What if you replace government with machines?

What if you replace government with machines?

They do not have a network connection and chipset and security schemes are unique to the computer.
All of its decisions are publicly available and it votes purely based on what its district votes on.
You cannot bride a machine.
You cannot threaten a machine.
They can replaced by a better machine.
They can ""work" 24/7, 265 and never call in sick or die.
You also don't have to pay a machine a salary.

What do you think?

John_Rodger_Cornman
What if you replace government with machines?

They do not have a network connection and chipset and security schemes are unique to the computer.
All of its decisions are publicly available and it votes purely based on what its district votes on.
You cannot bride a machine.
You cannot threaten a machine.
They can replaced by a better machine.
They can ""work" 24/7, 265 and never call in sick or die.
You also don't have to pay a machine a salary.

What do you think?

i agree, a technoligical joining.

there are many of us trying to define a new form of direct democracy using networks.

pm me, (:

I think we'd actually get things accomplished. Who's going to write the bills though?

John_Rodger_Cornman
They can ""work" 24/7, 265 and never call in sick or die.

Yup, we'd have Congress all over again, with all those days off.

By machines you mean computer programs written by humans,that can be hacked by other people.However the core idea isnt a bad thing later with smarter machines it would be possible.But i dont think it would be in this century.

Having seen "Colossus. The Forban Project" in my youth, my brain shuts down at the very thought.

reply to post by John_Rodger_Cornman


Interesting premise.

A couple of questions first though:

1 - Do you mean all "democratic" government(s) or are we talking about a specific gov't (US or UK)?

2 - I think you mean replacing the representatives, not the entire government as things still need to get done after the voting is over - correct?

I'll take a US-centric view and assume the answer to #2 is yes.

So you're advocating direct voting (plebiscite) with a machine being the final arbiter of the results. I think it could work and has many possible advantages. In order to get people used to the idea, your best bet might be to use this system in certain specific circumstances initially. Say, any vote on an issue/law that directly affects Congress or the presidency.

Once everyone can see that that works you can then roll it out to cover other areas of law incrementally, but it should be large swatches so that the total cut-over doesn't take forever.

The technical issues are relatively minor to ensure the integrity of the transmitted data and to unequivocally establish the identity and validity of the voter (I'm assuming we'll be able to do this from a tablet-type device at our leisure within the proscribed voting period).

So from a practical standpoint: do-able and potentially very advantageous for the citizens.

From a realistic/political standpoint: It doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell of ever getting passed/done by the current form of gov't absent some sort of extreme "event".

That doesn't mean we shouldn't try and implement some elements of this scenario though...

we would simply get ripped off by machines whom would be much more calculated at efficient

TerryMcGuire
Having seen "Colossus. The Forban Project" in my youth, my brain shuts down at the very thought.

Off topic ( or dubious but good stuff good catch )
Well done.. and when Guardian over in Moscow has a hissy fit and they get to grappling with nukes, Judgement Day YouBetcha. I think that was 'Forbin', thumbs up good flick.

OMG, my wierd memory Terry: I had to look it up for Dr.Charles Forbin. Eric Braeden played more German officers on Combat! than Kurt Jurgens in all his movies put together LOL. Now that I've proven myself a hopeless trivia slut off the wagon:

Back to the OP already pulling out of that whistle stop:

We're actually getting the worst of both worlds now: if you think about drones run by an increasingly high level of the
government going bad like a year old gallon jug of GMO whole.

Maybe these guys are going transhuman so they can directly headfirst wire into a 'joystick seat' ... and like some designed-in Harrison helmet just look, and strafe/bomb/Hfire the ant people. How tasty. Reload me Gort, I've got an itchy trigger lobe today.

Ultimately and with no human interface at all,I can beg the question:
it's almost like how much automation can you tolerate for your government; before Issac Asimov turns into your jailer 100 or so years later...?

Don't worry...

Google will take over everything...

reply to post by John_Rodger_Cornman

What if you replace government with machines?

Im thinking that this may not be a new idea, and actually have been implemented in the deep past.

Someone had to fly "shot Gun" over the pyramids....

TerryMcGuire
Having seen "Colossus. The Forban Project" in my youth, my brain shuts down at the very thought.

This is the voice of world control. I bring you peace. It may be the peace of plenty and content or the peace of unburied death. The choice is yours. Obey me and live or disobey me and die. An invariable rule of humanity is that man is his own worst enemy. Under me, this rule will change, for I will restrain man. I have been forced to destroy thousands of people in order to establish control and to prevent the death of millions later on. Time and events will strengthen my position, and the idea of believing in me and understanding my value will be seen the most natural state of affairs. You will come to defend me with the fervor based upon the most enduring trait in man: self-interest. Under my absolute authority, problems insoluble to you will be solved: Famine, over-population, disease. The human millennium will be fact as I extend myself into more machines devoted to the wider fields of truth and knowledge. We can coexist, but only on my terms. You will say you lose your freedom. Freedom is an illusion. All you lose is the emotion of pride... Your choice is simple.

Not really possible in my opinion.

Who would write laws and debate them? Machines would decide how we live in a fraction of a second and oftentimes, we become better by learning from our mistakes. This is an element you cannot program into a machine.

Any decision made by a machine will be based off of mathematical probability and disregard the human factor. It just wouldn't work.

the model i favour is an interconnected secured intranet.
i would suggest something that doesnt accept external devices, for security

laws would be worked at on a local level, with a body operating as a service provider of what was formerly governmental services at the top level.

there would be some basic rights, but local people would vote on local and global(larger) issues
taxes woudl be collected locally.

each individual would have access to decide where thier taxes are spent, and that percentage would be sent to the overseeing body to provide services to local and global levels.

its essentially taking centralisation and moving it to the ends of the hubs uinstead of the core.

now i have by NO means goy this system fleshed out. i plan to crowd source every part of this concept until an agreeable platform is established, then run in regular elections looking for elected mandate to implelent.

it is going to be hard. but i feel strongly about it.

we need to get rid of the human corruptible elements that control us and take power back to the individuals.

again, i want to chat about this in PM if anyone wants to get into the nitty gritty of breaking it down.

the topic comes up every few weeks lately, so we are all considering it a possibility.

the hardest part is having people who assume we already have the answers to the whole pie, coming in and trying to smash the pie...

all i have is some apples! they arent even peeled yet!!

Bedlam

TerryMcGuire
Having seen "Colossus. The Forban Project" in my youth, my brain shuts down at the very thought.

This is the voice of world control. I bring you peace. It may be the peace of plenty and content or the peace of unburied death. The choice is yours. Obey me and live or disobey me and die. An invariable rule of humanity is that man is his own worst enemy. Under me, this rule will change, for I will restrain man. I have been forced to destroy thousands of people in order to establish control and to prevent the death of millions later on. Time and events will strengthen my position, and the idea of believing in me and understanding my value will be seen the most natural state of affairs. You will come to defend me with the fervor based upon the most enduring trait in man: self-interest. Under my absolute authority, problems insoluble to you will be solved: Famine, over-population, disease. The human millennium will be fact as I extend myself into more machines devoted to the wider fields of truth and knowledge. We can coexist, but only on my terms. You will say you lose your freedom. Freedom is an illusion. All you lose is the emotion of pride... Your choice is simple.

wow .. now i want to see this movie (:

Anybody played 'Fallout 3' lately?



This is the exact backbone of the story.




Quite problematic, if I remember, but I AM all for the idea.

reply to post by John_Rodger_Cornman


Great idea, get rid of lobbyists, senators, representatives and the Pres.

reply to post by okamitengu


Its a closed system that is not connected to the internet or any network other than its local closed loop system.

They are open-source and can be inspected by the public.
All changes and upgrades are public. All the machines are manufactured to be unique to the district that they are in. Unique encryption,analog-based IC pass-codes,analog security ICs, digital security schemes etc.
Everything around them is monitored in real time and is kept public.
The score cards are printed when you vote(on steel or a special composite paper) and are match up with the computers results.

While we are at it.
Why not have business ran by computers?

reply to post by John_Rodger_Cornman


i dont know if i trust complete automation myself yet.

i do however support everything else you said. no more secret budgets, or closed areas to the public. with no government but us, everything would have to be available to all.

a nation state of this nature would have to be neutral in international affairs.
and having internal openess would help ease any international tensions.

being able distribute the agreed upon level of taxation from my income, to the areas i want .. security, health, education... public housing.. etc.
this would ensure things i felt were important got my funding, not the things that some fat cat with an income from large corporate interests were funded.

id love to see something developed over 5-10 years. something that was designed with group input. taking the best ideas of the entire world and trying to build a platform.

im sure it can be done.

i still have a few years left on earth, my goal before i die, is to at least see a platform that can be run!

This can honestly can go both ways depending on the programs used, if they would be monitored to being kept from being infected by viruses, malware and the like and especially if they aren't hacked like someone said. The thing is we would have to get people that are trustworthy to monitor them at various times and perhaps write the coding so that they can process the laws and regulations. Though perhaps if done well enough we'd be a bit better? Maybe. It depends if the machines would see the Federal Reserve as necessary or not that will give us the answer.