Obama's plans for America: Taxes and Immigration

whyamIhere

Nobody knows a damn thing about these 20 million people.

Well we know one thing if they're here in the US illegally. They're all criminals.

I don't have anything against immigration as long as it's legal AND as long as it isn't increased to serve a specific group (in this case the democratic party) or undermine our citizens. In this case it's pretty clear it's both.

Yeaa Im having a little bit of an issue with some of the logic in this thread about taxes and welfare.

WE know when you have an influx of population, you get more workers, thus you collect more taxes so there is no real need to increase current taxes. The working population added does that on its own.
We know when you have an influx in population but you do not provide the same chances and opportunities to the new group as the native group, you get less in taxes.

When an immigrant pays into the system, tax system, hes not paying into social security and welfare. Right? Why because he is not paying into social security and welfare like you do per check deductions. You have to be a citizen to do this and a citizen to collect it. So what do you do logically? You legalize the immigrant so that he is. Now he is paying all the same taxes as you are and eligible for those benefits which in the end go right back into the pot.

Meanwhile, this added person is working, paying taxes and reproducing, thus helping to maintain the population.

What am I missing?

reply to post by Nephalim


Letting in 33 million more immigrants will increase the income tax base for the feds, that's a big win for them I suppose. It won't do anything for the tens of millions of unemployed US citizens. We can't even take care of our own people at this point but a portion of the country is completely oblivious to this.

Additionally a 10-13 year path to citizenship won't do anything in regard to your mention of immigrants paying into the system. On top of that there is no attempt to secure our borders even though there is some lip service, the illegals will continue to come.

My main point on increased taxes though was that Obama wants the sequester overturned allowing for an additional $10 trillion in revenues over the next decade. Additionally he wants to "negotiate" on the current budget and taxes. All in all that's a lot of cash on the table and I think I have a good idea who's going to foot the bill, again.

reply to post by Bassago


While the Fed look at it as a voters increases and tax increases is no as nice and pretty as it sounds. I look upon those 33 millions of how many will be added to the welfare system in the nation at the expenses of the taxable working class, obviously the last amnesty didn't do anything to help the tax revenues as we are now facing record deficits and record increases in welfare. Sorry to say but by the time that the working able from the immigration reform portion starts to get enough revenue for the federal government to make a dent it will have exhausted the already exhausted productive working class in the nation, taking also into consideration that you can not add more work force in a nation that is lacking work.

Immigration amnesty bill would instantly put millions on welfare

Creating lifelong Democrats

Page 91 of the amnesty bill says that all illegal immigrations given RPI status shall be "lawfully present" in the country:

(4) TREATMENT OF REGISTERED PROVISIONAL IMMIGRANTS. - A noncitizen granted registered provisional immigrant status under this section shall be considered lawfully present in the United States for all purposes while such noncitizen remains in such status...

Sessions' staff further notes that, when evaluating whether an illegal immigrant qualifies for RPI status, the amnesty bill "explicitly forbids" DHS from using current law, which presently blocks entry to any illegal immigrant who could become "public charges" - that is, someone who would become dependent upon taxpayer-supported welfare programs.

"Therefore, when those here illegally who are unable to support themselves are legalized, much of the immediate fiscal burden will fall on state and local governments," Sessions' staff said in the memo.

Learn more: www.naturalnews.com...

Thanks to a big loophole within the mammoth bill as usual.

At a time when the U.S. government is spending a trillion dollars more a year than it takes in, it makes no sense at all for our elected leaders to be considering any legislation that adds to the federal deficit, which is already more than 100 percent of our entire gross domestic product.

And yet, that's exactly the kind of legislation dominating the discussion and debate in Washington, D.C. What's worse, the people who would benefit from this new, costly legislation, aren't even American citizens.

