It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Outgoing International Wires discontinued by Bank
page: 4share:
Chase is the largest bank in the US.
SadistNocturne
FyreByrd
I instinctually find this very disturbing.
Last week at one of my jobs we received a notice of term changes on our business checking accounts from Chase. Not unusual - I look through them and file them without much to do.
We will no longer (not that this particular company ever did) be able to make any, any outgoing international wire transfers of any amount whatsoever. Domestic wires in and out are still okay, incoming international wires are still okay.
Has this changed with other banks as well?
Does this bother anyone else?
I've had clients that had to make loan payments overseas by wire or even send money to family. This is a real roadblock as I see it.
It makes me very uncomfortable. Anyone know anything more about this - anyone in the Banking industry or at Chase. Is it only small business checking accounts or?
Are we talking a national bank here, or the small bank from "It's a wonderful life" ?
There's more to the story. But without it, there's little use in conjecture.
lindalinda
Most of those transfers are done by correspondent banking or clearinghouse transactions, no? In other words banks hold accounts at other banks and they just credit or debit each other's accounts, or a clearinghouse moves money around.
reply to post by SadistNocturne
Well, what I can honestly say is, when a payment from us is going to say Singapore, it is getting a special file that is only designated with a format that is understood in Singapore, and is electronically sent TO Singapore. It's basically a set of instructions that we give OUR bank saying "send this here, that there, and deposit into ABC accounts upon arrival". So, the file also contains the unique Bank Identifier of the bank the vendor is using that we are paying. And lastly, the bank account number is listed along with the bank identifier so that the vendor has their account credited.
So, whereas that is the extent of my involvement (for instance, when we decided to go live with electronic banking to SE Asian countries last year, I did all the programming to create individualized file formatting for each country, such as Singapore listed above, as well as Brunei, Malaysia, Thailand, VietNam, Australia, New Zealand, etc by our database and computer systems) is in these files, I do not believe the major bank we are a client of (and issue these instructions to) uses any sort of middleman or clearing house in between.
Now, when you mention clearing houses, are you regarding Automated Clearing Houses, commonly known as ACH transactions? These are actually "technically" the way checks are treated, and by and large we simply do wires.
If you've got any further questions, I could always ask someone in the Treasury Dept (think, banking , and get more concrete answers if I don't know it myself
- SN
reply to post by FyreByrd
This story has been picked up by Drudge Report. Unfortunately, the link there leads to infowars, however there is a scan of a letter from Chase (supposedly) which ALSO states withdraws are going to be limited. To 50k, which is a rather large limit to normal folks, BUT STILL.
Here is the link: infowars.
Thanks for starting this thread when you did and giving us all a heads up.
This story has been picked up by Drudge Report. Unfortunately, the link there leads to infowars, however there is a scan of a letter from Chase (supposedly) which ALSO states withdraws are going to be limited. To 50k, which is a rather large limit to normal folks, BUT STILL.
Here is the link: infowars.
Thanks for starting this thread when you did and giving us all a heads up.
MidnightTide
wasaka
Time to get into Bitcoin
and the net gets shut down, what do you do then?
I recommend buying food and water, stuff that you need to survive.
Yes, being prepped with food and water is priority one. No doubt.
I'm just speaking to those people who need to send money around
the world and don't trust the current system. Bitcoin is a very good
alternative to the legacy banking system.
Speculation is rife that the bank is preparing for some kind of economic crisis by “locking down” its customers’ money. Although most still expect a deal to be struck to prevent a US debt default, its impact would “shake financial markets to a degree not seen since the Great Depression,” according to experts.
Others fear the move to restrict international wire transfers is part of a plan to protect against a near-future collapse of the US dollar. Whatever the truth behind the policy change, Chase really needs to publicly explain its reasoning in order to quell the speculation.
www.infowars.com...
BTW--what is up with the Chase putting the Iraqi $250 dinar on this letter?
Is it just me, or is this reference to the Tower of Babel a bit strange?
The Tower of Babel (on $250 Iraqi dinar)
edit on 16-10-2013 by wasaka because: (no reason given)
ColonelCarter
reply to post by VforVendettea
Please explain. How does this directly affect Mexico?
The Mexican citizens cross our border illegally. Some of them find work, and many of them send their earnings back to Mexico. Those earnings have added up to nearly $17 billion in the past year. Remittances, as they're called, are expected to become Mexico's primary source of income this year, surpassing the amount of money that Mexico makes on oil exports for the first time ever.
transcripts.cnn.com...
