IMMEDIATE BREAKING NEWS ! : White House Rejects 'Partisan' GOP Debt Plan

WakingDream
I think it's time for Americans to exercise their right to abolish and rebuild an unfit government. Taking the lessons we have learned and using them to not repeat the mistakes of the past. The two party system has failed, the system of checks and balances has failed. It's pathetic, and personally I'm hoping that my nation #s up so badly that we are launched into a state of anarchy so massive that there IS NO CHOICE LEFT but to build anew. I'm a patriot, and the disgusting level of hypocrisy, idiocy and the suicidal tendencies of our nations government is naught but pathetic. Burn it all down and out of the ashes rise again.

The idea of this terrifies me. We don't have any modern day Jeffersons, Franklins, Madison's, or Adams'. I honestly don't believe we have the talent in government these days to write a document on par with the constitution. I'm not one of those who puts the constitution up as some near divine document but I do see it as a very great work of art that we couldn't reproduce today because we lack the wisdom and experience brought about by being subjected to tyranny and fighting against it.

Do you really want the same crowd of people that believes everything the NSA is doing is ok to be writing a document on human rights?

xDeadcowx
Reading this thread is like talking to fans of WWE. Its all fake as fake can be, yet people love to pick a side and root for who they think will "win"

When will you realize its all fake? When will you realize they are all just actors, acting out a pre-planned script? All of the hits, slams, chairs being broken over each other's back, its all for show. Nothing more than an elaborate display to get the "fans" excited and cheering.

DC

THANK YOU

Honestly, I was just thinking the same thing. I can't believe I even made it through this thread and all the way to your post.

Are people seriously THIS clueless? Still?

It was the Democrats!
No, the Republicans!

Wait, maybe they're working together?!

We're marching towards whatever New World Order our banking masters have planned for us, and all of the good little sheep are bickering amongst themselves--completely oblivious, and forever lost to the chicanery of theater that is Capital Hill.

Congratulations to all of you who read this and blame the Republicans for the shutdown.
Congratulations to all of you who read this and blame the Democrats for the shutdown.
You've been bamboozled.

reply to post by WakingDream

personally I'm hoping that my nation #s up so badly that we are launched into a state of anarchy so massive that there IS NO CHOICE LEFT but to build anew.

I am right there with you.

This whole system needs burnt to the ground.

And the Democrats and Republicans can be used as kindling.

reply to post by Aazadan


Financial responsibility means not spending more than you can bring in. It IS the same thing. If we think it is not then we are giving them a free ride and I say no more.

How can you trust a country that prints money to get out of problems they create?

WakingDream
I think it's time for Americans to exercise their right to abolish and rebuild an unfit government. Taking the lessons we have learned and using them to not repeat the mistakes of the past. The two party system has failed, the system of checks and balances has failed. It's pathetic, and personally I'm hoping that my nation #s up so badly that we are launched into a state of anarchy so massive that there IS NO CHOICE LEFT but to build anew. I'm a patriot, and the disgusting level of hypocrisy, idiocy and the suicidal tendencies of our nations government is naught but pathetic. Burn it all down and out of the ashes rise again.

Aazadan
The idea of this terrifies me. We don't have any modern day Jeffersons, Franklins, Madison's, or Adams'. I honestly don't believe we have the talent in government these days to write a document on par with the constitution. I'm not one of those who puts the constitution up as some near divine document but I do see it as a very great work of art that we couldn't reproduce today because we lack the wisdom and experience brought about by being subjected to tyranny and fighting against it.

Really? There are folks right here on ATS that I believe could do that ... and a damned sight better I might add. The Constitution isn't something that happened over night and there were a LOT of uncredited contributors. Remember how it is that history is written.

AazadanDo you really want the same crowd of people that believes everything the NSA is doing is ok to be writing a document on human rights?

TPTB may not be around to answer an invitation -very evil grin-

reply to post by Aazadan


No, tragically I don't see a single mind on par with the founding fathers in our current government. I'm calling for a total abortion of our failed system. I do believe that there are people out there capable of doing better, with no motivation other than the best interests of the people at heart. I look at the failed Occupy movement ( which I myself was a part of briefly, but dropped off when I saw it would get very little accomplished) if there had been more cohesion, and an actual leadership infrastructure in place they may have gotten much more accomplished.

