria

The LCP is not a death panel as it requires family approval or at least did last year....

Turns out, according to the news media reports I have read, that the Docs are making the decision WITHOUT the patient or family approval and WITH a monetary incentive to the hospital.

That is a death panel in my book.

Ministers order an inquiry into the care pathway payments that saw hospitals receive millions to implement controversial system

* Several cases have been reported where patients have been put on Liverpool Care Pathway without their family's knowledge
* Care minister Norman Lamb called the number of cases 'unacceptable'
* Liverpool Care Pathway through to be a part in 130,000 deaths of hospital patients every year

....The new investigation will examine how hospitals have received tens of millions of pounds to implement the controversial system for care of the dying.

Care and support minister Norman Lamb said there had been too many cases of patients dying on the pathway while their families were told nothing about the withdrawal of life-saving treatment.

‘This is simply unacceptable,’ he added.....

bobs_uruncle

AutumnWitch657
I have no idea what this means. Death panel???

In Canada it's a group of civic minded individuals that act somewhat like a jury. They determine whether or not a patient who may be comatose, organs failing, possibly brain dead, should be taken off life support and allowed to die. The panel overrules doctors and next of kin in these decisions and makes what they feel is the best decision for the patient, not the government, doctors, next of kin or health care provider.

In the US, death panel has many meanings, it could be;

1. A panel of one, meaning Obama.
2. A panel, group or one member at the NSA or CIA
3. A group of telemarkers working for the health care industry making arbitrary decisions based on bottom line profit and loss statements per individual patient.

Cheers - Dave

edit on 10/22.2013 by bobs_uruncle because: (no reason given)

Umm...No. If the US government did institute a similar system it would be something like the Canadian system or a panel of experts who would be equipped to make that decision.

I don't know if you're joking but 1-3 are ludicrous suggestions.

reply to post by evictiongnostic


SInce you think those suggestions are ludicrous, tell me....
How many are on the panel approving Obama's kill list? You know, the list of people that he has been pulling drone strikes on?

They already had death pannels before Obama. If youre on medicaid and the insurrance companies decide its not worth it to pay money for health care, they send you to hospice. Its nothing really new, just extended to more people.

evictiongnostic

bobs_uruncle

AutumnWitch657
I have no idea what this means. Death panel???

In Canada it's a group of civic minded individuals that act somewhat like a jury. They determine whether or not a patient who may be comatose, organs failing, possibly brain dead, should be taken off life support and allowed to die. The panel overrules doctors and next of kin in these decisions and makes what they feel is the best decision for the patient, not the government, doctors, next of kin or health care provider.

In the US, death panel has many meanings, it could be;

1. A panel of one, meaning Obama.
2. A panel, group or one member at the NSA or CIA
3. A group of telemarkers working for the health care industry making arbitrary decisions based on bottom line profit and loss statements per individual patient.

Cheers - Dave

edit on 10/22.2013 by bobs_uruncle because: (no reason given)

Umm...No. If the US government did institute a similar system it would be something like the Canadian system or a panel of experts who would be equipped to make that decision.

I don't know if you're joking but 1-3 are ludicrous suggestions.

Ok, you stick to that ;-) We already know Obama has a kill list. We already know the CIA performs assassinations. We already know that NAFTA, the TAP and the TPP shift jobs offshore to telemarketers. It's not such a stretch...

Cheers - Dave

JNathanK
They already had death pannels before Obama. If youre on medicaid and the insurrance companies decide its not worth it to pay money for health care, they send you to hospice. Its nothing really new, just extended to more people.

Yes. It happened to my mother. She was very poor, very sick, so they felt it was better to live on hospice than go onto advanced treatment. Interestingly, she spited them and lived on another 4 years.

spacedog1973

jjkenobi
Anyone with an ounce of common sense saw it coming.

And if you have a little more common sense you can see what else is coming. The IRS is in charge of Obamacare. The IRS is already guilty of targeting conservatives and the TEA party. Guess whose names will get pushed to the top of the death panel list?

Did you evens bother to read the link? First you have to provide an argument that defends a family's decision to keep someone alive well beyond any real prospect of recovery and whether by doing so is in the interests of the patient, or exploiting the patient for selfish but understandable reasons of close relatives to keep someone alive, but for all the wrong reasons.