Update from infowars:
www.infowars.com...
Earlier this month it was also reported that two of the biggest banks in America were stuffing their ATMs with 20-30 per cent more cash than usual in order to head off a potential bank run if the US defaults on its debt.
See: www.zerohedge.com...
Perhaps the great american take-down is in progress. 18-19th october is a key date for some reason. Look for not one false-flag, but many.... Way back in July 2010 on ZeroHedge, Bruce Krasting did a great piece on the age-old Wall Street story, on how the US Fed and government might suddenly be very motivated to replace all the current currency notes, with 'red money' that is already printed, waiting at Federal Reserve Banks ... making all the 'green money' notes held all around the world, invalid within 90 days or so...
brucekrasting.com...
www.infowars.com...
October 16, 2013
UPDATE: Chase Bank confirmed to Infowars that all business account holders were being subjected to these new regulations. They indicated that customers would have to pay a fee on every dollar withdrawn over the limit. Given that even a relatively small grocery store or restaurant is likely to turnover more than $50k a month in cash payments, this appears to be part of a wider move to shut down businesses who mainly deal in cash. Chase told us customers would have to upgrade to much more expensive accounts to avoid the capital controls, meaning larger corporations will not be affected. The bottom line is that banks think your money is their money and will do everything in their power to prevent you from withdrawing it in large quantities.
Earlier this month it was also reported that two of the biggest banks in America were stuffing their ATMs with 20-30 per cent more cash than usual in order to head off a potential bank run if the US defaults on its debt.
See: www.zerohedge.com...
Perhaps the great american take-down is in progress. 18-19th october is a key date for some reason. Look for not one false-flag, but many.... Way back in July 2010 on ZeroHedge, Bruce Krasting did a great piece on the age-old Wall Street story, on how the US Fed and government might suddenly be very motivated to replace all the current currency notes, with 'red money' that is already printed, waiting at Federal Reserve Banks ... making all the 'green money' notes held all around the world, invalid within 90 days or so...
brucekrasting.com...
Ameilia
reply to post by FyreByrd
This story has been picked up by Drudge Report. Unfortunately, the link there leads to infowars, however there is a scan of a letter from Chase (supposedly) which ALSO states withdraws are going to be limited. To 50k, which is a rather large limit to normal folks, BUT STILL.
Here is the link: infowars.
Thanks for starting this thread when you did and giving us all a heads up.
Yes that was another 'condition' change made in the same letter.
Please - Everyone stop the insanity. Good grief.
The conditions in the letter, as the copy of the letter shown in the Info Wars article shows, states quite clearly that you can send wires internationally at any local retail Chase bank branch.
They are restricting Business Savings Accounts from sending International Wires, which makes perfect sense. A Savings account is supposed to have - by regulatory standards - minimal activity in the account, with no more than roughly 6 transfers out of the account in any given month. That is why they call it a Savings Account - Hello?
A Business Savings Account is not a Business Checking Account. There is nothing in the letter that states that you cannot send international wires from a Business Checking Account that doesn't pay interest.
The second letter shown is reflecting that certain select Business Checking Accounts that pay interest - just as Savings Accounts pay interest - cannot have outgoing wires sent internationally either.
What's the point?
Savings and Checking Accounts that pay interest are not being permitted to send international wires. Instead, you have to have a traditional Business Checking Account in order to send wires. They are basically saying we are not going to allow clients to send funds internationally from a Savings Account or an Interest-Bearing Checking Account - These have to be sent from a traditional, non-interest bearing Business Checking Account.
Interest-bearing Checking Accounts are typically used for small businesses that have a large deposit balance - $100,000 or more, for example - and little activity in the account aside from paying annual real estate taxes, for example. They are basically Savings Accounts with some limited check writing privileges.
If you own a business, your main Operating Business Checking Account is where you pay all of your bills, and pay all of your expenses. It is where you make your deposits --- in cash, check, credit card receivables, etc. It is the account that has the most activity in it, and it doesn't earn interest. This is the actual checking account where Chase is directing their clients to send their international wires.
Why? Because some clients, unaware of how checking and savings accounts actually work, use their Savings Accounts like a Checking Account. Chase is saying - No, you need to use the right account for the appropriate type of transactional activity in the account - Banking 101.
