Videos contradict Medal of Honor winner's account of attack

Videos contradict Medal of Honor winner's account of attack

In his memoir of the 2009 battle in Afghanistan that brought him the Medal of Honor, Marine Sgt. Dakota Meyer describes how he reflexively switched from his machine gun to his rifle and back to his machine gun as he mowed down a swarm of charging Taliban from the vehicle's turret. "My mind was completely blank. I fired so many thousands of rounds I didn't think what I was doing," Meyer, then a corporal, wrote in his 2012 book, "Into the Fire: A Firsthand Account of the Most Extraordinary Battle in the Afghan War." But videos shot by Army medevac helicopter crewmen show no Taliban in that vicinity or anywhere else on the floor of the Ganjgal Valley at the time and location of the "swarm." The videos also conflict with the version of the incident in Marine Corps and White House accounts of how Meyer, now 25, of Columbia, Ky., came to be awarded the nation's highest military decoration for gallantry. The videos add to the findings of an ongoing McClatchy investigation that determined that crucial parts of Meyer's memoir were untrue, unsubstantiated or exaggerated, as were the Marine Corps and White House accounts of how he helped extract casualties from the valley under fire. The White House and Marine Corps have defended the accuracy of their accounts of Meyer's actions. The Marine Corps declined to comment on the videos.

If the videos show he didn't do the things he said he did to win this then he should return it. It would be an insult to the people who truly earned this honor for him to keep it.

Except that his account had almost nothing to do with receiving the Medal (you don't "win" the Medal, you are Awarded the Medal). For you to even be considered for it, you have to be nominated by someone higher up, and then every account of what happened is investigated, everyone that was there is interviewed, every video of the battle is reviewed. It's a long process that can take years before you are awarded the Medal.

Zap is right on this one.

He made it seem more heroic for his book maybe to get some sales?

Not in anyway saying this man isn't a hero in anyway. Look up the process to get that medal. He didn't tell some people some drawn out story and they took his word for it and gave him the Medal of Honor.

I don't much care what videos in one area, at one time and covering one angle might show.... This sounds pretty straight forward to me. If nothing else, the bodies didn't just up and keel over from bullet wounds or other injury non-existent Taliban who weren't there, didn't do.

McClatchy is attacking this from another angle and on another guy who was part of the battle, apparently. This sounds like a pretty well known battle, in fact?

The review is the latest turn in the convoluted history of the Medal of Honor nomination of former Army Capt. William Swenson, who was recommended for the nation’s highest military decoration for valor for his actions on Sept. 8, 2009, in one of the most extraordinary battles of the Afghanistan and Iraq wars.

(emphasis by me)

That's not the most conclusive part...aside from what a Medivac would have been evacuating, if not injured to begin with... but..

Four U.S. servicemen, nine Afghan security forces and a translator died in the six-hour clash outside the village of Ganjgal. A fifth U.S. soldier, who was among some two dozen American and Afghan wounded, died two months later.

A slew of decorations were awarded to survivors of the battle, including a Medal of Honor for Marine Sgt. Dakota Meyer, and two Navy Crosses. Moreover, two Army officers were reprimanded for dereliction of duty for failing to provide air and artillery support for the Afghan troops and their American military advisers.

Source

That's fourteen men (counting the poor guy 2 months later) killed in what must have been quite a battle, indeed.

There can't be two of them? It does sound like very sloppy handing on this other solider the link talks about. Whole packets being lost and such. (Then again...what cargo flights into Afghanistan got shot down or crashed around the time that went MIA to Petraeus? it's as good a question as anything).

The original source's coverage of this second CMH nomination, in questioning Pentagon handling, would seem to confirm the nature and viciousness of the fighting though?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


There is also helmet cam of another soldier who was part of the same battle, who at least twice, laid out in the open with the orange marker panel on his chest for the Medevac to land. The first was for the Sgt who later died. The second was farther up in the valley, deeper in the ambush for a group of Afghani soldiers who were wounded.

Zaphod58
Except that his account had almost nothing to do with receiving the Medal (you don't "win" the Medal, you are Awarded the Medal). For you to even be considered for it, you have to be nominated by someone higher up, and then every account of what happened is investigated, everyone that was there is interviewed, every video of the battle is reviewed. It's a long process that can take years before you are awarded the Medal.

edit on 10/14/2013 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)

You may want to read the article again.

In addition to finding that key parts of Meyer's memoir, as well as the Marine Corps and White House accounts of his actions, were embellished, untrue or unsubstantiated, McClatchy's investigation raised questions about the military awards process, which some lawmakers, military officers and veterans groups say is subject to improper influence and manipulation. McClatchy's findings were based on dozens of military documents _ including sworn statements by American participants in the battle _ and on interviews last year with nine Afghan troops who survived the clash near the border with Pakistan. The purported "swarm" of Meyer's vehicle by charging insurgents is a major facet of the official narratives and his memoir.

ummmm...
in buster's and his threads defense:

didn't Pat_Tillman
get a Silver Star and then it turned out he was killed by friendly fire?
[some CT's claim it was not so friendly and for the purpose of silencing him, it should be noted the award was not rescinded, btw]

perhaps similar shenanigans are at play here
in addition, both zaphod and wrabbit are assuming a non existent infallibility on the part of the awarders, award committee [or whatever it's called ]

reply to post by buster2010


And whether they were swarmed or not when the Blackhawk landed, and whether he switched between a machine gun, and M-16 or not, he fulfilled the requirements for the award. But as for the video, I would fully expect a medevac to land back away from the fighting, and no explosions to be going on near the LZ, as even an Apache is vulnerable to fire, and shrapnel, a Blackhawk more so.

Unless there was a video of the entire battle, taken off his helmet cam that showed every minute of the battle, accounts are going to change over time, as people's memories change. He's interviewing people four years after the event, I would expect there to be some changing of details at this point because four years is a long time, and memories change.

One video, taken for five minutes or so as a Medevac lands, loads up with a wounded soldier, and takes off again, does not suddenly alter the entire battle, nor does it mean that he didn't deserve the Medal.

reply to post by Metaphysique


I'm not assuming an infallibility on anyone's part. But the Medal is not just given out. That's why the battle took place in 2009, and he just now received it. Because it takes a long time to review everything, and determine if he deserved it or not. A number of people have been nominated, and years later told no, they weren't getting it, because things weren't as they said.

reply to post by Zaphod58


you just contradicted yourself
1st you deny your belief in infallibility and then proclaim it like dogma

just saiyan...

not wanting to derail busters thread, or pick a fight, I'll conclude my participation herein by pointing out that believing that an award can't be given by mistake, or due to some sort of corruption [somebody like john mcain or princes harry and willy come to mind ] is extremely naive.

Could we be seeing the beginnings of a possible political career already in danger. Is Marine Sgt. Dakota Meyer being groomed for any offices?

While I'd like to have Zaph's faith in the vetting process, things haven't exactly been on the up and up in DC for quite awhile. The tales regarding Private First Class Jessica Lynch, and Corporal Pat Tillman still seem fresh, and notions of sanctioned embellishments seem possible.

reply to post by Metaphysique


I didn't say it couldn't be given by mistake. I said that I have faith in the process because of the detail of the investigation. There hasn't been a case of it being mistakenly awarded since it started in 1861, that I've heard of.

That doesn't mean it can't happen, but it does limit the chances of it happening.

reply to post by redmage


The investigation is conducted by the Army, not Washington.

The chicken# way medals are awarded in the US military is a world famous joke among most standing armies.
The Vietnam war was rife with phoney awards to ticket punching officers of a chicken# nature....This goes on to some degree elsewhere, but the US is the king of chicken#.

reply to post by Zaphod58


"The President of the United States in the name of The Congress takes pleasure in presenting the MEDAL OF HONOR to..."

Thus the DC reference. After all, they're the ones who get the green light to award it. Congress has rules for such with Public Law 88-77, July 25, 1963.

And no, the Army would have had nothing to do with Sgt. Meyer's investigation. Sgt. Dakota Meyer was a Marine and there are three versions of the Medal of Honor. Sgt. Meyer received the Navy, Marine, and Coast Guard version; so it would have been a Naval/DoD investigation

Interesting sidenote: Sgt. Meyer used his book to posit that Army Captain William D. Swenson be awarded the Medal of Honor. Captain Swenson is slated to receive the medal today (Oct 15, 2013).

stirling
but the US is the king of chicken#.

Yawn.

Second Lt. Murphy commanded Company B, which was attacked by six tanks and waves of infantry. 2d Lt. Murphy ordered his men to withdraw to a prepared position in a woods, while he remained forward at his command post and continued to give fire directions to the artillery by telephone. Behind him, to his right, one of our tank destroyers received a direct hit and began to burn. Its crew withdrew to the woods. 2d Lt. Murphy continued to direct artillery fire, which killed large numbers of the advancing enemy infantry. With the enemy tanks abreast of his position, 2d Lt. Murphy climbed on the burning tank destroyer, which was in danger of blowing up at any moment, and employed its .50 caliber machine gun against the enemy.

He was alone and exposed to German fire from three sides, but his deadly fire killed dozens of Germans and caused their infantry attack to waver. The enemy tanks, losing infantry support, began to fall back. For an hour the Germans tried every available weapon to eliminate 2d Lt. Murphy, but he continued to hold his position and wiped out a squad that was trying to creep up unnoticed on his right flank. Germans reached as close as 10 yards, only to be mowed down by his fire.

He received a leg wound, but ignored it and continued his single-handed fight until his ammunition was exhausted. He then made his way back to his company, refused medical attention, and organized the company in a counterattack, which forced the Germans to withdraw. His directing of artillery fire wiped out many of the enemy; he killed or wounded about 50. 2d Lt. Murphy's indomitable courage and his refusal to give an inch of ground saved his company from possible encirclement and destruction, and enabled it to hold the woods which had been the enemy's objective.[91

Audie Murphy

Somehow, I see someone like you running.........

reply to post by redmage


You're right, but the point still stands. I should have said the MILITARY does the investigation, not DC.

Let 'em keep the medals. Hell, they should give out MORE of the things as far as I'm concerned.

It reduces the horrors and sacrifices of war to that of a traffic violation when it is parsed like this.

Sad.