This loophole will increase the influx of more illegals into the country

"The Gang of Eight made a promise that illegal immigrants will not be able to access public benefits," Sessions said in a statement to Breitbart News. "We already know that, once granted green cards and ultimately citizenship, illegal immigrants will be able to access all public benefit programs at a great cost to taxpayers. We have, however, identified a number of loopholes that would allow illegal immigrants to draw public benefits even sooner than advertised."

If you've not heard anything about this little hidden loophole, once again you can - and should - chastise the echo-chamber, far-left mainstream media, which has systemically failed to ask probing questions regarding this massive bill.

If the measure becomes law as is, the nation's 11 to 14 million illegal aliens would be legalized within a half a year

reply to post by jimmyx


Oh Jimmy...Jimmy Jimmy Jimmy.

Wise up will you?

I was born here- I was raised here- I enlisted here- I pay taxes here- I vote here- I went to school here
- Ive worked here- I performed here- ive volunteered here-Ive helped the homeless here- Ive been in sports here
-Ive had many friends here.

Why would I have to be the one who leaves when I have done as much as I could to help make not only myself a better person, but my peoples as well. (And yes-that includes you too).

Im not the one destroying this country- Im not the one making bad decisions for millions of people. I didnt vote
for these clowns based on party over principle.

Im not part of the problem. Maybe its you that is the problem. Maybe its you that should be the one who should leave. While your at it- Take your fake ass president with you, and all of the retards he has appointed in his fake ass cabinet.

Thank you for the Volley.

Bassago
reply to post by Nephalim

 

Letting in 33 million more immigrants will increase the income tax base for the feds, that's a big win for them I suppose. It won't do anything for the tens of millions of unemployed US citizens. We can't even take care of our own people at this point but a portion of the country is completely oblivious to this.

Sir, do you understand that I am part of the 33 million? We are not illegals. We are you. WE have birth certificates, identification cards, social security ect.. Your whole assumption is based on ignorance. The issue you're talking about is the 11 million and the children they have when they come here. These children are citizens BY LAW. Their parents are not.

Am I making sense? Ok now onto your next point. You said this.

Additionally a 10-13 year path to citizenship won't do anything in regard to your mention of immigrants paying into the system. On top of that there is no attempt to secure our borders even though there is some lip service, the illegals will continue to come.

From what I understand they are still not elible for benefits until that citizenship is complete. Thus, you have not been drained of anything. "Additionally" according to the USDA data showing that in 2011, 37 percent of food stamp users (pdf) were from white, non-Hispanic households. followed by blacks around 20% and finally hispanics at around 10-11%

You with me?

reply to post by Nephalim


I used to work for an Immigration lawyer, here in GA I don't understand how can you have all those IDs without been a legal citizen, I also worked with the city on migrant workers and their American and none American born children and their rights.

But that was 11 years ago, perhaps you can enlighten me on "new laws", because beside workers cards I don't see how you got all that as a none citizen.

marg6043
reply to post by Nephalim

 

I used to work for an Immigration lawyer, here in GA I don't understand how can you have all those IDs without been a legal citizen, I also worked with the city on migrant workers and their American and none American born children and their rights.

But that was 11 years ago, perhaps you can enlighten me on "new laws", because beside workers cards I don't see how you got all that as a none citizen.

well the fourteenth is in constitution. and the thirteenth right?
The immigration legs (both sides are working on or were) are probably more in line with that. But this whole thing about mass amnesty, meh its likely a bit overstated. and these guys you see at home depot, heck just pick up the phone and call ICE. Its their job to sort that out. But what theyve been saying basically is that if the kids were BORN here, they're you. Which raises concerns because how do you deport parents and not the legal children you see.

reply to post by Nephalim


I am very aware of how citizenship works in the nation, but that means you are a citizen?. Because at least 11 years ago the path to citizenship was a long one expensive and very complicated, the lawyer I used to work for as yes "an interpreter" used to charge up front 5 thousand dollars just to get the paper work started.