Death panels is an emotive term, made by simpletons, for simpletons. Any investigation into the facts tells a far different story.

just like the ministry of peace that deals with the affairs of war?

spacedog1973

jjkenobi
Anyone with an ounce of common sense saw it coming.

And if you have a little more common sense you can see what else is coming. The IRS is in charge of Obamacare. The IRS is already guilty of targeting conservatives and the TEA party. Guess whose names will get pushed to the top of the death panel list?

Did you evens bother to read the link? First you have to provide an argument that defends a family's decision to keep someone alive well beyond any real prospect of recovery and whether by doing so is in the interests of the patient, or exploiting the patient for selfish but understandable reasons of close relatives to keep someone alive, but for all the wrong reasons.

Death panels is an emotive term, made by simpletons, for simpletons. Any investigation into the facts tells a far different story.

A death panel is a death panel no matter how you want to paint it. When someone other than the family may decide one's fate, there isn't much other story to tell. Anyone who supports this has definitely taken lunacy to another level.

reply to post by Rezlooper

A death panel is a death panel no matter how you want to paint it. When someone other than the family may decide one's fate, there isn't much other story to tell. Anyone who supports this has definitely taken lunacy to another level.

A few points:

1. The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act only requires hospitals to provide uninsured people with stabilizing care. Some uninsured patients are eligible for financial assistance from one or more programs, but none of these programs are paying for life support for "brain dead" people.

2. Health insurance companies are in the business of collecting premiums and paying out as little on claims as possible. Specific diseases may not be covered and approval of payment for treatments can be denied on a number of bases. I don't have estimates on the percentage of plans that will pay for ongoing life support, but I'm guessing it's extremely low. One case that was popular in the media last year was that of R&B artist Usher's stepson from a past marriage, Kyle Glover, whose insurance company "pulled the plug." Hospice care for terminally ill patients is dependent on plan details.

3. In most cases, Medicare doesn't even pay for custodial care (or long-term care) and won't pay to keep somebody on life support indefinitely. Typically, patients get 20 days in a Medicare certified nursing home at 100%, and from days 21 to 100, the patient is responsible for the first $140 per day. However, and this is interesting, in 1972, Congress extended Medicare coverage to cover people with stage five Chronic Kidney Disease (CKD) also known as End Stage Renal Disease (ESRD) and now Medicare covers 90% of people who are being treated for CKD. Hospice care is covered by Medicare.

4. Medicaid apparently does pay for custodial care. Remember Terry Schiavo? Medicaid was paying the $80k a year to keep her alive. In fact, according to the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services in 2001, Medicaid was paying for over 40% of long-term care expenses nationwide. Of course to be eligible for Medicaid, you have to be impoverished with next to no assets. Hospice care is covered by Medicaid.

5. The myth of the "Obamacare Death Panel" primarily stems from comments made by Sarah Palin, one of the least brilliant minds in the political arena. Specifically, she referenced section 1233 of bill HR 3200. This would have paid doctors for voluntarily counseling Medicare patients about advance directives, living wills, and end-of-life care options. Which from my experience, all hospitals will do now anyway. Because many people believed Sarah Palin's misrepresentation of section 1233 (47% of Republicans in fact), it was removed.

I am not a fan of Obamacare. I wanted public funded healthcare or at least a public option but the healthcare lobby is strong and the thought of poor people receiving reduced cost or free anything gets a lot of people worked up into a frothy-mouthed frenzy, fueling rants about Socialism--so we got the mess that we got.

The same group of people behind the myth of the "Obamacare Death Panel" are the ones who actually support letting uninsured people die, including those whose insurance companies stop approving payment (remember, if they're not paying, you're effectively uninsured). Remember when Wolf Blitzer posed the hypothetical of the the uninsured comatose 30 year old to Ron Paul in the 2011 Tea Party Express debate? After garnering cheers from the audience with the "that's what freedom is all about, taking your own risks" portion of his response, he hedged his position with a statement about how when he was practicing medicine in the 60's, "the churches took care of that."

Many of us would rather pay the taxes and not the tithes.