Bullying, Then And Now.

First off, I should admit, that I am in my 40’s. Hate to admit that, but for the purpose of this thread, it’s necessary. Because I can relate, from the “then” side of this issue. I was bullied.

It first happened to me, in 4th grade, when I was in an inner city school. I had a young lady, threaten to beat me up, every day for at least a month. When another girl finally confronted the bully for me, she asked why she was doing this. Her response? “to see if she could make me cry.” Well, she did. It hurt, but I never told my mom about it. We were poor, and she had plenty of ammunition to get me to cry every day. The thing is, with bullying back then, even if you had a bully, or a group of them, as girls are known to do, you always had friends that would stand by you, if only one or two.

Well, luckily, in 5th grade, we moved to a small town, were I thought things would be different. Yeah, I was wrong. My mom had remarried, so we weren’t exactly poor anymore, but 80% of the kids I went to school with now had designer clothes, huge homes and had been in school together since kindergarten. So, I was again picked on, just for being new. It wasn’t as bad as before, so I just dealt. I made a few friends, managed to get through to middle school, where it stopped for the most part and things were good.

I only had one problem later, and that was in high school. It went on for about a week. Finally, my little 95 lb. self had had enough. I met her after school. Needless to say, she never picked on me again and wanted to be friends afterwards.

Now, I never became a bully to anyone else. I did have one instance, when a girl on our bus was picking on my younger sister.

I did slap that girl in the face, and tell her she better not do it again, or I would do worse to her. I handled it in one day, then left her alone.
Now, my mom got a phone call from her mom. I was expecting to be in a lot of trouble. Never happened. My mom politely told her, she should ask her daughter why it happened, and if she didn’t understand why after her daughter told her, she would send me up to explain. I never had to go, and my sister never had another problem.

The thing about bulling back then, was that it was always local. It was always to your face. And I’m not sure if it was just a girl thing, but I always had at least one friend that I could talk to about it. And the big thing was, when we became a family, was that both of my parents let me know it was ok to defend myself, and that I could talk to them.

The problem with bullying now, from what I’ve seen, and read about, is that there are so many ways to get to the victim. First you have the face to face, old school behavior. At school, on the bus, walking home, etc.

But my goodness, think about how many other angles they can come at other kids these days. It is mind boggling. You have the social media, where one post, true or not, can become viral. You’ve got things like photoshop, where you can make things up that could ruin a person. You’ve got youtube, where you can do the same. You’ve got every child with a cell phone, texting multiple people at a time.

Ok, so the victim should just stay off the internet right? Fine. But does that keep the bully from posting things about you, and spreading them? So, you still go to school the next day, with the whole school making fun of you for something you never even said or did?

It just boggles my mind, that while technology has done so much, we seem to be raising more and more children per generation, that do not understand consequences, and lack compassion, somewhat due to not having to see your consequences first hand. Face it, you can be a bully today, without ever having to face you victim, or even really knowing who they are!

I don’t blame all this on technology. I think it is a combination of things. We have parents that are not involved in their children’s lives, allowing technology to “babysit”. We have the “coddling” of our children, through schools with their ridiculous rules, so nobody’s feelings get hurt and nobody loses. We have schools with no common sense, teaching children that if they get spanked, that is child abuse and should call the police. We have court systems for juveniles, telling parents that these children have more rights than the parents and then not enforcing the probation these children may be put on. And don’t even get me started on the whole “drugging our youth” culture we seem to be accepting.

So where does that leave us?
With a young girl, actually making a post after another takes her own life, saying that she doesn’t give a F.
I don’t think things were perfect, when I was young. But the changes that were made, trying to “fix” the problems of then, have went so far to the other end of the spectrum, I honestly am afraid for future generations. I don't know of a quick fix. I don't believe we just need more laws. I do believe we need more parents to actually parent. Beyond that, there aren't any easy answers.

chiefsmom
Beyond that, there aren't any easy answers.

This is actually the root of a great number of our ills right now.

Anytime I hear someone say "we must do something so this never happens again" my innermost being screams out in horror and terror pleading with them saying "Don't you see how that always creates something worse!?!!?"

There aren't easy answers. Trying to find them prevents us from dealing with reality. Trying to prevent reality creates bigger monsters we have to then deal with.

Our attempts at over protection has just invited in even stronger social dynamics. No different fundamentally from how we've created stronger bacteria due to the over-use of antibiotics.

One thing we've lost sight of is that if kids don't work out these problems as kids... they just take them into adulthood and make life hell for everyone.