Snarl
Really? There are folks right here on ATS that I believe could do that ... and a damned sight better I might add. The Constitution isn't something that happened over night and there were a LOT of uncredited contributors. Remember how it is that history is written.

Maybe so. Personally, I think it's a job I would be good at as I'm not pushed to an extreme with either ideology and perfectly willing to compromise, plus I understand how things at that level actually work. I'm not in power though, and I don't have the ear of anyone influential who is in power. I believe people are out there that could do it, I just don't think any of them are in Washington.

matafuchs
reply to post by Aazadan

 

Financial responsibility means not spending more than you can bring in. It IS the same thing. If we think it is not then we are giving them a free ride and I say no more.

How can you trust a country that prints money to get out of problems they create?

It's not about giving them a free ride, I find that entire concept ludicrous. Who cares if someone gets blamed or if the right people get blamed? What's done is done, blame is pointless. Focus on solutions. The reason that financial responsibility doesn't work the same at the national level is because at a national level money doesn't mean the same thing. Let me give you a brief history lesson. The Revolutionary War was very expensive, and the nation had just started out. At the time it didn't collect taxes and it was broke. What we did was create money (Continental Currency) out of nothing. It was backed by nothing and free to produce. However because it was said it was a valid medium of exchange and that taxes would be collected in it, it had value. To the everyday person it was worth something. On a national level however it was worthless. The same thing happened during the Civil War when Lincoln had congress create the greenback. It was a valid source of currency and widely accepted on a national level however it was again worthless to other nations. What I'm getting at here is the perception of money in government and the perception of money to the individual are vastly different.

How that applies to today, you and I hold value in the money we have. To us it's a hallmark of fiscal responsibility to pay down debt and not live beyond our means. Above us is the banks who use the principal of fractional reserve banking to create a money multiplier. They sell you a $10,000 credit limit while only spending $300 of their own money on that limit. Above the bank is the federal government which has the power of the printing press. We've contracted that power out to the Federal Reserve but it's the same thing. They create and sell bonds to investors, which then pay interest. These bonds are used to pay for government expenses, you can even see them at work at local levels where a bond is produced to fund a school. These investments represent faith in the system. If people have faith in the dollar it is in our interest to create more bonds and sell them. Some of these bonds get bought by foreign countries. When they do this, they own a piece of our debt. It goes a step further however. There's not enough gold and silver in the world to back the amount of currency that currently exists, so what nations have done is they take the foreign owned debt they have and use it to back their currency. Everyone does this, even the US (we're actually the largest or second largest holder of debt in the world). To relate this to an individual level:
Andy loans Barry $5. Andy now has a $5 IOU.
Barry loans Cindy that $5. Barry now has a $5 IOU.
Cindy loans Dave that $5, Cindy now has a $5 IOU.
Dave loans Andy $5. Dave now has a $5 IOU.

At this point Andy has $5 and each of them have $5 in debt to each other. They could all agree to cancel the debt in which case Andy has $5 but everyone else is left with nothing. Lets say Dave wants out at this point so the next time Andy does some work for him Dave instead of paying tears up the $5 IOU. This is equivalent to paying down the debt. Cindy's IOU is now worthless because Dave paid off his $5 and left the system. Now Cindy is left with no assets. At this point Barry gets worried and goes to Cindy to get his money back, Cindy has no money though all she can give Barry is a worthless IOU. This means Barry's IOU is now backed by nothing. This trickles upwards and Andy's IOU is also worthless. What was $25 in assets resulted in a severe monetary contraction due to paying down the debt and left everyone broke.

Needless to say, everyone is pretty upset with each other after this and being gun owners each decides to go after the other for their money. When this happens in international terms it's called war, and economics are the foundation of every war. This is what would happen if we paid down the debt.

