Nick Redfern: 'UFOs then and now'

Nick Redfern has an article up at Mysterious Universe that's a follow-up to a previous piece about how the classic UFO phenomena is a thing of the past. From his article:

we simply do not get anywhere near the numbers and percentages of so-called “classic” cases of years and decades gone by. Yes, every now and again there is a case like Stephenville, Texas, but in the 1940s, 1950s and 1960s such events were most assuredly not of the “every now and again” kind. They were all over the place – like a nasty rash!

I guess I didn't realize there were sightings in such great frequency (guess I'm a newb to this stuff), but I have noticed that the saucers seem to have come and gone; which were followed by black triangles that also seem to have gone away. Now the sightings seem to be plain weird -- space jellyfish and what-not.

Ya, I am generalizing and there are rare exceptions. But I am curious what others make of this. Have various extraterrestrial races arrived, seen, and then left? Or are UFOs government top-secret projects; and if so, will the USAF be using space-jellyfish vehicles at some point?

reply to post by mother1138


There are only two types of physical craft labelled as a ufo(others are anomalies)

First: humans; saucer triangle whatever
Second: Angels, their is variation depending on whether it's the Elohiym, cherubim, or God himself

reply to post by mother1138


I agree with him , it does seem there were more UFO reports in the 40's 50's 60's and some good quality ones at that . is that because ET were here in those decades and now they aren't or is it because our Tech is so much better now and the average persons knowledge of Tech is is superior to our forebears ?

I'm unsure but I hope it's the former , although I fear it may be the latter .

i think it's because, like us, their technology improves over time. i've seen ufo's disappear into thin air so i'm guessing their "cloaking" technology got good and we simply don't see as many as we used to.

Nick Redfern will say just about anything to keep himself relevant in the UFO community. And quite frankly, who cares what Nick Redfern has to say? All he does is bundle wikipedia articles about UFOs into new books and somehow gets them published. Seriously, Redferns books read like poorly written blog postings with questionable sources. Just about everything he writes he claims that his information is from FOIA documents that were previously secret. Yeah Nick, that's just about everything in this field. It's all available with one quick Google search.

Redfern and his cohorts, namely Greg Bishop (who?) and Paul Kimball like to think of themselves as authorities on the UFO subject but they don't know much. They just squawk at each other via there respective podcasts and interview each other all in a bid to sell their brand name which is what ever they are peddling at the moment. Kimball just came out with some nonsense that the UFO phenomenon is the universe trying to express itself through art. HUH??? I mean, really, huh? Bishop has said that he doesn't care if Bill Moore and Richard Doty are complete liars and frauds, he thinks it makes things interesting, his clear admiration for Jim Moseley and his hoaxter ways are showing.

ladyteeny
i think it's because, like us, their technology improves over time. i've seen ufo's disappear into thin air so i'm guessing their "cloaking" technology got good and we simply don't see as many as we used to.

"us" is 'them".

many old UFO's were U-2, CORONA, etc, and there were more rocket launches & satellites and more secrecy about them.

Today, optical stealth. They "disappear" into thin air as an optical illusion.

mother1138

I guess I didn't realize there were sightings in such great frequency (guess I'm a newb to this stuff), but I have noticed that the saucers seem to have come and gone; which were followed by black triangles that also seem to have gone away..

Still some extremely puzzling cases on record such as Holland Michigan, Bariloche, Stephenville, Gosford, Trumbull County etc.. but I think he's right about the decline in the frequency of reports since the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's -maybe it's down to lots of different factors.

FlyingTeacup

who cares what Nick Redfern has to say?

Well I did think this was an interesting article by him about early flying triangle reports.

Flying Triangles: Not “Secret Aircraft”

mbkennel

many old UFO's were U-2, CORONA, etc

You may have missed this reply to a similar post of yours but that opinion is pretty questionable.

Post

Cheers.

People simply don't report what they see to the authorities as they used to for any number of reasons. in the last year I've personally had 3 "you're yanking my chain" level UFO incidents that have occurred in the last 3-4 years and when I asked why they didn't report them the answer was a resounding/ "What for and to who?"