As far as limiting the cash that clients can withdraw, this is being done to prevent money laundering and financing of terrorism, and similar illegal activities. Cash businesses are notorious fronts for mobsters, and all kinds of criminals. If someone doesn't like the rules laid out by Chase, they can bank elsewhere, as there are plenty of smaller banks that will gladly take on this business. Chase doesn't want the reputation risk of banking mobsters.
The number of businesses that withdraws and/or deposits $50,000 in cash in any given month is about .001% of all small businesses. So the real impact is minimal.
Please, stop the fear mongering. Good grief.
The conditions in the letter, as the copy of the letter shown in the Info Wars article shows, states quite clearly that you can send wires internationally at any local retail Chase bank branch.
They are restricting Business Savings Accounts from sending International Wires, which makes perfect sense. A Savings account is supposed to have - by regulatory standards - minimal activity in the account, with no more than roughly 6 transfers out of the account in any given month. That is why they call it a Savings Account - Hello?
A Business Savings Account is not a Business Checking Account. There is nothing in the letter that states that you cannot send international wires from a Business Checking Account that doesn't pay interest.
The second letter shown is reflecting that certain select Business Checking Accounts that pay interest - just as Savings Accounts pay interest - cannot have outgoing wires sent internationally either.
What's the point?
Savings and Checking Accounts that pay interest are not being permitted to send international wires. Instead, you have to have a traditional Business Checking Account in order to send wires. They are basically saying we are not going to allow clients to send funds internationally from a Savings Account or an Interest-Bearing Checking Account - These have to be sent from a traditional, non-interest bearing Business Checking Account.
Interest-bearing Checking Accounts are typically used for small businesses that have a large deposit balance - $100,000 or more, for example - and little activity in the account aside from paying annual real estate taxes, for example. They are basically Savings Accounts with some limited check writing privileges.
If you own a business, your main Operating Business Checking Account is where you pay all of your bills, and pay all of your expenses. It is where you make your deposits --- in cash, check, credit card receivables, etc. It is the account that has the most activity in it, and it doesn't earn interest. This is the actual checking account where Chase is directing their clients to send their international wires.
Why? Because some clients, unaware of how checking and savings accounts actually work, use their Savings Accounts like a Checking Account. Chase is saying - No, you need to use the right account for the appropriate type of transactional activity in the account - Banking 101.
As far as limiting the cash that clients can withdraw, this is being done to prevent money laundering and financing of terrorism, and similar illegal activities. Cash businesses are notorious fronts for mobsters, and all kinds of criminals. If someone doesn't like the rules laid out by Chase, they can bank elsewhere, as there are plenty of smaller banks that will gladly take on this business. Chase doesn't want the reputation risk of banking mobsters.
The number of businesses that withdraws and/or deposits $50,000 in cash in any given month is about .001% of all small businesses. So the real impact is minimal.
Please, stop the fear mongering. Good grief.
edit on 16-10-2013 by CookieMonster09 because: (no reason given)
CookieMonster09
The number of businesses that withdraws and/or deposits $50,000 in cash in any given month is about .001% of all small businesses. So the real impact is minimal.
We are a small business that buys used large equipment, re-certify/add warranty, then resell.
We don't bank with Chase, but a $50,000 limit on deposits/withdrawals would crush us. We buy and sell farm and construction equipment. Every month we buy at least one truck or tractor for well over $50,000 CASH.
The incentive for us to use cash is that many farmers and construction companies want cash and will sell cheaper to cash buyers. Evidently, those banking with Chase will need to store large amounts of cash in house or with a separate bank.
On average we make between 3% to 10% on our buying and selling. While we deal in large purchases, we are not millionaires, many times our purchases rely on selling an inventory at a loss to come up with cash to purchase an item we know there's demand for and a markup to be made.
I guess we are part of your .001%; but I would think most medium size businesses withdrawal more than $50,000 every 30 days; especially those businesses (though rare but they still do exist believe it or not) that pay their employees in CASH.
edit on 17-10-2013 by GenerationGap
because: (no reason given)
CookieMonster09
Please - Everyone stop the insanity. Good grief.
The conditions in the letter, as the copy of the letter shown in the Info Wars article shows, states quite clearly that you can send wires internationally at any local retail Chase bank branch.
They are restricting Business Savings Accounts from sending International Wires, which makes perfect sense. A Savings account is supposed to have - by regulatory standards - minimal activity in the account, with no more than roughly 6 transfers out of the account in any given month. That is why they call it a Savings Account - Hello?
A Business Savings Account is not a Business Checking Account. There is nothing in the letter that states that you cannot send international wires from a Business Checking Account that doesn't pay interest.
You are wrong - the letters I recieved were for Business Checking accounts.
reply to post by ColonelCarter
I read that about a third of mexicos economy is dependant on money sent from relatives living and working in the US.
I read that about a third of mexicos economy is dependant on money sent from relatives living and working in the US.
You are wrong - the letters I recieved were for Business Checking accounts.
The accounts that are impacted are the plain vanilla Basic Business Checking, Business Checking With Interest, and Business Savings Accounts.
If you want to send wires, you have to pay for them, and you have to upgrade your account to a more robust Business Checking Account platform. From the Forbes article, "No, JPM Isn't Banning International Wire Transfers, No Limits on Withdrawals Either", dated 10/17/2013, by reporter Halah Touryalai:
"Upgrade to Chase’s Performance Business Checking and there’s no cash activity limit. Plus, you get two domestic wires transfers per month at no charge and international wires are available for an additional fee. Of course, there’s a $20 monthly fee that’s waived if you can maintain $50,000 balance."
Chase wants higher deposit balances from their clients. This is smart business, especially considering the higher capital costs required now with Basel III capital regulations.
It actually costs a bank to maintain bank accounts that have negligible deposit balances. On average, it can cost a bank $300-500 per year or more in operating expenses to maintain a checking account that might only have $100 in it.
Ask any Business Owner, and they will tell you that they typically have a multitude of banking options available to them, as the banking industry is flooded with all kinds of competition for their deposit accounts - local banks, regional banks, even credit unions solicit for these deposits.
Please stop the smear campaign that Chase is not permitting Small Business Owners from sending international wires. It's not true. Chase is trying to limit their reputation and operational risk, boost their capital reserves due to regulatory pressure, and earn a profit at the same time.
We don't bank with Chase, but a $50,000 limit on deposits/withdrawals would crush us. We buy and sell farm and construction equipment. Every month we buy at least one truck or tractor for well over $50,000 CASH.
Listen, I hear you. This is definitely a rarity, and would qualify as the .001%. Carrying this kind of cash around on one's person is an invitation to get robbed, and has to be done discreetly.
Businesses are moving towards more electronic forms of payment. Writing checks open your main operating account up to check fraud if the wrong identity thief gets a copy of the check. Cash is easily stolen, by thieves or criminal employees, and difficult to track when lost. If debit card fraud occurs, the criminals are tapping your main checking account.
Again, the trend for many small business owners is electronic currency, especially credit cards. We are fast becoming a cashless society. This is not to say that other forms of payment have gone away, just that the trend is cashless.
The incentive for us to use cash is that many farmers and construction companies want cash and will sell cheaper to cash buyers. Evidently, those banking with Chase will need to store large amounts of cash in house or with a separate bank.
It becomes a non-traceable transaction to the IRS as well, which makes the parties involved unaccountable for tax reporting purposes. This is where regulators and law enforcement get nervous. Unfortunately, cash transactions place legitimate companies in the same limelight as drug dealers, thugs, and terrorists. Right or wrong, it is what it is.
I guess we are part of your .001%; but I would think most medium size businesses withdrawal more than $50,000 every 30 days; especially those businesses (though rare but they still do exist believe it or not) that pay their employees in CASH.
Your business is rare in the amount of cash being utilized for purchases. Some businesses have high cash volumes, mainly gas stations, grocery stores, and convenience/liquor stores. Most businesses are not this cash-intensive.
Chase is usually out front of the banking industry when it comes to regulatory matters. As a huge bank, they are also under a ton of media scrutiny. They don't want their name in the papers associated with criminal enterprises that use cash to hide their activities. The loss of even legitimate cash businesses is a drop in the bucket for them.
When the Patriot Act was passed, Chase exited a lot of the small businesses that issue Money Orders and Western Union for individual customers, due to the volume of alleged terrorist-related funding that was happening nationwide through these cash delivery channels. They were one of the first banks to exit these businesses.
Again, when you have employers paying employees in cash, you are talking about concerns from an IRS tax reporting perspective.
edit on
17-10-2013 by CookieMonster09 because: (no reason given)