So the alternative is to just not increase it. Modern economics are based on growth however. If we cease to grow our debt investors get worried and start thinking we've borrowed too much. When that happens a massive sell off of our debt is triggered as everyone tries to readjust their portfolios and dump the US debt that is now plummeting in value at free fall speed. When the value of debt plummets, the value of our currency plummets (remember dollars are claims to a debt). Suddenly our money is worth nothing internationally and the price of all imports, most notably oil increases exponentially. When this happens it suddenly costs $5000 for a barrel of oil. This ripples throughout the economy increasing distribution and travel costs. Which increases the cost of every other good in response as people are trying to pay for shipping. Suddenly we have hyper inflation.

The only responsible thing to do is continue to grow the debt.

WakingDream:

...tragically I don't see a single mind on par with the founding fathers in our current government.

Quite right. It's not that they are not intelligent enough to write such a document, but because they do not have the 'good intentions' towards the country and the people to do so, they simply do not have the 'empathy' for the good of others. Politically, even within their own parties, they are not facing the same direction, or singing from the same song sheet.

The drafting of the Constitution went through a very similar process as that for the drafting of this failed funding bill now, but back in the late 1700s the drafters were all looking to create a new independent country, everyone was singing from the same song sheet. You are now witnessing partisan politics in action. Politicians acting intransigently for benefits to their own politics, not for the people, not for the country, but for their own political mindset, and out of hate for Obama and his policies.

This isn't theatre as some posters ludicrously claim, it's a deadly situation that could cause a convulsion in the global markets, which would undermine anything and everything American politicians try to do. The American dollar could go into free fall and be dumped as the world's reserve currency, I'm quite surprised that it hasn't already happened, and not a little suspicious of it. I think there's some market manipulation going on?

The global markets are quite happy to see America and Americans go into further debt that can't be paid back. The dumping of the dollar can happen at any time, but I would think investors are hoping that this current American crisis is staved off at the last minute so that the dollar doesn't crash. All it will take for a dumping convulsion through the markets to occur is for a big investor to sell their dollar stock in fear of losing it all with no recompense. America really is teetering on that precipice.

I can only think that the reason the markets haven't acted violently yet against the American dollar is simply out of fear of losing stock?

Good discussion points. Do you mind? This may come off as cynical, but it is NOT intended to. Please regard my response as a show of respect to you. Your words are inspiring dialogue and I want to spar, not fight.

elysiumfire
The drafting of the Constitution went through a very similar process as that for the drafting of this failed funding bill now, but back in the late 1700s the drafters were all looking to create a new independent country, everyone was singing from the same song sheet.

That took more than a decade if my history lessons serve. Do you think we should allow the current lot of politicians time to re-write "republic" out of America? Or should we revolt?

elysiumfire
You are now witnessing partisan politics in action. Politicians acting intransigently for benefits to their own politics, not for the people, not for the country, but for their own political mindset, and out of hate for Obama and his policies.

Personally, I don't hate Obamarama. I really don't feel anything for the man at all. I respect the fact that his, "If I had a son ..." remark wasn't repeated, and that he obviously learns from his mistakes ... even the egregious ones. Now, his policies ... they're socialist, if not communist. Russia tried that route. If they couldn't succeed, how could anyone? Credit where credit is due, the U.S.S.R. 'was' a superpower and their attempt at communism failed. One guy working his ass off, while another guy eats his profits, leaves one of 'em tired and bitter. He's probably not going to work so hard tomorrow and two people are going to be hungry. It's really simple ... much like the mind of Obamarama.

elysiumfire
This isn't theatre as some posters ludicrously claim, it's a deadly situation that could cause a convulsion in the global markets, which would undermine anything and everything American politicians try to do.

I think the Tree of Liberty has grown quite thirsty over the past 200 years or so. Is my assessment of the situation more deadly than yours? Did you feel the hum? That was Americans being fed-up. Do you hear the growl? That's a warning that people are about to snap. I don't want to hear the roar, or see what comes after. But, you see, only the elected Tea Partiers are in touch enough to be honestly worried ... and that's only because they too have not become corrupted by partisan politics. Give 'em time, my friend.

elysiumfire
The American dollar could go into free fall and be dumped as the world's reserve currency, I'm quite surprised that it hasn't already happened, and not a little suspicious of it. I think there's some market manipulation going on?