I guess things has change since then.

reply to post by marg6043


lol ok. If you come here, you have to go through immigration correct? The other method is through an approved visa. If in the time that you come here you have children, you are not citizen but your children are. They were born here. This implies that they :
A: have a birth certificate and forms of ID
B: Their parents have either finished their immigrant process or haven't.
C: action needs to be taken, or not which depends on D
D: are you a lowlife criminal who does harm to the nation or takes advantage of it's open hand in crappy ways.

The term "illegals" applies to those who cross without any permission at all. Those are usually the ones folks gripe about. It's really not this huge thing where "omfg we're being invaded" or anything. Its more like take better care of the borders at weak points and get the "Illegals" to go through the proper channels from now on so we don't have to deal with this again down the road.Of course since 9/11 peoples views towards immigration have changed a little. So we need updated info.

Now to answer your question a little more.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof,
You are born here or naturalized= citizen
Jurisdiction thereof= US

This is also where people get the term "Anchor babies" people will come here just to have a baby specifically for citizenship.

reply to post by Nephalim


The 33 million I am speaking of is the new immigration target over the next 10 years that the administration is trying to ram through congress. I have no issue with people becoming legal citizens in a lawful fashion, quite the contrary. My mother was nationalized (Scotland) and my fathers parents nationalized from Hungary. I was born on US soil a full citizen.

If there is a need to increase the number of immigrants allowed into the US then it needs to be looked into. In light of current economics I don't think we do. I also feel that every illegal alien in the US should be deported immediately for breaking the law by entering the country in an unlawful manner.

As far as there children are concerned that is a problem. Anchor babies have been an issue for a long time but that does not excuse the initial criminality of their parents.

reply to post by Nephalim


Oh, I got you now, yes visas, workers cards ext. legal way, no wonder the lawyer I used to work for will tell illegal immigrant couples to have as many children as they could. he,he.

Still, you know that while many come the right legal way is many more that comes illegally and then use children as collaterals while reproducing knowing that they can not afford so many, I witness many instances of child neglect and despicable living conditions while visiting many of the migrant workers homes, I will call it homes because I don't want to sound bad, while I was working for the city.

This is one of the problems going on in the south, too many illegal immigrant needy people with too many America born children.

But the way the immigration bill is right now shows too many loopholes that will allowed for many to ride the welfare system once amnesty is passed and for my experiences around my neck of the woods is going to be many.

Well you don't need amnesty to be citizen for what I see.

reply to post by Nephalim


I forgot to tell you, soy Puertorriquena and tu sabes that we are American citizens by law as a territory of the US.

reply to post by Nephalim


It costs the taxpayers 30K per student to have them un the LAUSD.
If your hypothetical illegal had 2 children do you actually think he is paying 60K in taxes?

VforVendettea
reply to post by Nephalim

 

It costs the taxpayers 30K per student to have them un the LAUSD.
If your hypothetical illegal had 2 children do you actually think he is paying 60K in taxes?

hmm, no what I'm thinking they're thinking is that they cant get an accurate accounting for the illegals earnings because they work under the table and they are not paying into social programs because of it. I am not so sure it would be 60k in taxes per person though, many people dont make that much in year so youd be well over 100% of earned income at that rate.. and you'd have to know if they even worked or not and whether work would be available for them in the first place.

Bassago
reply to post by Nephalim

 

The 33 million I am speaking of is the new immigration target over the next 10 years that the administration is trying to ram through congress. I have no issue with people becoming legal citizens in a lawful fashion, quite the contrary. My mother was nationalized (Scotland) and my fathers parents nationalized from Hungary. I was born on US soil a full citizen.

Yea, you would need ... Canada. rofl
The only other thing I can think of is they thought on a headcount of "latinos" 33 million (thats counting the 11) if we all had at least one child in ten years youd get that 33 back. Even then this does not necessarily contribute to long term population growth because we know to maintain you need yourself, your spouse, plus 2 children to hold steady and a third to actually add to pop growth.

