What is so scary about thinking, or discovering, your Religion is false?

reply to post by AfterInfinity

In my opinion, we don't know enough about ourselves to look for anything like God. When we know enough about ourselves that we can be honest and constructive about what we find, when we are prepared, willing, and fully capable of being as honest with ourselves as we can be, we'll be ready. But not yet.

There is a teaching in my religion... a very meaningful one. The teaching is you must know yourself to know God.

I never really understood that teaching until just now... in your words... weird huh?

reply to post by OpinionatedB

There is a teaching in my religion... a very meaningful one. The teaching is you must know yourself to know God.

I never really understood that teaching until just now... in your words... weird huh?

Not at all. Even the Greeks were well aware of it. There's an inscription at the Temple of Delphi, renowned for its history full of female prophets and their influences in world events. They even foretold the coming of Jesus. It was, in part, their role in his rise that brought about their destruction. Funny how that happens, eh? The inscription reads:

"Know thyself, and you will know the gods and the universe."

I found that quote, and its source, in a book after three days of going on and on about that concept. I'd never seen it before, and I was flabbergasted to come across it. Omen? Sign? Message? A bop on the head from some higher power? No idea. But it reassures me of something I've suspected - I'm no idiot.

I'm glad I brought you clarity. That's what I'm here for. I would like to further explain that a large part of my skepticism comes from the blatant reality that we are encouraged to lie to ourselves on a regular basis. We are encouraged to hide our true thoughts, feelings, and emotions, to distract and confuse ourselves, and to process the world in ways that prevent us from ever seeing further than our own televisions.

And that is why I don't believe people when they say they know God. They are not in a position to. They are in a mental prison.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

"Mommy, mommy, look at what I made!" *Repeat for the next half hour* Evidently, it was baseless.

LOL....Yes, it was BASELESS. I pay attention to everyone's posts.

You reminded me just now of my son, who as a kid practicing skating, or writing, or coloring, or practicing drums, or whatever....would always look over his shoulder to make sure I was "still watching." My husband does that, too, while he's target shooting knives....or doing whatever.

It's cool. I DO pay attention.

No worries.

reply to post by wildtimes


I try not to give off the impression that I'm showing off or in need of reassurance or anything of that nature. I have this base need to stand on my own two legs, regardless of who approves or disapproves. If I fall into the trap of peer approval, I will lose my individuality. Which means I love my independence. Which means I lose my freedom of spirit.

One more symptom of my eternal fight against subjugation in all of its forms. I don't want to be chained. I don't want to make my home in a cage. I want to fly.

AfterInfinity
Not to mention that there is no actual tried-and-proven basis for determining the nature or existence of a higher power. Bring to me an official, scientifically established set of parameters for identifying a real, concrete deity, and I will adjust my regard accordingly. But not a moment sooner.

Utinni,

(Off-topic post ahead...adjust mentality accordingly!)
Niel DeGrasse Tyson spoke about something very similar in a lecture.
Evolution can be proven in two words:

"Marsupial" and "Australia"

But with that taken, the species of chimpanzees and other related phylums pocess 24 dual chromosones (for a total of 48) while we humans have 23 (making 46).
Yet with only one set of chromosones to separate us, even the smartest of the simian species can only learn about 3000 gestures from international sign language.
Comparatively, a human child can accomplish the same feat with the same training but in our full potential, man split the atom...went to the moon...travelled to the deepest parts of the ocean or the most distant parts of the solar system, we will soon even mine asteroids....and we did ALL that with one extra set of chromosones.
Now, think about an alien with only ONE set of chromosones more than humans. They would look at the Hubble Telescope and think:

"Awweeee, isn't that cute...little Tommy made one of those for me last week."

For them Quantum Mechanics would not be a chore. It would almost be intuitive for them and even our greatest of accomplishments as a species would seem childish by comparison. THIS is the sort of mind that could figure out what mankind has been struggling with for the whole of his existance.
Now, before we all get excited, think about this:

"Why would aliens ever help us to understand the universe?"

Would humans ever try to help a chimpanzee to build a Saturn rocket?
I don't think so.
I'm pretty sure if we asked one of these advanced aliens "is there a god?" they just look at us like a human looks at a monkey playing with his own feces.
I myself am leaning towards "Panspermia" as the best explaination the basis for the origin of life on Earth.
As far as "creation" goes, they are ALL just theories but if I am just gonna throw a dart at the board in the dark like everyone else...then I choose that one and not:

"LET THERE BE LIGHT..."

(This has been an off-topic post...we now return you to the already derailed thread in progress)

-Amitaba-

(P.S.: Appologies wildtimes...won't happen again!)

reply to post by AfterInfinity

I do have interest in NDE's. However, I am also deeply interesting in numerology and astrology. By which I mean, my interests are not always correlated with, or reliable for, constructing a sound frame by which to weave an accurate schematic of the universe and its metaphysical operations.

There's NOTHING faulty about that.

You are journeying. And, for my part, I admire you for it. I just hope you let go of the idea of "Abrahamic God", because it upsets you, and disrupts your voyage.

I'm journeying also. Haven't made up my mind definitively. That's why I enjoy interacting with you, bub!!

wildtimes
I just hope you let go of the idea of "Abrahamic God", because it upsets you, and disrupts your voyage.