I think that's the way it's supposed to work. Another ATS contributor made a fine point about the American dollar and how it is perceived. As an extension of the market it is a tool. As a bill in your pocket it is a limited purchasing power.

elysiumfire
The global markets are quite happy to see America and Americans go into further debt that can't be paid back. The dumping of the dollar can happen at any time, but I would think investors are hoping that this current American crisis is staved off at the last minute so that the dollar doesn't crash. All it will take for a dumping convulsion through the markets to occur is for a big investor to sell their dollar stock in fear of losing it all with no recompense. America really is teetering on that precipice.

Reads like doom porn. Makes a point ... but reads like doom porn. The dollar in relation to your quoted statement is a tool. Sooner or later everyone finds a replacement tool for something in the shop. Why would it be different for us? It won't be the end of the world for America. It'll be time to get innovative, build some manufacturing equipment, put people to work, or let 'em starve. It's probably becoming apparent that I've worked all my life.

elysiumfire
I can only think that the reason the markets haven't acted violently yet against the American dollar is simply out of fear of losing stock?

I think the stock market bubble hasn't burst because the Fed ensured QE kept it artificially inflated. Obamarama feared the Fed. JFK should have too.

teslahowitzer
reply to post by Bixxi3

 

The glorious great one will not budge one micron and his worthless, has not formed a budget since 2006 senate has got his back. unfrigginbeliveable.... Who cannot see this for what it REALLY is??? This joke of a leader and his professional rip-off artist want to spend spend spend, and blame the other side when it crashes, and it will. ALL the rebublicans want to do is be more responsible, and not burden future generations with this no way to fund ACA. Any child can see this is the game preceding the mid terms and our back stabbing media will not call them on it.....Traitors, people, wake up to this game, it is you and your childrens future. If ACA is so great why are all of the politicians and big business execs want no part of it?? WHY?

Teslahowitzer

I'm guessing you must be a Goldfish with a 3 second memory........?

Do you not remember that Bush left America in a war and with a HUGE debt already..??

I'm a Brit who cannot believe the Manipulation by the 'Good Old Party'......oopps Gallant (?) to try and sway and destroy democracy....... the very thing you Americans claim as your own......

Seriously, Teslaboy and all your GOP mates....take your heads out of your arses and turn-off Fox News drivel because the rest of the world is laughing at you.......seriously.....!!

Obama was voted in .democratically by the American people and part of his election mandate was to reform healthcare......... Republicans trying to de-rail America and blame the Democrats for it is actually Treason......... your GOP party and looney Tea-party nut jobs are destroying America........America is DYING and the only ones who can save it are people like you who need to REFORM and kick the Asses of your current Republican politicans.......

WAKE UP before you are too late....

Regards

PDUK

Aazadan

Snarl
Really? There are folks right here on ATS that I believe could do that ... and a damned sight better I might add. The Constitution isn't something that happened over night and there were a LOT of uncredited contributors. Remember how it is that history is written.

Maybe so. Personally, I think it's a job I would be good at as I'm not pushed to an extreme with either ideology and perfectly willing to compromise, plus I understand how things at that level actually work. I'm not in power though, and I don't have the ear of anyone influential who is in power. I believe people are out there that could do it, I just don't think any of them are in Washington.

matafuchs
reply to post by Aazadan

 

Financial responsibility means not spending more than you can bring in. It IS the same thing. If we think it is not then we are giving them a free ride and I say no more.

How can you trust a country that prints money to get out of problems they create?

It's not about giving them a free ride, I find that entire concept ludicrous. Who cares if someone gets blamed or if the right people get blamed? What's done is done, blame is pointless. Focus on solutions. The reason that financial responsibility doesn't work the same at the national level is because at a national level money doesn't mean the same thing. Let me give you a brief history lesson. The Revolutionary War was very expensive, and the nation had just started out. At the time it didn't collect taxes and it was broke. What we did was create money (Continental Currency) out of nothing. It was backed by nothing and free to produce. However because it was said it was a valid medium of exchange and that taxes would be collected in it, it had value. To the everyday person it was worth something. On a national level however it was worthless. The same thing happened during the Civil War when Lincoln had congress create the greenback. It was a valid source of currency and widely accepted on a national level however it was again worthless to other nations. What I'm getting at here is the perception of money in government and the perception of money to the individual are vastly different.