Not wasting a moment looks like Obama's old friend George Soros is jumping right in to help with the push.

The George Soros-funded National Immigration Forum (NIF) is organizing a “fly-in” of what it calls conservatives from across the country aimed at lobbying House Republicans for an amnesty bill.

“The fly-in is being organized not by conservative groups, but organizations that have focused on legalizing millions of people who are in the U.S. illegally and changing the legal immigration system to bring in more foreign workers”

Soros-Funded Group Plans 'Fly-In' to Push House Republicans on Amnesty

reply to post by Bassago


To what end? Cheap labor? Why does the nation need more foreign workers when 40 sum odd million people need work? and who knows how many millions have complained about wages... 1 in 5 americans live in poverty ect

Does it make sense to bring in more? I'm not so sure.

Nephalim
reply to post by Ameilia

 

The thing is that illegals have been here working and paying into the system Amelia. And the nation has several laws, not just the one that says this is my land, this is your land, here's the line. But there are also security concerns with immigration and its not centered on one ethnic or racial group. Radicalization comes to mind. and then of course, New jersey for instance has issues with gangs. So does California and probably every border state which are not necessarily problems with "Mexican" origin. Then there's issues with drugs, prisons, education and cultural issues might need some bend. If this is the route they're going with immigration, I would say... If you don't know spanish. Learn.

I am not totally sure but I think Texas has at least 4 million now who need to go through the system. I just don't know that amnesty is the best approach. Those numbers seem a little off to me, mostly the 30+ million bit. Are they counting the people that might have come from the M.E?

edit on 17-10-2013 by Nephalim because: (no reason given)

paying into the system?

um, no.....they work under the table, and then ship the lion's share back to mexico....i'd say like 8 times out of 10, they pay nothing into the system...they're here just long enough to earn enough money to go home, and retire...

you mentioned gangs in Jersey...the Latin Kings come to mind....they come mostly from mexico...

the funny bit is that when they arrest one of these pieces of s**t for killing someone, or whatever...instead of shipping them back to their country of origin, they stick them in a prison, and then our tax dollars continue to support people who don't belong here in the first place...it's complete insanity

i mean, honestly.....and i'll probably catch flak for this... if you're here illegally, and you commit a serious enough crime, prompt execution should be the punishment.....for the record, i think the same should be true for citizens as well....i'm so tired of seeing prisons full of the worst kinds of scumbags the world has to offer, and they just sit there, living better than some free citizens do...and we all pay for that...

in any event, i don't think anyone's gonna disagree with the idea that all the illegals should be rounded up, and deported, Quick-Fast™

Ameilia
reply to post by Nephalim

 

Some of them may have been paying into the system. But, (and remember I said I live in a border state) the majority of the ones I have been exposed to do NOT pay anything into the system.

There are designated areas which they show up to on a daily basis. Everyone knows this. Anyone who wants to hire them shows up and handshake deals are worked out. A person announces what they want, say a fence built, or some trees trimmed, or some concrete poured, walls put up. Mexicans then volunteer. Usually a few who don't speak English attach themselves to someone who does. The English speaker facilitates communication. They work a day, a few days, and get paid cash. I know (and have seen) at least three of these places where you can pick up some day laborers right now, and I'm sure there are several I don't of.

This is common knowledge for people in my state, probably also in other border states.

it ain't just border states...go to pretty much any of the major cities in Jersey, and you'll see it too...most of the smaller, crappier towns are like that too....i used to have a job that required me to go all over the state...everywhere i went, you'd see them congregated in front of every friggin convenience store....

there are a bloody TON of illegals from mexico in Jersey.....i mean, the system they have for operations is absolutely insane....fake ID, fake pennsylvania tags for their cars...they rent houses from the hasidic jews, who use them as placeholders in dirty land deals...it's a really f**ked up state.....