The trend in bullying that i noticed in the UK over the years, is that its gone from kids that know each other and know how to 'get to' their target, whats far more common these days is bulling based from random attacks on more trivial yet obvious differences.

People move locations more than they used to and in greater numbers than ever before, both internationally and nationally.

Far more: racial, gender, religious, class and style backgrounds.

I would expect this to be accelerated in the UK due to the vast number of different cultural backgrounds we have compared to the states, which is growing rapidly but, far far behind the UK still (not a good or a bad thing imo).

Bulling seems to have got lazier.

reply to post by chiefsmom


Arm your children with a sharp tongue and thick skin. That is all you can do.

Trying to control another persons behavior, particularly a child, is like beating your head against the wall. Don't even try. Control what you can control.

I armed my youngest son with a sharp tongue and heavy fists. He can eviscerate his schoolmates either verbally, or by rolling on the ground.

Then I armed him with a father that was obstinate. When the school claimed they had a zero tolerance policy, they got backed down. Consequently, when he dispatched bullies, they would get beat up and get suspended, while he got to go on to class. Talk about sending a message to those little punks!!!

I had a few bullies mess with me as a kid. It was always way older kids, since I was a big kid. Learning how to deal with them is part of what shaped my life.

I think its important for parents to support their children in dealing with their problems. But these problems....they are something that has be learned to deal with.

reply to post by BardingTheBard


I agree with you, to a point. In my own example, I dealt with it, and I think I'm stronger for it. But it was one on one.
My concern is the pack mentality that we are seeing, especially with cyberbullying. Kids are jumping on the bandwagon, without even knowing what is going on between the original bully and victim.

I guess I'm leaning alot tward's the whole, parents being actual parents. And the government actually letting them.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Thankfully, Both of my boys are in their 20's. I raised them the way I was raised. Yes, like you said, it caused some problems with the schools, but I had those for different reasons as well, and really didn't care what they thought.

I guess it is getting to me know, because I'm about to be a grandma, and worry how much worse it could be by the time they get in school.

reply to post by chiefsmom

I am old too. (44) I remember being in 2nd grade and picking on a kid who was not at cool as the rest. I was actually picked on for the same reason by a few, but decided that this kid was further down the food chain. After a few days, his much bigger and older sister came by and beat the crap out of me. It was about that time, that I realized being a bully has it's pitfalls. That one lesson shaped me for the rest of my life. I brought up my kids to be good to everyone and if you see someone getting bullied, and you can fix it so it doesn't happen again, do it and I will not punish you as long as you did the right thing. My son did just that one day and made me very proud. He is in the "in" crowd, but took the time to show all the other kids that looking out for others is the right thing to do. Now, if I could just get him to clean his damn room.......

reply to post by chiefsmom


Aww.. I hate your mood says broken hearted...

I was bullied. I'm 29. Yes we had Internet in all but it wasn't used as much as it is today.
I remember just chat rooms you would go into and just chat. No one was really mean and there were so very few trolls.

I was bullied face to face. I was weak. I am a little person size wise...so I was very timid and never wanted any conflict cause I felt that this girl would break me in half. It got bad in high school. See when I was 16, I tried to take my life with pills.
After that incident and hospital stays and behavioral wards... I went back to school and no one knew. This girl continued to bully me. I called my mom everyday to come pick me up. Oh and btw..they put me on anti-depressants so it made my mood unstable for sure.

My mom was pregnant when this was happening and she came up to the school and had a meeting with me and the counselor and they said they would tell the girl to leave me alone. I was so scared, cause I thought it would make it worse.

What's wild..is she actually ended up being shipped off to a boarding school...I wasn't the only one she was terrorizing..

My only true friend I had didn't go to that school, she was homeschooled. I had a guy that would stick up for me, but it never helped.

Anyway..sorry for rambling about my dumb past.

I saw where someone said that bullying has gotten lazier...maybe so, but being bullied in any form or fashion hurts you deep inside.

Peace and love
-nat

Eta-- I am scared for my boy but at the same time not. I've talked to him plenty about bullying. He's only 8, but he sure tells me of stories of other kids getting picked on and he's the guy who stands up for them...I'm a proud mama.

I'm in my 50s, and have Asperger's. We are the automatic targets of bullies because of our obvious differences, and our inability to read social cues and the subtleties that other children can pick up on. At least back then the bullying was pretty much limited to school time. Now it is constant, pervasive, and even crueler.

I have to admit, with my own children, I was hyper-sensitive to them getting bullied. I was the insane mother who would confront the bullies, confront the school, and raise hell over it. In the end, my kids had to learn to fight back. Trying to teach them to learn to use words in the face of bullying doesn't work at that age...they have to physically kick some butt for it to stop. That is the sad reality of it.

One of my dear friends had a 14 year old daughter who was being bullied mercilessly in high school. Rather than face one more day of it, she hung herself in her closet. I often think of this poor child when I see the bullying going on today....the cruelty in school, the nasty posts on Facebook, the predatory gangs of kids who are miserable and can only feel good when they are enjoying the pain and emotional devastation of their hapless victims.

Schools have "zero tolerance" for pretending that your hand is a gun, or for drugs....but bullying continues on, much as it has throughout the centuries where we have forced kids to be together. In my day, we were pretty miserable as it was occurring, but the recent trends in suicide is fairly new. What is the answer? I often think of dear Ally, who was barely beginning her life, and how she chose to end it so abruptly. Young people who would rather check out permanently is an alarming twist on this very old problem.

It WILL get better, kids. Never choose a permanent solution for a temporary problem.

reply to post by natalia


Don't apologize hun, great reply, not dumb!!!! I'm sorry you had to go through that, and so glad your here with us now!

Can I ask you a question though? As hard as it was to go through all that, do you think you are better or worse for it?
Honestly, myself, I feel better for it, because if nothing else, I know how it feels, and can't imagine ever doing it to anyone else.

(and the heartbroken is for the loss of yet another dog, but I'm getting past it slowly, thank you for that though!)

reply to post by FissionSurplus


You bring up two interesting issues.
First, is it just me, or are girls really about 100X worse with bullying than boys?
Second, if we could just kids to understand that even if you can't fix it now, if you can just make it out of school, 99% of the time, the whole world can be completely different and better once you are out.

reply to post by chiefsmom


I think I wouldn't be who I am today if that hadn't happened. It was one of my many tests in this life. And I knew how it felt and I would stick up ,the best I could, for anyone else who was being bullied. I couldn't stand and nor can I stand for anyone to bully anyone for anything.

I'm sorry about the loss of your dog...I know it hurts. Animals are like our children. I've just got my two black cats.

-nat

Eta--- I noticed how you said are girls worse than boys..sometimes I think so... I always hear that saying in my head..don't trust anything that bleeds for seven days and lives.. I hope that's not against any t&c for saying that...

I think girls are worse and more vicious. Guys seems to just fight it out and then they are best buds. But like you and said you fought it out and it worked out... So idk..

chiefsmom
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

Thankfully, Both of my boys are in their 20's. I raised them the way I was raised. Yes, like you said, it caused some problems with the schools, but I had those for different reasons as well, and really didn't care what they thought.

I guess it is getting to me know, because I'm about to be a grandma, and worry how much worse it could be by the time they get in school.

I exert tremendous influence over the children in my family. I am unlike them...they all make excuses for failure to comfort them. That just pisses me off...but i digress.

reply to post by chiefsmom


I think that girls can be much crueler, since they often operate in gangs. The pressure on young girls to be sexualized and perfect at an awkward time in their life....the pressure to have a perfect face and body, to be wanted by boys, etc., and the fact that girls see other girls as competition in this quest for being lusted after, is a huge factor.

My older daughter, who has borderline Asperger's, ended up just kicking anybody's ass who messed with her. My younger daughter was part of the popular crowd, but thanks to my teaching her, and her own natural empathy, she would stop any bullying she saw.

Guys have a "bro code". Girls will throw their best friend under the bus over a boy they like. Sad but true, girls are a thousand times worse.

Bullies are slick! Whether at school or work or socially they crave this power trip. They plan their attack while others try to go about they're business and are ambushed by the bully. Also the bully often does not work alone he/she needs backup with others to complete the task that makes them feel powerful.

Things have changed, a lot. I was bullied too, because we moved so much I was always the new kid. I learned through that how to make friends in most places. There were always ways to alienate someone, and make them feel bad, but as you mentioned, the Internet and current technologies spread the bullies from the few to encompass seemingly everyone. It hurts when the popular kids make fun of you, but when that turns into community ridicule, it takes it to a very dangerous place.

Rather than kids learning compassion, they simply learn that they don't want be on the receiving end of the ridicule and join in. Kids aren't taught that individuality is a positive thing, often because parents don't believe it themselves. We have a generation of kids being raised by adults who refuse to grow up themselves in large part. It's all about instant gratification.

One of my reasons to start homeschooling my son is because one young man was not only bullying him, but physically hurting him on a regular basis. They were only first graders, and he had already learned that it was the way to get what he wanted. My biggest frustration with the situation is that it was always excused. I was actually lied to about the final injury that he gave my son. An adult bandaged it, and I got 3 different stories as to what actually happened. In the desire to shelter this boy from the big bad world, they taught him to be bigger and badder and completely ignored my son's calls for help. We have taught him to stand up for himself, and that actually got him in trouble after he was abused by this kid, or ignored completely because they didn't want to confront this issue.

People need to learn to be strong and stand up to this, but that is really hard when they are never taught how. Personal strength is going the way of common sense it seems some days. It's always easier to have an excuse or a distraction instead. Unfortunately, those are also becoming the most accepted ways to deal with things. I was actually told that "kids will be kids" by an administrator at that school when another incident happened with a different kid on his bus one day, even though the bus driver told me that it was an ongoing problem from the year before. That's where I had reason to be proud of my boy, he looked at the kid, told him " no that's inappropriate, and told the bus driver about the incident. He then told me what happened on our way home. That was also the day that taught him that mama will stand up for him for doing the right thing.

PS I am very sorry about your pup, each furry kid is special.

reply to post by woodsmom

We have a generation of kids being raised by adults who refuse to grow up themselves in large part. It's all about instant gratification.

I think you are right! And I guess that is what scares me now, since I have been thinking about these stories in the news, and what it will be like for my grandsons. Because now, the children that were raised that way, are having children. I've been talking to my son about these issues and I at least have hope for them. Because they are going to be raised, as much as possible, the same way he, and myself were. Treat people the way you want to be treated, but stand up for your self, and we will deal with the consequences.
And if daddy doesn't take care of it, beware the wrath of grandma! LOL

FissionSurplus
reply to post by chiefsmom

 

I think that girls can be much crueler, since they often operate in gangs. The pressure on young girls to be sexualized and perfect at an awkward time in their life.... [sic] Guys have a "bro code". Girls will throw their best friend under the bus over a boy they like. Sad but true, girls are a thousand times worse.

I think they're unique experiences.

For example, it would be easy to point out the suicide rate of men in comparison to this, or the inherent homophobia that appears in the 'bro code'. Then someone could point out the sexual nature of boys bullying girls and the patriarchal culture, and then someone coul- ... it pretty much goes on forever!

I think the biggest mistake we make in these areas at times is trying to break it into genders and compare them.

SPYvsSPY
Bullies are slick! Whether at school or work or socially they crave this power trip. They plan their attack while others try to go about they're business and are ambushed by the bully. Also the bully often does not work alone he/she needs backup with others to complete the task that makes them feel powerful.

I'm not sure.

I think any generalization here is a huge risk. Many bullies I've met are running on automatic. They often lack forward thinking and they're impulsive. Some of these people I've met much later and they're very regretful. Children often don't understand the impact of their stupidity and parents put too much faith in their kids instead of working out why they feel the need to act certain ways.

woodsmom
Rather than kids learning compassion, they simply learn that they don't want be on the receiving end of the ridicule and join in.

Don't disagree, but I think it's that parents have been incredibly defensive of what children learn. Teachers are afraid of those boundaries.

Some of your story speaks to me because I was surrounded by teachers as a child that didn't want to 'get involved' and hand waved things away with pithy excuses. Teachers didn't and still don't want to take a stand against parents in most countries, they just want the problem to go away.

We need mentors, not teachers. When a bullying situation occurs it should be an opportunity to learn for all children involved but mostly I've just seen parents at each other's throats and teachers hiding under desks.

woodsmom
We have a generation of kids being raised by adults who refuse to grow up themselves in large part. It's all about instant gratification.

I honestly think in most Western countries violence and crime are in a decline, but if I had to say ...

I think it's we've had a generation of children brought up by adults how had no idea what the internet is and now that generation is having kids. Children and young adults have gone from having information drip fed from newspapers, parents, and class mates to knowing more than their parents within a single generation.

We're bombarded by information every second of every day including this concept of the 'bullying epidemic' and how much your parents suck. How are children supposed to respect their parents when all they hear is that the baby boomers are greedy, everyone else is lazy and we all need to 'harden up'???

It's going to take a number of generations for humans to adjust to having the internet, and older generations should try to understand and support their children through that. I hope history doesn't remember the last 20 years as 'that time when parents hated their children'.

Stuff to think about anyway. Enjoy.