How that applies to today, you and I hold value in the money we have. To us it's a hallmark of fiscal responsibility to pay down debt and not live beyond our means. Above us is the banks who use the principal of fractional reserve banking to create a money multiplier. They sell you a $10,000 credit limit while only spending $300 of their own money on that limit. Above the bank is the federal government which has the power of the printing press. We've contracted that power out to the Federal Reserve but it's the same thing. They create and sell bonds to investors, which then pay interest. These bonds are used to pay for government expenses, you can even see them at work at local levels where a bond is produced to fund a school. These investments represent faith in the system. If people have faith in the dollar it is in our interest to create more bonds and sell them. Some of these bonds get bought by foreign countries. When they do this, they own a piece of our debt. It goes a step further however. There's not enough gold and silver in the world to back the amount of currency that currently exists, so what nations have done is they take the foreign owned debt they have and use it to back their currency. Everyone does this, even the US (we're actually the largest or second largest holder of debt in the world). To relate this to an individual level:
Andy loans Barry $5. Andy now has a $5 IOU.
Barry loans Cindy that $5. Barry now has a $5 IOU.
Cindy loans Dave that $5, Cindy now has a $5 IOU.
Dave loans Andy $5. Dave now has a $5 IOU.

At this point Andy has $5 and each of them have $5 in debt to each other. They could all agree to cancel the debt in which case Andy has $5 but everyone else is left with nothing. Lets say Dave wants out at this point so the next time Andy does some work for him Dave instead of paying tears up the $5 IOU. This is equivalent to paying down the debt. Cindy's IOU is now worthless because Dave paid off his $5 and left the system. Now Cindy is left with no assets. At this point Barry gets worried and goes to Cindy to get his money back, Cindy has no money though all she can give Barry is a worthless IOU. This means Barry's IOU is now backed by nothing. This trickles upwards and Andy's IOU is also worthless. What was $25 in assets resulted in a severe monetary contraction due to paying down the debt and left everyone broke.

Needless to say, everyone is pretty upset with each other after this and being gun owners each decides to go after the other for their money. When this happens in international terms it's called war, and economics are the foundation of every war. This is what would happen if we paid down the debt.

So the alternative is to just not increase it. Modern economics are based on growth however. If we cease to grow our debt investors get worried and start thinking we've borrowed too much. When that happens a massive sell off of our debt is triggered as everyone tries to readjust their portfolios and dump the US debt that is now plummeting in value at free fall speed. When the value of debt plummets, the value of our currency plummets (remember dollars are claims to a debt). Suddenly our money is worth nothing internationally and the price of all imports, most notably oil increases exponentially. When this happens it suddenly costs $5000 for a barrel of oil. This ripples throughout the economy increasing distribution and travel costs. Which increases the cost of every other good in response as people are trying to pay for shipping. Suddenly we have hyper inflation.

The only responsible thing to do is continue to grow the debt.

Love this post.......... it illustrates exactly the stupidy of it all....

Regards

PDUK

Snarl:

Do you think we should allow the current lot of politicians time to re-write "republic" out of America? Or should we revolt?

Revolt? What against? Perhaps, you don't like the politics on show, or the way politics is being exercised? In that case go to the voting booths and choose someone else in whom you believe you can entrust your confidence. If no such candidate exists, put your own candidacy forward and get elected, and hope to do good work from within.

The word 'republic' will never be erased from the Constitution, because the 'real' constitution is the one people carry in their hearts and minds. The word 'republic' is not a politic, it is a way of life, but it looks to have been subjugated to a politic. When Americans vote, indeed, whenever anyone votes in any election in any country, they should be voting for their way of life, not for their politic, because politics has never supported how people live, it has only ever demanded subjugation and compliance to law. Never ever empower another person's vision for your way of life above that of your own.

In saying this, I don't mean be insular and indifferent to other people's way of life, but support each other in your community, regardless of the differences in opinion...you need each other, otherwise, your community cannot survive. Which brings me to...

...his policies...they're socialist, if not communist.

It is quite irrelevant what 'his' policies are, the only relevance to you are your policies. Whatever policies your neighbour supports, the key issue is that you can both get along and put aside partisanship for the good of the community in which you live. This is not what current American politics is about. It is divisive and creating fault lines of fracturing opinion and trenchant intransigence.

There isn't a society on the planet that does not have a beating heart of socialism at its core, and that includes America. It seems that many Americans hate the very thing that makes their country beat as a nation. Once again, socialism isn't a politic, it is a way of communal living. I'm a liberal socialist (not a political one) because I care for others. I care that they have the same opportunities in life as I do, because if they do, the whole community does well, remains healthy and strong, and even if everyone has different opinions about things, they can still embrace each other for the good of the community. A socialist will censor his/her own personal desires and needs for the strengthening of the community. No one should be servile to any one else, but at the same time, no one should impose their needs and wants on others. A socialist should do all they can to see to fulfil their own needs without taking from the community, and from that position, contribute to the community.

Simple fact is...if you care for others, if you will not sit idle as they go hungry, or if you will not deny them aid when they need it, you are a socialist. A capitalist will sit idle, and will deny aid, because they are all self, self, self, and are the ones whom truly abuse the community, because they take from it and giving nothing back. Do you not think America is like this now? Without a strong and healthy community around you, your own personal life becomes a struggle, and a fight for survival.

Socialism was made a thing to hate because it would take from the selfish and censor their selfishness. It would stop them from hoarding for themselves, like capitalists do, and ensure the community received its contribution from them. The rich and wealthy pay thousands to ensure they don't pay their taxes, but continue to take money from the community. Have you ever wondered why you have regions of poverty in America? It's because some want it all for themselves, and to hell with community, the city, the county, and the nation. Socialism is the glue that bonds community, you un-stick it at your peril.

Every hour they don't raise the debt ceiling the US becomes more impoverished and further in debt.

They have 15 hours or so I believe to make haste action.

deviant300
Every hour they don't raise the debt ceiling the US becomes more impoverished and further in debt.

They have 15 hours or so I believe to make haste action.

Actually even if they do raise it the US becomes more impoverished it just means its going to take you all longer to notice.

A deal could very well be reached, they done it will 11 hours to go back in 2011 when this last happened

So I would guess that we will probably see a deal in a few hours, which may very well get passed

this will all blow over until this time next year

ya don't suppose this could be about the 100 year unfed b.s. bank being up for renewal - or maybe just wanna come in w/ the IMF and 1 world banking to the rescue.

reply to post by matafuchs


That's pretty much what I said; however, I would be very, very careful as to where I would be making those cuts and also look at questionable and enabling legislature and a thorough examination of actuaries. For instance, the DoD, due to changes initiated by actuaries, outlays to the contribution of retirement benefits jumped from 73.9 billion in 2007 to 136.2 billion in 2008 with an additional $26 billion increase in long term debt primarily due to this same thing--actuarial liabilities. Combined that's $88.3 billion in expense and debt due to actuaries in a time period where we know that there was fraudulent behavior occurring within the financial sector. That's just one year, one agency. Imagine what it was like for the entirety of the federal government and you can start seeing why the deficit may have doubled between 2007 and 2008.

The national debt, overall, increased by nearly $1 trillion, from 2007 to 2008. One of the reasons for this would be that the US Treasury is the one holding the majority of the obligations for pensions and retirement benefits nationwide. In the DoD example, out of the $2 trillion in long-term debt, the US Treasure was obligated to fund $1.3 trillion of that as per 2009. Any increase to these actuarial based obligations would not only result in an increase in expenditures for the respective agencies but would also incur an increase in the liabilities for the US Treasury, ultimately contributing to the National Debt. Interestingly enough, in that same time period, a number of companies also faced crippling actuaries including American Airlines, Kodak and eventually, Hostess. This is also cited as part of the reason for Detroit's bankruptcy. It's extraordinary and these total obligations need to be absolutely reassessed. The USPS was a further target in aggressive retirement legislation through the PAEA of 2006, which not only took the modestly profitable USPS and turned it into a dog due to requiring them to fund employees' benefits who are not even born yet.

When we're looking at expenditures, the DoD is the largest. In 2009, the total budgetary resources for the DoD was $1.2 trillion. Despite that, the cost of operations exceeded its resources by $651.6 billion. That is nearly $1.9 trillion in expenses for the DoD alone in 2009.

