grandmasters day was great

I recently went to grandmasters day at my local lodge and I really enjoyed it.The food was great even though I was a tad skeptical of the sausage after hearing about twisted rituals involving gay sex but I immediately dismissed those claims as nonsense and refused to let it ruin my meal.I went hoping to see and hear things that would dismiss the more serious claims I've heard about freemasonry.At first things seemed to be heading that way.The people were really nice and I could not believe how much this had to cost (they basically feed and entertain an entire town for a day).I was even more surprised to see people I know sporting masonic garb.But a few things really stuck out at me like the huge obsession with alters.These men clearly made no personal sacrifices not a single one drove a cheap car,or had an ugly wife or dressed on a budget. Whats the deal here.the main thing was the titles these men hold grand worshipful master???????knight of the brazen serpent????????master counselor????intendent of the building????inspector general???come on guys what do you really do at the lodge???? have bake sales??????

How...uninteresting. Yet another vague assault on Masons.

Guess what? If you go to a Microsoft party, you might find the same thing regarding clothes, cars, or money. So what? I have seen the same things outside the local Mormon Temple or JCofLDS Church. Again I say, so what?

If you want to twist your mind to see some big conspiracy there, then I think you're fishing a bit too hard.

It's a big day for them. Of course they will dress up and such. What did you expect? Beater Honda's and some ratty jeans?

Now, personally...I'm thinking this is not even a conspiracy and bound for the trash bin.

ok you got me of course they dress up for it,but do they buy new cars for it?If they can afford to do that then sign me up ,but you fail to (as im sure you often do) to answer any of the better questions.whats with the alters and creepy titles?Im sure that somewhere within your vast amount of knowledge you can at least make a feeblehearted attempt to "enlighten" me with a reply on that.responses that pull a sub-topic that is vague do not make the entire posting vague.Its far too easy and weak to cut out the meat of my posting and base your laughable reply on a mere whim.or is this indeed a poor attempt at write-off (that has no substance)by the way didnt i see your name on the terror watch list?

With tactless posts like yours, I doubt you'll get any reply.

Originally posted by guitarlegend79
ok you got me of course they dress up for it,but do they buy new cars for it?If they can afford to do that then sign me up ,but you fail to (as im sure you often do) to answer any of the better questions.whats with the alters and creepy titles?Im sure that somewhere within your vast amount of knowledge you can at least make a feeblehearted attempt to "enlighten" me with a reply on that.responses that pull a sub-topic that is vague do not make the entire posting vague.Its far too easy and weak to cut out the meat of my posting and base your laughable reply on a mere whim.or is this indeed a poor attempt at write-off (that has no substance)by the way didnt i see your name on the terror watch list?

Ahhh, how highbrow of you. Complete with the back-handed insults about my intelligence or me being a terrorist. Is that the best you have? I'm suprised you didn't insult my spelling or grammer too.

Do you really need "enlightened" in the subject of titles and altars? I could say that every church has an altar, every church/business/government/boy scout troop/Halo 2 person has a title. So what?

You are correct, it was easy to "cut the meat" out of your post because there was none. What's the point? Oooh, the Masons have titles? Oh my, they have an altar. Most people have something like that in their worship from crosses (burning ones if you're KKK), buddas, temples, druid rocks, stonehenge, etc, etc...

One more big...so what?

If you want to point out low substance, then raise your hand. What's the big conspiracy? They drive nice cars and dress well? My my, the grand conspiracy. I guess my nice clothes and new car make me some big conspiracy as well?

Now I have heard it all. Owning a new car makes you a member of the NWO.

Originally posted by guitarlegend79
I recently *SNIP*

Originally posted by guitarlegend79
ok you got me *SNIP*

Welcome to ATS guitarlegend79, I'm sure you will find it to be a rewarding and informative discussion board in which to participate. I couldn�t help but notice a slight bias, a negative preconception if you will, towards Freemasonry. Your innuendo and antagonistic rhetoric is nothing new or unusual here. Seems like there�s always a new member who would like to expound upon the mysteries of the Craft (as with all non-Masons, you are infinitely more aware of the intimate details regarding Freemasonry), you are not unique, nor is any of your baseless accusations grounded in truth. Persist if you must, I always think that �Deny Ignorance� goes hand in hand with another adage: Practice, practice, practice�

Batting Practice Monkeys, not just for home run records anymore�

ltd602, Z (abbr) or mirthful me answer any of my questions rather than criticize them.if i must spell them out for you yet again then i shall
1.-what is with the alters?do your best to put a positive spin on this
2.-what does it mean to be knight of the brazen serpent?(this really is a masonic degree)
3.-why the need for so much secrecy when there is nothing to hide??
i do have more questions but this is enough for now.please note that there is a very good chance that i have spent more time at a masonic lodge than most of you.also note that so far i truly consider most of what i hear about these men to be false ,and i take almost none of it seriously.(some of the nicest guys i know are masons)these things just jump out at me

Originally posted by guitarlegend79

1.-what is with the alters?do your best to put a positive spin on this

The Altar is where the Three Great Lights of Masonry rest during Masonic meetings. The Great Lights of Masonry are the Holy Bible, Square, and Compass. These Great Lights are also technically referred to as the "Furniture", i.e., without them, a Lodge is not furnished and cannot open. The Altar is furnished by the Senior Deacon in the Ceremony of Opening.