One case I dealt with about 5 years ago, the people involved were security guards at work. The military arrived during the sighting and wouldn't even let them drive home in their own transport. The 2 witnesses were taken home in an army vehicle and their cars delivered and left some hours later outside their houses.

A couple of months ago, a guy I've known for a short while in a professional capacity calmly announced. "Oh, my dad shot at some unknown creature lurking in the bushes after a load of weird lights had been seen for 3 nights running round where he lives"

He'd been out shooting rabbits when he saw another bunch of strange lights as he was walking back along an old abandoned railway track. I'm currently trying to arrange a formal interview with the guy to put this all down on record.

In one case a guy described what he thought looked "Just like a shuttle from Star trek", vanish into a spiral that opened up in the sky. When I asked.... "So you didn't think that weird?" he said... "I just assumed it was some secret government project was only later I realised it probably wasn't". His sighting was that clear he thought he could see a sort of "tiled" finish in the surface of the "craft".

There's also the interesting fact that, in a couple of cases people have just flat out said to me. "It really isn't the sort of thing I'd talk to my mates or family about however, I know you won't think I'm nuts".

What I would say is this. These are not just "lights in the sky" sightings, these were detailed objects that people saw pretty close up or, in enough detail to see they were not a normal known air-frame.

Right up until the end of the 80s most people simply didn't know anyone who was "into all that weird stuff" so had a tendency to approach the authorities. I suspect, many now speak to their mate who are "into all that stuff" and that's that. Most people I've spoken to this last decade or so, are happy to have someone listen and take them seriously about what happened, when asked, they have no wish to "go public" and make a formal report about it .

I suspect, this last 2 decades we have seen a paradigm shift in the zeitgeist of the West in particular where, many people for whatever social and conditioning reasons, just see "truly weird sights" in the sky and just think. "Well I always suspected there was something to it, it's no big deal". Where that breaks down would seem to be where a sighting is "socially diverse" in its' nature. When a sighting involves non family or friends I suspect it is then that people feel more of need to report it officially as they seek a sort of solace in numbers along the lines of; "Well it wasn't just me who saw it, others did and reported it ergo, I'm not nuts, so I will go on the record about it as well".

That said, the last figures I've seen for UFO reports now runs at about a steady 70,000 a year, worldwide.

FireMoon
That said, the last figures I've seen for UFO reports now runs at about a steady 70,000 a year, worldwide.

Every single night ive looked up in the sky since I started believing in God ive seen a good few lights from very far out, that can move faster than the eye can keep on and usually just bounce up and down when I look at them.

I believe it to be the elohiym, and I think they can hear me when I speak even from a large distance cos they always make movement when I ask things like "Am I fine now or should I convert to Islam?" but I've read alot of UFO stuff and alot of them seem to be different from what I see.

It's either angels or some stars have the ability to shoot up into the sky diagonally:p

There has been without a doubt a reduction of what we would call "classic" UFO cases. Perhaps the Cold War has something to do with that. From the end of World War II until the early 1990s I think we can say that some UFO stories were almost certainly cover stories for the military and the space programs going on either side of the Iron Curtain.

The 1950s and into the 1960s was also a time when a lot of claims were made about human like visitors from space who would land and start speaking to seemingly random people about their concerns for our development. These aliens then slowly morphed into little grey beings who sneaked people away from their beds at night and conducted sinister experiments. We don't hear much about these encounters with aliens at all in the present day, even abduction stories seem to have died down now as well.

It could be that the aliens work is done here? Maybe, just like we did with the moon, they feel there is nothing to see here any more and don't bother coming back? Maybe they were actually the remnants of a race that existed in our own solar system and have died out, disappeared, or moved on? Or perhaps like some else said their technology is simply much better at hiding them.

Or it could be that there is a conscious effort to suppress any really exciting UFO contact stories by the military, aviation authorities and global media (much of which is now in the hands of a few huge corporations) for whatever reasons they have.

Of course it is just as likely that we are dealing with a number of phenomena, alien spacecraft playing only a small part of something, that is plainly weird and beyond our current understanding.

mbkennel

Today, optical stealth. They "disappear" into thin air as an optical illusion.

edit on 11-10-2013 by mbkennel because: (no reason given)

About your optical stealth theory, I came across a commercial by a german car brand (won't tell which brand, but it s not hard to find),where they covered one of their car with flexible LED panels on a side, and shoot the surroundings from the opposite side with a famous HD camera. Then they screen on the LED panels what they shoot in order to make the car "invisible" or morphed into the environment. I wonder if the military got this technology, if yes, imagine how ahead they may be?...

Ok, I know that my explanations are perfectly confused, so searched for Invisible Drive commercial on the internet if you want to know more... I don't want to put a direct link cause it's a commercial and I don t know if it's violating the terms of ATS.

We could be hearing fewer reports now since it could be that we are now technologically more aware now, then compared to the 60's(obviously). Not only that, people didn't have cellphones back in the day, so a lack of convenience in photography could of been why there were sightings.

I don't think the sightings have stopped at all though, it just more discrete and subtle, people are to busy to even look up, although the odds still go against seeing one. I do remember seeing something in the news in 2009(or 2008), that there were at least 1000 UFO sightings in that year(I saw it on t.v).

What I do find puzzling is how, some of these craft are hardly identified at all, and when I mean identified, i don't mean knowing it specs or where it from, military or alien. Just description and physical details alone, would help bring a better way to identify them.

Whether it be foo fighters, black triangles, or a pale horse. The only that identifying is just word of mouth.

reply to post by mother1138


It could be that there are less people living in remote places now than fifty years ago. Not that UFOs are less frequent in urban areas, but 'urbanites' don't look up nearly as much as country folk, mostly because there is really nothing to look at - city lights dim out the stars. I live just outside of a large Canadian city, and some nights when there are no clouds to refract the city's lights, I'll spend a great deal of time admiring the skies. Something I never did when I was living within the city.
It may also be an economic thing. The last 20-30 years haven't been kind to regular people, even though the official 'statistics' show otherwise. When people are struggling, or under daily stress from modern jobs, they just don't care about things that don't matter in the immediate future.
One other thing - the media's portrayal of the subject may also be taking its toll. I know many people who wouldn't believe they saw something unexplainable if it were staring them in the face. We seem to believe that secret technology can explain any and all anomalous sightings.

Just had a question for the more knowledgeable of our community here:

The UFO reports back during the Cold War - could these people have been making the reports out of a sense of duty, in case these were Soviet craft? I find it doubtful that witnesses back then automatically assumed they were from out of this world.

reply to post by Irako


From what I heard, ether army thought the opposing had one of these craft in their inventory, but that theory was later dismissed for what ever reason.

reply to post by Specimen


Well, I was just curious what the intention of the witnesses were when they reported UFO sightings back then. There was definitely more of a sense of duty in the Cold War days, or so I've heard, so maybe the lack of trust in the Government nowadays can explain the fall in UFO reporting.

I've also stumbled upon cases from the 50-70s or 80s as much more frequent than today. I have read some people into the know, military. who claim there has been visitation during those periods and thus the more frequent sightings. The same claimed there is nothing 'dimensional' about them so you can put your ANGELS DEMONS .. you know where.

I don't remember the name of the person who claimed that, as I don't think he ever came on TV which showed he's not one of the average 'let's get famous from the UFO topic'.

I have a feeling that the way the UFO-phenomena presented itself during the years has indeed changed, from the classic UFO, to the greys and later on the triangle shaped UFO's. However, I have no data to back up that feeling. It would be interesting if we have a source or database, where we can statistically get things in perspective.

For another interpretation as to why these things seem to morphe (if they indeed do); it might be that the way we interpret and culturally embed these stories, will actually influence and shape the phenomena itself. The author Jeffrey Kripal has written on this subject quite extensively.

ladyteeny
i think it's because, like us, their technology improves over time. i've seen ufo's disappear into thin air so i'm guessing their "cloaking" technology got good and we simply don't see as many as we used to.

Very well said that is my conclusion also. There's probably more now but they cloak and we simply cannot see them. Which begs another thread as to why?

saucerprobe

ladyteeny
i think it's because, like us, their technology improves over time. i've seen ufo's disappear into thin air so i'm guessing their "cloaking" technology got good and we simply don't see as many as we used to.

Very well said that is my conclusion also. There's probably more now but they cloak and we simply cannot see them. Which begs another thread as to why?

Because the drivers are humans.