2009 DoD Agency-wide Financial Report

What's more disturbing are the FY2011 and FY2012 DoD Financial Report. There's a reason why I'm not citing that one as being the most recent. For auditors for financial statements, the accountant is basically beholden to whatever opinion they give of that report. The ideal opinion for any financial report would be an "unqualified opinion". Acceptable, depending on the qualifications about the financial statements is a "qualified opinion" which basically means that there were some issues but not enough for the auditor to give the worst of the worst, which is a "no opinion". In 2011 and 2012, this is what the primary auditor of those financial statements had to say:

We are unable to express an opinion on the Department of Defense FY 2012 and FY 2011 Basic Financial Statements because of limitations on the scope of our work. Thus, the financial statements may be unreliable. In addition to our disclaimer of opinion on the financial statements, we are including the required Report on Internal Control and Compliance with Laws and Regulations....The Under Secretary of Defense/Chief Financial Officer, DoD, represented to us that the Department of Defense FY 2012 and FY 2011 Annual Financial Statements would not substantially conform to the accounting principles generally accepted in the United States of America (US GAAP) and that DoD financial management and feeder systems were unable to adequately support material amounts on the financial statements as of September 30, 2012. DoD Agency Financial Report FY 2012

Now, translating these statements to laymen's speak, it would read as "OMG RUN!!!". Substantial and material flaws--very bad. Limitations in scope--inexcusable. They also go onto to reference severe internal weaknesses of controls, which is also extremely bad. If this was a corporation, the investors would be dumping the stock so fast that it'd make the CFO's head spin. It's extraordinarily bad for a corporation and absolutely disgusting for a governmental agency. My grandfather was a comptroller for the DoD and he's probably rolling in his grave.

But hey, everybody keep focusing on cutting those social benefits because that's where the "real" problem lies. However, in my accounting opinion, you're all looking at the wrong things. When you have the largest entity within the Federal government not holding to US GAAP and with severe internal control issues, that's where you should be looking because it's almost a shoe-in that there is something inherently wrong going on there.

reply to post by deviant300

Every hour they don't raise the debt ceiling the US becomes more impoverished and further in debt.

They have 15 hours or so I believe to make haste action.

Kindly, explain how RAISING the dept ceiling will keep the US from becoming "more impoverished and further in debt".

See ya,
Milt

elysiumfire
Simple fact is...if you care for others, if you will not sit idle as they go hungry, or if you will not deny them aid when they need it, you are a socialist. A capitalist will sit idle, and will deny aid, because they are all self, self, self, and are the ones whom truly abuse the community, because they take from it and giving nothing back.

By your definition, I don't fall into the category of a capitalist. By my own, I guess I would.

elysiumfire
Do you not think America is like this now? Without a strong and healthy community around you, your own personal life becomes a struggle, and a fight for survival.

My own personal life has been a struggle, as has been the case for the rest of my family and everyone I have known and considered a friend.

elysiumfire
The rich and wealthy pay thousands to ensure they don't pay their taxes, but continue to take money from the community. Have you ever wondered why you have regions of poverty in America? It's because some want it all for themselves, and to hell with community, the city, the county, and the nation.

An old boss of mine was as you describe. Our period of journey together was short lived because he didn't pay his taxes. He's well-off financially and respected where he lives even now. Having seen this firsthand, I concede the point, but not all of us are like him.

I have existed (with family mind you) below the poverty level, but always managed. I do quite well now because I struggled and sometimes fought for my place. My children may not have learned the difference between right and wrong had I not kept my hands in my pockets when I could have reached out and taken what was not earned.

Your response to my post is appreciated and you have my respect.

I don’t think the house is going to pass this bill. And who said ObaMao is even going to sign it. I thought he said no short term deals?

We all also know that the debt ceiling was reached back in May, right? This is all a bunch of bunk. Since May the government has used extraordinary measures as it was put to continue to make payments so I think they are really out of money. 412 billion paid out since the debt ceiling was reached in May. So why did they wait for now???

Remember when it came out we could not afford a war with Syria. We are broke...