2.-what does it mean to be knight of the brazen serpent?(this really is a masonic degree)

Knight of the Brazen Serpent is the 25� of Scottish Rite Masonry. To be one, it simply means that a Brother Mason possesses that degree.
Originally, the degree was based on the biblical story of Moses constructing a brazen serpent in the wilderness, which healed the afflicted Israelites that gazed upon it. In the Southern Jurisdiction of the Rite, the ritual was revised by Brother Albert Pike, and eliminated most references to the biblical Brazen Serpent story, focusing instead on the philosophy of an oriental sect called the Druses.

3.-why the need for so much secrecy when there is nothing to hide??

As you can see from this forum, and thousands of websites, "Masonic secrecy" is very much a myth. Masons are happy to share their experience in, and love of, our fraternity. The "secret society" label was acquired long ago when Freemasons were persecuted; in free, democratic nations, Freemasonry exists openly.

Fiat Lvx.

i am not surprised to see that when i ask the questions in direct format i get no response.It seems as though you fellows can only respond to questions in an assault format.but this doesnt get me answers it only gets me half assed responses.i see a large number of members who are obviously masons surely you guys can enlighten me on these matters concerning the "craft" note: pleas for answers does not equate with suggestive statements or bullying.refer to the previous posting for the questions

Originally posted by guitarlegend79
i am not surprised to see that when i ask the questions in direct format i get no response.

Isn't that what I just did?

ML said ��in free, democratic nations, Freemasonry exists openly.��

Wait a minute, wait a minute. Exist is such a limited term. Prisons exist, national secrets exist, banks exist- masonry veils itself in allegory. Exactly what this means depends on the question and the participants. Many societies, including the KKK, NAAWP, NAACP, NASA and the rest have secrets- most will at least admit they have secrets as the Masons do also.

Masonry is more like an inoculation against the virus of self-development or determination, wouldn't you agree? Being part of masonry is like being part of something bigger than ones self I've been told.

If you are a joiner, like to confab with other middle-class folks, got some spare time and money, don't mind wearing an apron on occasion and have no real religious connections then masonry will probably be for you. You will; meet other decent people, help each other in business, not engage in political discussions in lodge other than the accidental mention of Bro. So and So running for office, get some decent food from time to time and learn to avoid lodge meetings because they are so repetitious and boring. Further, you can wear large gaudy rings, go in to the Shrine and get to ride a mini-bike, dress like an Arab and use really fanciful titles and wear even wilder jewelry.

Then, you can hang out on forums like this one and spout well-meaning platitudes and make fun of those that do not belong.

Space, being at a premium, I don't want to hog the whole thread with the positive aspects of masonry so I'll close- for now.

Originally posted by guitarlegend79
i am not surprised to see that when i ask the questions in direct format i get no response.It seems as though you fellows can only respond to questions in an assault format.but this doesnt get me answers it only gets me half assed responses.i see a large number of members who are obviously masons surely you guys can enlighten me on these matters concerning the "craft" note: pleas for answers does not equate with suggestive statements or bullying.refer to the previous posting for the questions

Well, this post came 7 minutes after the post answering your questions. As even I am not that slow a typer, with about 4 fingers, it leads me to one of two equations.

1- you're not reading the responses, therefore a point troll.
2- looking to trouble members, a regular troll.

Neither are welcome here. Do you have any further questions?

---delete----

[edit on 15-11-2004 by LTD602]

Originally posted by PublicGadfly
ML said ��in free, democratic nations, Freemasonry exists openly.��

Wait a minute, wait a minute. Exist is such a limited term. Prisons exist, national secrets exist, banks exist- masonry veils itself in allegory. Exactly what this means depends on the question and the participants. Many societies, including the KKK, NAAWP, NAACP, NASA and the rest have secrets- most will at least admit they have secrets as the Masons do also.

So, I guess your point would be...?

Masonry is more like an inoculation against the virus of self-development or determination, wouldn't you agree?

not at all, quite the opposite, and I am surprised that you write this, being as we have endlessly refuted this particular bit on nonsense. Masonry is quintessentially about SELF DEVELOPMENT, being, as it were, the goal of making a good man better...

Being part of masonry is like being part of something bigger than ones self I've been told.

If you are a joiner, like to confab with other middle-class folks, got some spare time and money, don't mind wearing an apron on occasion and have no real religious connections

This last bit is totally incorrect. Masonry REQUIRES a faith in g-d before on can be a member, and most members have real, specific, religious connections to various churches, including the RCC and SBC.. so this is just a throw away salnder.

