Life Based on Information and not Chemical Reactions - WORD!

Source

In December of 2012, a radical new approach to the question of life's origin was proposed by two Arizona State University scientists that attempts to dramatically redefine the problem. The researchers – Paul Davies, an ASU Regents' Professor and director of the Beyond Center for Fundamental Concepts in Science, and Sara Walker, a NASA post-doctoral fellow at the Beyond Center. "We propose that the transition from non-life to life is unique and definable," added Davies. "We suggest that life may be characterized by its distinctive and active use of information, thus providing a roadmap to identify rigorous criteria for the emergence of life. This is in sharp contrast to a century of thought in which the transition to life has been cast as a problem of chemistry, with the goal of identifying a plausible reaction pathway from chemical mixtures to a living entity."

In a nutshell, the authors shift attention from the "hardware" – the chemical basis of life – to the "software" – its information content.

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

Father in Hebrew is Aleph Bet (Alphabet). DNA represents the letters of creation.

Son in Hebrew is Bet (House) Nun (Seed). Aleph is strength. The Strength of the House is the House of the Seed. In terms of physics, this is the Strong House (Strong Nuclear Force). In terms of life, this is the cell wall (Walled City) of every living system.

Life is formed by the interaction of frequencies and vibration with DNA. Maybe DNA was created by chemistry but that doesn't give it life.

Our world has a bunch of frequencies, if you were to listen to it from far out in space it would sound like a song. If my thought is correct, the word you speak of is a tune or sounds like a song. The earth is a living organism consisting of collective consciousness and sounds/frequencies in a pattern. If this frequency/sound/vibration pattern changes, the interaction with DNA changes and evolution happens.

The earth is not god but it is a part of god. God is the word...or the great frequency/sound/vibration of the universe created when the universe was created. Before it was created there was still god in what it was created from. This "song" is very very old, and it may even be shared with other universes. Although, universe is by definition everything that exists, but since science couldn't comprehend the existance of more than what we see previously, they changed their definition instead of admitting they had erred. So now we have multiverses.

Look at the words multiverse and universe.....The word verse is in them. Verse is a combination of sounds, a combination of words or tunes. Originally people made tunes when they spoke to show paterns, now there is just a bunch of words babbled off with little emotion or tune in the voice here in America. When you talk, you emphasize things with patterns, it is hard to do that in writing. We are messing up in this world by thinking the ancient people weren't smart. They had lots of time to think if there weren't power hungry war mongers around trying to distract them.

S&F for the good thread.

reply to post by EnochWasRight



Can't it be information and chemical reactions...?

You guys are funny.... really

First of all, IT DOESN'T MATTER what "the Book" is telling, Bible, Koran and all other so called holy books were man made. period!
You can not argue God's existence because of a Book.
Some people are actually convinced that Bible is the PROOF of God's existence... think how ridiculous that is!

whatever... now, you guys talking about life, God, creation, this alone is OK but,
and this is the funny part, you are trying to 'combine' religious way of thinking with scientific explanations.

Just because the main stream media talks about Big Bang, Multiple Universe, other Dimensions and other crap, YOU ARE ADAPTING this thoughts and mix them with the religious way of seeing things.

NOW to the chemical reaction / information part
every chemical reaction follows specific rules.
C combine with O and create CO2, YES, they kind of communicate
the CHEMICAL PROPERTY of an molecule 'tells' other molecules if it can combine and create new molecules or not. This information is nothing like WORDS or Book or whatever
call it The language of Property

KrzYma
...
every chemical reaction follows specific rules.
...

If so, explain chirality please.
Why is it possible two (or more) molecules with identical compositions have different structures?

abecedarian

KrzYma
...
every chemical reaction follows specific rules.
...

If so, explain chirality please.
Why is it possible two (or more) molecules with identical compositions have different structures?

sure, increase in complexity



actually this 'mirror' idea is quite stupid, why should an mirror image match with his original ??

A+B+C+D = D+C+B+A
in mathematics you can switch those letters as you want, order of value is not important.
but not if you build/combine something.... try to build a house from the roof on

"prick your finger" and "finger your prick" is not the same

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Once again, the creation/design crowd here is misrepresenting scientific studies to claim they back their ideological beliefs.

As someone who graduated from Arizona State with a degree in biology and psychology, is still active in their academic community, and is very familiar with Professor Davies and the work done at the Beyond Center... They are in no way proposing design or creation. All of the researchers there, see nothing beside evolution by natural means at work. There are no supernatural means at work, in their minds. When they talk about "information", they are not speaking to intelligent causation or are even using that word in the sense you think.

At best, Professor Davies believes in life being pervasive in the universe and would theorize that life originated elsewhere in the universe, as someone who works in cosmology and astrobiology, before finding its way to Earth.

While I think it's great that you shared a piece on their work, you are making connections where there are none.

Such questions have mostly been restricted to religion and philosophy. Now scientists are addressing them too, following spectacular advances in cosmology, subatomic particle physics, molecular biology, genetics and neuroscience. Physicists are busy seeking a way to meld the disparate laws of physics into an embracing mathematical scheme. Biochemists are on the verge of making life in the laboratory, while Biologists are looking for signs of a second genesis on Mars. On every front, science is transforming our world view and challenging age-old assumptions about the nature of the physical universe and our place within it.

Beyond

reply to post by solomons path


I should add . . .

If you were familiar with Davies work, you would realize that when he talks about "information" or "language" of life, he is questioning the concept of biogenesis from his background of theoretical physics and cosmology. Two disciplines that are rooted in mathematics. To Davies, the physical laws that govern the universe are "just right" for the development of life. He holds the philosophical belief, to which he readily admits he has no physical evidence to support, that the language (or information), meaning structure and function not intelligent causation, of life is written into the mathematical constructs of the universe and therefore pervasive. This philosophical belief is what drives his research. However, until life is found elsewhere in the universe there truly his no way to test for this or make predictions on his beliefs.

To chemist and biologists however, it seems way premature to wonder about why the universe is "just right" for life, before we know whether it actually is. To this date, we have only seen life on one planet. It's possible that life is not as fragile as perceived ant thus pervasive, or that requires just the right set of conditions for reactions to take place (goldilocks principle).

Davies work doesn't promote a religious view of life, nor is it purported to by Davies himself.

abecedarian

KrzYma
...
every chemical reaction follows specific rules.
...

If so, explain chirality please.
Why is it possible two (or more) molecules with identical compositions have different structures?

Identical in the same way than left and right-handed spirals can be identical. Why shouldn't this be possible?

reply to post by KrzYma

Bible is the PROOF of God's existence... think how ridiculous that is!

what the hell man.. so Harry Potter is not real? but the book describes his life...You are delusional, Harry Potter does exist!!!the book says so!

luciddream
reply to post by KrzYma

 

Bible is the PROOF of God's existence... think how ridiculous that is!

what the hell man.. so Harry Potter is not real? but the book describes his life...You are delusional, Harry Potter does exist!!!the book says so!

And Stannis is the rightful king of Westeros.

rhinoceros
And Stannis is the rightful king of Westeros.

Only till Khaleesi shows up.

reply to post by Maghda


I think the point of the article was that information is the cause and not the effect from a cause. This reduces evolution to a result and chemical reactions to the same conclusion. Information is at the heart of all we know and can sense. I demonstrated this in these threads. You may find them interesting:

Digital Universe Thread

Holographic Universe

Proof We were Created

Many of my other threads cover the same subjects. THREADS

reply to post by EnochWasRight


looks like universe is codding itself... but in a random way, you never know who you will be "communicating" with the next time and what your property at this time will be.

EnochWasRight "Blah Blah Blah, Science, Blah Science Science Blah,
because Jesus did it"

tehdouglas

EnochWasRight "Blah Blah Blah, Science, Blah Science Science Blah,
because Jesus did it"

"Blah Blah Blah, Science, Blah Science Science Blah,
because Jesus did it"

Not really. Father in Hebrew has ALWAYS been spelled Aleph Bet (Alphabet). His Son (Bet Nun) is the WORD. What do you use to write a word? Letters. What is DNA? Bet means house and nun means seed. Aleph means strong and the Father is the strong house. The word SON in Hebrew is House of Seed. This is elementary biology and physics left in simple language, right out in the open. No need to stretch the imagination to see that God left us with a perfect blueprint for creation. It's word and this is evident by the fact that he left it for us in the past.

You can plug your ears and deny the truth with scoffing all you want. It won't change the simple and evident facts for those of us with some common sense.

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

KrzYma
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

looks like universe is codding itself... but in a random way, you never know who you will be "communicating" with the next time and what your property at this time will be.

If you compare the name Father in Hebrew with what we currently know about quantum mechanics, you see the parallel. Father is Aleph Bet, which means Strong House. It also gives us the word Alphabet in English. The Son of God is called the Word in John 1, which is a parallel to the word SON in Hebrew, which is Bet Nun, or House of Seed. What do we know of DNA as letters making words (Proteins)? We know enough now to say there is a direct connection to what the Bible has said all along.

In physics, laws are derived from the strong nuclear force. In the Bible, this is called good and evil. Compare this to Hydrogen. Hydrogen, before it makes the elements, has ONE electron and ONE proton. This is positive and negative in perfect balance. When we arrive at the elements, there is a neutron added. This makes the strong house, or walled city in every system. The strong nuclear force governs the electron. To arrive at the center of every atom, we need neutrons and protons in balance. The Strong force adheres to invariant symmetry, which is the governing process for all physical law. Electrons (Weak Force) do not adhere to this law. This is why we have movement in nature and this is why we have free will. Apart from the ability of the electron to move from one atom to the other, we would not have individuation from positive and negative. Both are governed by the Proton and Neutron. A Proton has two up quarks and one down. The Neutron has two down and one up. They are imbalanced alone, but balanced together. The electron cannot escape the strong force.

What you are implying above is that nothing guides the process. On the contrary. The electrons cannot escape the strong force. Evil cannot ever gain a foothold on good. It will never happen. Until all things return to balance and unity (High state of order with low entropy), then we will always see cycles repeat. Quantum physics is predictable, even if we do not live long enough to see it happen.

Is God invariant and the same yesterday, today and tomorrow? Then we know the Strong Nuclear Force and the Strong House (Father) are one in the same.

EnochWasRight
If you compare the name Father in Hebrew with what we currently know about quantum mechanics, you see the parallel. Father is Aleph Bet, which means Strong House. It also gives us the word Alphabet in English. The Son of God is called the Word in John 1, which is a parallel to the word SON in Hebrew, which is Bet Nun, or House of Seed. What do we know of DNA as letters making words (Proteins)? We know enough now to say there is a direct connection to what the Bible has said all along.

I love this game. We're playing "how many times can I rearrange the same statement and repeat it in one thread to make a point while quoting the same verse from John" right? You're stretching the bounds of imagination here by taking answers given by science and plugging them into bible quotes to try to make sense of it. If modern Hebrew is a direct corollary to scientific concepts then why isn't paleo-Hebrew which came into being around the time ascribed to Solomon, which was a derivation from Phoenician. Seems a little illogical that the polytheistic Phoenicians would have been the prototype of a monotheistic deities scientific panderings. And why would they need to move from paleo hebrew to modern hebrew? How did Aleph become 'father' when it was originally the word for Ox? Is your god a stubborn beast of burden?

In physics, laws are derived from the strong nuclear force. In the Bible, this is called good and evil. Compare this to Hydrogen. Hydrogen, before it makes the elements, has ONE electron and ONE proton. This is positive and negative in perfect balance. When we arrive at the elements, there is a neutron added. This makes the strong house, or walled city in every system. The strong nuclear force governs the electron. To arrive at the center of every atom, we need neutrons and protons in balance. The Strong force adheres to invariant symmetry, which is the governing process for all physical law. Electrons (Weak Force) do not adhere to this law. This is why we have movement in nature and this is why we have free will. Apart from the ability of the electron to move from one atom to the other, we would not have individuation from positive and negative. Both are governed by the Proton and Neutron. A Proton has two up quarks and one down. The Neutron has two down and one up. They are imbalanced alone, but balanced together. The electron cannot escape the strong force.

you lost me with "Hydrogen, before it makes elements..." because it IS an element. it doesn't make elements.

What you are implying above is that nothing guides the process. On the contrary. The electrons cannot escape the strong force. Evil cannot ever gain a foothold on good. It will never happen. Until all things return to balance and unity (High state of order with low entropy), then we will always see cycles repeat. Quantum physics is predictable, even if we do not live long enough to see it happen.

The only thing I've seen demonstrated here is a flawed understanding of chemical bonds, nothing to show that these processes are guided by an omnipotent magician. Understanding cyclical nature is not evidence of supernatural guidance.

Is God invariant and the same yesterday, today and tomorrow? Then we know the Strong Nuclear Force and the Strong House (Father) are one in the same.

but nobody has ever seen god. physicists have actually seen how these forces interact. just because you want them to become a scenario of 'correlation DOES equal causation doesn't make it so. not only that, but if you want to buy into the judeo-christian texts then God is not the same at the beginning of Judaism(polytheism) as who he was during the era of Solomon and David and then 2000 years ago he takes a hard right turn from turning people into pillars of salt, burning entire cities and flooding the earth because he's a spiteful prick who gets angry like a toddler to sending out a demigod preaching love and compassion in his name. Are you sure your God isn't running for US congress?

AugustusMasonicus

rhinoceros
And Stannis is the rightful king of Westeros.

Only till Khaleesi shows up.

Yes, when she gets there with full grown dragons there will be heck to pay lol.

What I find even more interesting is how many scientists are evolving and finding that science and god can coexist. How many scientists are now scratching their heads and saying well Yea something or someone did have to create that bang after all. Lol

To the guy about to pop a vein, wouldn't you rather believe that if you do pop that vein that there is is something more waiting. I sure choose to believe there is.

It would be a sad life thinking there is no God.

The Bot

reply to post by peter vlar


I see your scoffing and I will raise you the mathematical constant e in John 1.

SOURCE: LINK

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

In Greek:

John 1:1 in Greek

"...if you take the numerical value of each of the Greek letters (see chart), and the numerical value of the words, and apply them to the same formula:

The number of letters x the product of the letters
The number of words x the product of the words

You now get 2.7183 x 1040, the value of e."

This sounds like a statistical coincidence until you then go to the parallel verse in Genesis 1. You get Pi with verse one of Genesis 1. See the link above.