It would be nice if the entire world did that ...
It'll take time and education ....
Not of 'afterinfinity' .. but of the nations in general.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

I try not to give off the impression that I'm showing off or in need of reassurance or anything of that nature. I have this base need to stand on my own two legs, regardless of who approves or disapproves.

It's okay. See my edit above: yes, your thought was "baseless."

Please don't stop talking.

double post ... sorry

reply to post by wildtimes

There's NOTHING faulty about that.

You are journeying. And, for my part, I admire you for it. I just hope you let go of the idea of "Abrahamic God", because it upsets you, and disrupts your voyage.

I'm journeying also. Haven't made up my mind definitively. That's why I enjoy interacting with you, bub!!

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me

I cannot let it go, because even if I let it go, it will continue to corrupt the human spirit long after I have stopped caring. And at that point, I've joined their river party in a little rowboat of my own.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

I cannot let it go, because even if I let it go, it will continue to corrupt the human spirit long after I have stopped caring.

OKay. Now I get it.

You're doing the same thing I am, but in your own way.
It just seemed to me you were 'entrenched' in whether or not to "buy into" the Abrahamic myths. That you are working to dispell the abusive "tyrant God myth" I TOTALLY understand.

I was just concerned that you were still brooding over it, and hadn't moved past the notion yet. Hope that makes sense.

I have to log off now, folks. Brain-drained.

CARRY ON!!! I LOVE THIS THREAD!!!!

reply to post by Eryiedes


No worries. The thread is "aged" enough that we can go just about anywhere with it now.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


we are told that people know God, but within the limits of their capacity. Everyone has a different capacity, so each person is on his own "level".. sometimes you will meet someone on a higher level, and you can learn from them and this can help raise you to a higher level of awareness... but you can never disparage those on lower or different levels. This life is about journey, its a journey to knowing HIM.. they are simply in a different place in that journey than others...

reply to post by OpinionatedB

we are told that people know God, but within the limits of their capacity. Everyone has a different capacity, so each person is on his own "level".. sometimes you will meet someone on a higher level, and you can learn from them and this can help raise you to a higher level of awareness... but you can never disparage those on lower or different levels. This life is about journey, its a journey to knowing HIM.. they are simply in a different place in that journey than others...

Lemme reiterate:

In my opinion, we don't know enough about ourselves to look for anything like God. When we know enough about ourselves that we can be honest and constructive about what we find, when we are prepared, willing, and fully capable of being as honest with ourselves as we can be, we'll be ready. But not yet.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


dont you spend every day with periods of self reflection, self examination? I do... we are human, knowing ourselves is part of the journey.

Its still all capacity...

reply to post by OpinionatedB

dont you spend every day with periods of self reflection, self examination? I do... we are human, knowing ourselves is part of the journey.

Its still all capacity...

I try to. But if we're going to be honest here, we must acknowledge how much time we spend trying to hide or reinterpret things in order to avoid painful truths and realities.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


you shouldn't stop the journey because the imperfect cannot comprehend fully that which is perfect... they journey is important even so...

reply to post by OpinionatedB

you shouldn't stop the journey because the imperfect cannot comprehend fully that which is perfect... they journey is important even so...

How can you say it's perfect then? Because that which is beyond your comprehension is also beyond your ability to determine as perfect, if in fact you were at all capable of determining actual perfection to begin with.

People who claim to know anything about perfection irritate me, like a frog claiming to know what it is to fly. All you know is that the idea is there. Beyond that, you are clueless. All you have is your whimsical imaginings of what it might be like, or what you hope it's like, or what you think it should be like. But you have no basis by which to formulate a solid conclusion or observation.

A child who has never been to Egypt, and has only seen drawings and heard stories intended to amaze and instill marvel and wonder, has no real idea what Egypt is. We've all been in that seat before. You should know exactly what I'm talking about, and recognize it in yourself.

FlyersFan
reply to post by wildtimes

 

OH MAN ... um .... maybe that's a topic for another thread?
Menopause ... no sex in the afterlife ... etc etc
(I'm chuckling ... )

AAARRRGH!

I've done been through the menopause thing once. Next time, armed with experience, I'll do things differently. When it hits, I'll strap OB onto a hand cart if necessary, and trundle her along at a high rate of speed to the nearest doctor, Objective: adequate doses of Premarin. I think, based on previous experience, that a 55 gallon drum, IV, would not be out of order.

No sex in heaven? Like a permanent menopause? NO WAY! In the words of Old Jack Hamilton "That just couldn't properly be called 'heaven' "!

If that's the case, I want to opt for door number three! Either that, or there had damned well better be fishing holes and beer joints!

FlyersFan

Anyways ... according to Jesus ... No marriage and no sex in heaven.
Sorry ... but that's straight from a fella who 'came down from heaven' (His quote),

Butbutbut... I've got a contract! God doesn't allow contracts to be honored?

I get the part where you say Jesus said "no marriage in heaven", although what he actually said was "they neither marry nor are given in marriage" - present and future tense, not past tense. I'm of the notion that my pre-existing contract will be upheld... but I entirely missed the part in the gospels where he said "no sex in heaven". Can you point that part out to me?

I really don't want to spend all eternity just fishing and drinking beer - or trying to learn to play golf on Old Jack Hamilton's Golf Course (tm).