... then masonry will probably be for you. You will; meet other decent people, help each other in business, not engage in political discussions in lodge other than the accidental mention of Bro. So and So running for office, get some decent food from time to time and learn to avoid lodge meetings because they are so repetitious and boring. Further, you can wear large gaudy rings, go in to the Shrine and get to ride a mini-bike, dress like an Arab and use really fanciful titles and wear even wilder jewelry.

and learn to be a better man through the study and inculcation of moral truths... you forgot that part...

Then, you can hang out on forums like this one and spout well-meaning platitudes and make fun of those that do not belong.

No, we make fun of people that seem deliberately obtuse and that persist in posting lies and deceptions...

Folks that ask real questions instead of trying to spread malicious bovine fertilizer are treated to honest and respectful answers.


by the way, is this what a Public Gadfly looks like?




[edit on 11/15/04 by theron dunn]

Originally posted by guitarlegend79
1.-what is with the alters?do your best to put a positive spin on this
2.-what does it mean to be knight of the brazen serpent?(this really is a masonic degree)
3.-why the need for so much secrecy when there is nothing to hide??

I like the question aspect, and I'm sure many here could answer those. Would they answer to your satisfaction? I doubt it.

In question 1, the comment of "put a positive spin on this" speaks openly about your negative thoughts on the matter of alters. I suppose you think they sacrifice children or some such thing. Whatever that case, it is simply no different than many other groups have. Perhaps you don't see that. Some cheerleading organizations have a "spirit stick" but I can assure you...no spirits are being trapped using such an object.

Question 2 is about a title. Someone I know is a Controller. That is his title. I can assure you that thousands of companies have such a title. Just think about that one.

Question 3 is regarding secrets. If Microsoft's Windows code has nothing to hide, why is it a secret? Why do KKK members (or former members) not speak up to defend their group? The answer is that there are secrets in this world. The is just the way it is. You keep your identity a secret, right? If there is nothing to fear, then feel free to post you name, address, and phone number.

I think you get the idea.

As for comments about not jumping to answer you, well...that is my secret, but let me just say I have a life outside ATS as well.

As for one of the more recent posts states:

Further, you can wear large gaudy rings, go in to the Shrine and get to ride a mini-bike, dress like an Arab and use really fanciful titles and wear even wilder jewelry.

Just what is involved in "dress like an Arab". Such an interesting comment...

Originally posted by PublicGadfly
Masonry is more like an inoculation against the virus of self-development or determination, wouldn't you agree? Being part of masonry is like being part of something bigger than ones self I've been told.

I would say that the exact opposite is true. That's the whole point in not requiring any specific political or religious doctrines in candidates, as well as the whole point of conferring degrees that teach the principles of contradictory viewpoints: it is designed to encourage the candidate to think for himself, rather than just take the majority opinion on everything, as is usually the case in the profane world.

Masonry celebrates individuality, instead of the herd mentality. And this is also the reason is has been, and continues to be, the subject of persecution from the religious/political herd.

Fiat Lvx.

despite my gross lack of enlightenment i happen to notice that most of the moderators are masons.this really should come as no surprise as sonics love to dominate all that they survey.However i must use this oppurtunity to thank masonic light for doing just as i had asked.your works will probably earn you a seat right beside the great architect of the universe.now on to the holy bible thing isnt it considered blasphemous to change the word of god ex.-masonic bible??and also please clarify the religous aspect of freemasonry.there seems to be so much double talk about just how religous this benevelont organization really is.ex.-were not a religous organization,but we use the bible and many other facets of various religions.it is a sonic requirement to believe in one god....but you have so many ie-baal,osiris,isis,jabulon,great architect and even good ol hiram. your enlightenment is much appreciated please continue.

Can't speak for Zedd but I'm not a Mason. I'm just looking at a disruption in my forums that contribute nothing to the site. Doesn't take a Physics major to see where the problem is.

Originally posted by guitarlegend79
despite my gross lack of enlightenment i happen to notice that most of the moderators are masons.this really should come as no surprise as sonics love to dominate all that they survey.However i must use this oppurtunity to thank masonic light for doing just as i had asked.your works will probably earn you a seat right beside the great architect of the universe.now on to the holy bible thing isnt it considered blasphemous to change the word of god ex.-masonic bible??and also please clarify the religous aspect of freemasonry.there seems to be so much double talk about just how religous this benevelont organization really is.ex.-were not a religous organization,but we use the bible and many other facets of various religions.it is a sonic requirement to believe in one god....but you have so many ie-baal,osiris,isis,jabulon,great architect and even good ol hiram. your enlightenment is much appreciated please continue.

Why would all ther mods be Masons?? Because they tell the likes of YOU to take it easy with your insults and sarcasm?

Sonic?? What do you mean, lol ??

With your attitude and incredibly poor manners, I don't see why any Mason should take the time to answer you. In fact, I urge all Masons to simply ignore you.

You are a TROLL. A uh . . . . "sonic troll." ROFL.

Originally posted by LTD602


Sonic?? What do you mean, lol ??

LTD, I'm guessing this KID is refering to: